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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689



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UName


Member Since: Tue Mar 10, 2015
Posts: 342




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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689


Too late!!!!

Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,193




    Quote:
    Too late!!!!



    Quote:
    Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!


That comment perfectly encapsulates this board. Bravo.



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BMarvel


Member Since: Fri Nov 17, 2017
Posts: 50


Looks like the Hulk survived if he’s on cover 15?
I’m always confused by Galactus having a skull as an energy being??
A few more battle panels would’ve been nice.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,752


Well the mindset of a few of them at any rate




Look Raist bunnies...
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:
    Too late!!!!



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    Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!


Then I guess Odin is too since Odin gave Thanos a good beating when they fought. Pretty good for someone you call a weakling, eh?

Anyway, this whole story is set in an alternate future so is hardly canonical. Also, we don't see in detail how Thanos beat all these cosmic beings. Given his history, the far more likely explanation is he obtained yet another item of supreme power to enhance himself rather than that he beat them under his own normal power displayed in regular continuity.



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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Too late!!!!

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!



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    Then I guess Odin is too since Odin gave Thanos a good beating when they fought. Pretty good for someone you call a weakling, eh?


This was a stronger Thanos who oneshots King Thor who has odinforce.


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    Anyway, this whole story is set in an alternate future so is hardly canonical. Also, we don't see in detail how Thanos beat all these cosmic beings. Given his history, the far more likely explanation is he obtained yet another item of supreme power to enhance himself rather than that he beat them under his own normal power displayed in regular continuity.


That's never shown and Thanos used black bolt to kill the celestials.

It's yet another terrible showing for Marvel cosmic hierarchy. No need for excuses.



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:

      Quote:

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        Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!
      Then I guess Odin is too since Odin gave Thanos a good beating when they fought. Pretty good for someone you call a weakling, eh?
    This was a stronger Thanos who oneshots King Thor who has odinforce.


First, the comic represents a series of fights with only one panel. That doesn't mean that was the entirety of the fight, so it's funny you interpret it that way. Second, you just admitted to what I was saying, that this Thanos is most likely powered up by some item of supreme power.


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      Anyway, this whole story is set in an alternate future so is hardly canonical. Also, we don't see in detail how Thanos beat all these cosmic beings. Given his history, the far more likely explanation is he obtained yet another item of supreme power to enhance himself rather than that he beat them under his own normal power displayed in regular continuity.
    That's never shown and Thanos used black bolt to kill the celestials.


That is never shown, but it is nevertheless highly likely. Again, this is an alternate future and is not in continuity.




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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Thanos is more powerful than Living Tribunal!!!!!
        Then I guess Odin is too since Odin gave Thanos a good beating when they fought. Pretty good for someone you call a weakling, eh?
      This was a stronger Thanos who oneshots King Thor who has odinforce.



    Quote:
    First, the comic represents a series of fights with only one panel. That doesn't mean that was the entirety of the fight, so it's funny you interpret it that way. Second, you just admitted to what I was saying, that this Thanos is most likely powered up by some item of supreme power.


He wasn't powered up. He just got stronger as he got older.

And yes, those were the fights but he is shown defeating everyone including King Thor easily.


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        Anyway, this whole story is set in an alternate future so is hardly canonical. Also, we don't see in detail how Thanos beat all these cosmic beings. Given his history, the far more likely explanation is he obtained yet another item of supreme power to enhance himself rather than that he beat them under his own normal power displayed in regular continuity.
      That's never shown and Thanos used black bolt to kill the celestials.



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    That is never shown, but it is nevertheless highly likely. Again, this is an alternate future and is not in continuity.


How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:
    He wasn't powered up. He just got stronger as he got older.


Not stated anywhere in the comic, but you do like to make things up.


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      That is never shown, but it is nevertheless highly likely. Again, this is an alternate future and is not in continuity.
    How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.


Alternate futures are by definition out of continuity. That's why they're called "ALTERNATE." *sigh*




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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689



    Quote:

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      He wasn't powered up. He just got stronger as he got older.



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    Not stated anywhere in the comic, but you do like to make things up.


You do like to lie so many times. And making things up is your specialty.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-udghku84b5I/WkR-Z-EuzKI/AAAAAAACs_M/zaZ8PymznwsdVBmE_8n5tpCCxpiEjnqYwCLcBGAs/s1600/71_006.jpg

"Thanos only grew stronger".


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        That is never shown, but it is nevertheless highly likely. Again, this is an alternate future and is not in continuity.
      How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.



