Comic Battle >> View Thread

Author
thuggernaut


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,071


Honestly, these stories and hyper-omnipotent characters get merged in my mind.

Which of these "cosmic busters" is the most super duper omnipotent of them all? And why?

And how would they relate to someone like Mxy from DC?


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 2,810



    Quote:
    Honestly, these stories and hyper-omnipotent characters get merged in my mind.



    Quote:
    Which of these "cosmic busters" is the most super duper omnipotent of them all? And why?



    Quote:
    And how would they relate to someone like Mxy from DC?


Hard to say....I would say IG over a single Beyonder.

And...Korvac had the potential to beat Phoenix...but needed to be more ruthless and not let the Avengers etc win


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:
    Honestly, these stories and hyper-omnipotent characters get merged in my mind.



    Quote:
    Which of these "cosmic busters" is the most super duper omnipotent of them all? And why?



A single Beyonder was shown destroying a single universe and all the uber cosmic beings in that universe, which is roughly equivalent to the Infinity Gauntlet Thanos showing. So they are at about the same level, above Eternity.

The Phoenix Force has avatars across the multiverse possessing its power. The sum total of that power is probably greater than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet, but any given avatar is lower than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet. We saw Doom with the power of multiple Beyonders defeat Cyclops with the Phoenix Force, but again, that was the power of multiple Beyonders.

Korvac is upper skyfather level and the least powerful here.



Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Vangrab


Member Since: Wed May 24, 2017
Posts: 344



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Honestly, these stories and hyper-omnipotent characters get merged in my mind.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Which of these "cosmic busters" is the most super duper omnipotent of them all? And why?



    Quote:

    A single Beyonder was shown destroying a single universe and all the uber cosmic beings in that universe, which is roughly equivalent to the Infinity Gauntlet Thanos showing. So they are at about the same level, above Eternity.



    Quote:
    The Phoenix Force has avatars across the multiverse possessing its power. The sum total of that power is probably greater than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet, but any given avatar is lower than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet. We saw Doom with the power of multiple Beyonders defeat Cyclops with the Phoenix Force, but again, that was the power of multiple Beyonders.



    Quote:
    Korvac is upper skyfather level and the least powerful here.


What about single Byeonder, you said that the full power of Pheonix Force might be above single Beyonder and Infinity Gauntlet?
What about Beyonder vs. Infinity Gauntlet?
And what about heart of tthe universe-is that even cannon anymore?

What about Phoenix Force vs. Living