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    Alternate futures are by definition out of continuity. That's why they're called "ALTERNATE." *sigh*



They are alternate realities and part of the multiverse. They are not out of continuity.



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:

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      Not stated anywhere in the comic, but you do like to make things up.
    You do like to lie so many times. And making things up is your specialty.



    Quote:
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-udghku84b5I/WkR-Z-EuzKI/AAAAAAACs_M/zaZ8PymznwsdVBmE_8n5tpCCxpiEjnqYwCLcBGAs/s1600/71_006.jpg



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    "Thanos only grew stronger".


Again, how he grew stronger is not stated in the comic. Given his past history, it's far more likely he grew stronger by obtaining outside power.


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        How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.
      Alternate futures are by definition out of continuity. That's why they're called "ALTERNATE." *sigh*
    They are alternate realities and part of the multiverse. They are not out of continuity.


Are you purposely being dense? When people talk about continuity, people are talking about the Prime Reality/616 Marvel Universe. By your definition, every What If? story is in continuity.





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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689



    Quote:

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        Not stated anywhere in the comic, but you do like to make things up.
      You do like to lie so many times. And making things up is your specialty.

      Quote:

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        https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-udghku84b5I/WkR-Z-EuzKI/AAAAAAACs_M/zaZ8PymznwsdVBmE_8n5tpCCxpiEjnqYwCLcBGAs/s1600/71_006.jpg

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          "Thanos only grew stronger".



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    Again, how he grew stronger is not stated in the comic. Given his past history, it's far more likely he grew stronger by obtaining outside power.


He wasn't said to be grow stronger due to outside power.

Lying and making things up both now?


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          How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.
        Alternate futures are by definition out of continuity. That's why they're called "ALTERNATE." *sigh*
      They are alternate realities and part of the multiverse. They are not out of continuity.



    Quote:
    Are you purposely being dense? When people talk about continuity, people are talking about the Prime Reality/616 Marvel Universe. By your definition, every What If? story is in continuity.


They are a part of the multiverse. Out of continuity means not even part of the main multiverse.

Don't be obtuse yourself.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:
    Lying and making things up both now?



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    They are a part of the multiverse. Out of continuity means not even part of the main multiverse.



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    Don't be obtuse yourself.


You're just trolling now, but your credibility here has already been shot.




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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 689





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    You're just trolling now, but your credibility here has already been shot.


I accept your concession once again.


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Man-Beast


Member Since: Wed Jul 09, 2014
Posts: 186



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

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          Not stated anywhere in the comic, but you do like to make things up.
        You do like to lie so many times. And making things up is your specialty.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-udghku84b5I/WkR-Z-EuzKI/AAAAAAACs_M/zaZ8PymznwsdVBmE_8n5tpCCxpiEjnqYwCLcBGAs/s1600/71_006.jpg

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            "Thanos only grew stronger".

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        Again, how he grew stronger is not stated in the comic. Given his past history, it's far more likely he grew stronger by obtaining outside power.



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    He wasn't said to be grow stronger due to outside power.



In the context of those panels (obviously we may learn more later) it seems to clearly compare the heroes naturally growing weaker with time to Thanos growing in power. Not only does it not mention an outside power, it directly compares the decline of the heroes in time to Thanos. It implies the same gradual increase/decrease as well. Showing Thanos first beating lower level heroes, and then higher level.

Based on what we see there, the comic merely states Thanos grew in his power over time, whereas the heroes weakened. I also think it is not accidental they compare Thanos to a cancer. Which will also spread naturally over time.


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            How is it likely? It's an alternate future but it's in continuity.
          Alternate futures are by definition out of continuity. That's why they're called "ALTERNATE." *sigh*
        They are alternate realities and part of the multiverse. They are not out of continuity.

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        Are you purposely being dense? When people talk about continuity, people are talking about the Prime Reality/616 Marvel Universe. By your definition, every What If? story is in continuity.



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    They are a part of the multiverse. Out of continuity means not even part of the main multiverse.


I think the alternate future is helpful to see what could happen, but not necessarily what will happen. Certainly I would not take any feats in a "What If" volume seriously. So just because Thanos might grow a beard, I do not assume he must grow a beard. However, I would now assume he CAN grow a beard.

So if Thanos does naturally grow in power in this comic, then I think it is fair to accept that as part of his power set, whether or not the future occurs.




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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:
    In the context of those panels (obviously we may learn more later) it seems to clearly compare the heroes naturally growing weaker with time to Thanos growing in power. Not only does it not mention an outside power, it directly compares the decline of the heroes in time to Thanos. It implies the same gradual increase/decrease as well. Showing Thanos first beating lower level heroes, and then higher level.



    Quote:
    Based on what we see there, the comic merely states Thanos grew in his power over time, whereas the heroes weakened. I also think it is not accidental they compare Thanos to a cancer. Which will also spread naturally over time.


What's questionable isn't whether Thanos got more powerful than the heroes. What's questionable is whether Thanos got more powerful solely through his own power than the Living Tribunal. That is what motifian is asserting.


    Quote:
    I think the alternate future is helpful to see what could happen, but not necessarily what will happen. Certainly I would not take any feats in a "What If" volume seriously. So just because Thanos might grow a beard, I do not assume he must grow a beard. However, I would now assume he CAN grow a beard.



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    So if Thanos does naturally grow in power in this comic, then I think it is fair to accept that as part of his power set, whether or not the future occurs.


You can't have it both ways. Either the alternate future establishes canon and gives Thanos the power to beat the Living Tribunal on his own AND forces you to say that whatever happens in a What If? story can also happen in continuity or it doesn't. Battleboard discussions are about power levels and abilities. There is no difference between "can" and "is".




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Man-Beast


Member Since: Wed Jul 09, 2014
Posts: 186



    Quote:

      Quote:
      In the context of those panels (obviously we may learn more later) it seems to clearly compare the heroes naturally growing weaker with time to Thanos growing in power. Not only does it not mention an outside power, it directly compares the decline of the heroes in time to Thanos. It implies the same gradual increase/decrease as well. Showing Thanos first beating lower level heroes, and then higher level.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Based on what we see there, the comic merely states Thanos grew in his power over time, whereas the heroes weakened. I also think it is not accidental they compare Thanos to a cancer. Which will also spread naturally over time.



    Quote:
    What's questionable isn't whether Thanos got more powerful than the heroes. What's questionable is whether Thanos got more powerful solely through his own power than the Living Tribunal. That is what motifian is asserting.


No, you're trying to define my argument for me and set it up as a straw man. I am specifically referencing the page he most recently linked where Thanos is shown to defeat the heroes of earth, Thor, and Hulk. I believe that page shows with reasonable reading that Thanos accomplished those feats under his own power - which increased over time as the heroes aged.

"So as the earth's heroes and champions wilted, old and weak, around him... Thanos only grew stronger". This statement is subsequent to Death abandoning him. Thanos cannot die, so as he ages he is growing in power rather than 'wilting'.

As for the pages of him with the LT, I would say we have insuffient information to interpret those pages. But we DO see him use BB as a weapon. That implies to me that Thanos has been using intellect and trickery to outmaneuver his opponents, rather than some Infinity Gauntlet level weapon (or through his own power ascending to that level through time). If Thanos has ultimate power, it seems an odd choice to haul out BB and stab him to take out celestials. I assume Thanos defeated the LT and others in a similar manner, by exploiting plans against them.

Nothing in those pages suggest Thanos has ascended to LT levels of power, either on his own or with outside help.


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      I think the alternate future is helpful to see what could happen, but not necessarily what will happen. Certainly I would not take any feats in a "What If" volume seriously. So just because Thanos might grow a beard, I do not assume he must grow a beard. However, I would now assume he CAN grow a beard.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        So if Thanos does naturally grow in power in this comic, then I think it is fair to accept that as part of his power set, whether or not the future occurs.



    Quote:
    You can't have it both ways. Either the alternate future establishes canon and gives Thanos the power to beat the Living Tribunal on his own AND forces you to say that whatever happens in a What If? story can also happen in continuity or it doesn't. Battleboard discussions are about power levels and abilities. There is no difference between "can" and "is".


Again, you're trying to define my argument and then argue against how you've defined it.

All I have said is that if Thanos is shown in an alternate future to GROW in power as he ages - then that is canon for his powerset. It does not mean it will happen the same way (perhaps he ends up dying, or ascending to godhood with a cosmic cube, etc). But alternate futures still deal with the same actors. They may not always perform the same plays.

As I said. If alternate reality Thanos grows a beard. I now view it as canon that Thanos will grow a beard given enough time. Even if his alternate future is UNDONE and never happens, Thanos as a character is still the same, and is still CAPABLE of growing a beard. Whether he does or not is a separate issue.

You're trying to extend my position to an absurd conclusion. I am stating a very narrow interpretation of what we've seen so far.



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,767



    Quote:

      Quote:
      What's questionable isn't whether Thanos got more powerful than the heroes. What's questionable is whether Thanos got more powerful solely through his own power than the Living Tribunal. That is what motifian is asserting.
    No, you're trying to define my argument for me and set it up as a straw man. I am specifically referencing the page he most recently linked where Thanos is shown to defeat the heroes of earth, Thor, and Hulk. I believe that page shows with reasonable reading that Thanos accomplished those feats under his own power - which increased over time as the heroes aged.


I know what you're referencing. My point is that with respect to the heroes, it's irrelevant when it comes to the cosmic beings and that's what my discussion with motifian is about.


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    As for the pages of him with the LT, I would say we have insuffient information to interpret those pages.


That's what I said and was only proffering a likely explanation given Thanos' history.


    Quote:
    But we DO see him use BB as a weapon. That implies to me that Thanos has been using intellect and trickery to outmaneuver his opponents, rather than some Infinity Gauntlet level weapon (or through his own power ascending to that level through time). If Thanos has ultimate power, it seems an odd choice to haul out BB and stab him to take out celestials. I assume Thanos defeated the LT and others in a similar manner, by exploiting plans against them.


It's possible, but my point is that it's all speculation. Even your speculation goes against motifian's interpretation, which is that Thanos defeated the Living Tribunal with his own personal power. And what possible plan could Thanos concoct to defeat the LT that doesn't involve a power greater than the LT?



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        I think the alternate future is helpful to see what could happen, but not necessarily what will happen. Certainly I would not take any feats in a "What If" volume seriously. So just because Thanos might grow a beard, I do not assume he must grow a beard. However, I would now assume he CAN grow a beard. So if Thanos does naturally grow in power in this comic, then I think it is fair to accept that as part of his power set, whether or not the future occurs.
      You can't have it both ways. Either the alternate future establishes canon and gives Thanos the power to beat the Living Tribunal on his own AND forces you to say that whatever happens in a What If? story can also happen in continuity or it doesn't. Battleboard discussions are about power levels and abilities. There is no difference between "can" and "is".
    Again, you're trying to define my argument and then argue against how you've defined it.


Which is perfectly fine if I've defined your argument correctly. What you have to do is tell how I've defined it incorrectly which you haven't done.


    Quote:
    All I have said is that if Thanos is shown in an alternate future to GROW in power as he ages - then that is canon for his powerset. It does not mean it will happen the same way (perhaps he ends up dying, or ascending to godhood with a cosmic cube, etc). But alternate futures still deal with the same actors. They may not always perform the same plays. As I said. If alternate reality Thanos grows a beard. I now view it as canon that Thanos will grow a beard given enough time. Even if his alternate future is UNDONE and never happens, Thanos as a character is still the same, and is still CAPABLE of growing a beard. Whether he does or not is a separate issue.


But that's no different than taking a What If? feat as canon. If normal Thor using only his power defeats the Living Tribunal in a What If? or alternate reality story, then will you take that as something Thor CAN do in Marvel's prime reality? And if not, what's the difference between accepting growing a beard and defeating the Living Tribunal?


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    You're trying to extend my position to an absurd conclusion. I am stating a very narrow interpretation of what we've seen so far.


If you apply your same logic to other instances and it leads to an absurd conclusion, then that's evidence that the logic is probably incorrect.




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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 116


You're not accepting the comic for how it's written and the intention of the authors. The problem is your last sentence and how you feel that by accepting the plain English, it leads to an absurd conclusion, so therefore the logic is probably incorrect. Except the logic is clear, and it DOES lead to an absurd conclusion. You're trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense! It's ridiculous, but the authors elevated Thanos into a universal concept with no lesser importance than Eternity, Death, etc. "The Phoneix burns. Galactus devours. The Watchers witness. The Celestials judge. Thanos lives. Thanos denies. Thanos wins." They've made Thanos' universal role "to win" as his destiny, and this is the book for everyone to know that. Wow, talk about fanboys, to win is now a universally important role because... someone has to win! And it's our boy Thanos who we pre-emptively declare as the rightful owner of the role.

Anyway, it has a much different feel than a What If. For the reasons explained by Man-Beast, and how the plain English explains it, there is absolutely no suggestion that this isn't a possible future for the 616 universe. If it was some alternate universe I could understand, but that's what separates the What Ifs from this scenario, because What Ifs are treated as non-616 realities that do actually happen. Not the case here! And so let the absurdities from the writers stand. That Blackbolt's scream deciminated celestials, and that a young Thanos (our present day Thanos), was able to make future Old man Thanos bleed from the mouth and knock him around, although not really hurting him too badly.

Silly? Yes. Bullshit interpretation? No.


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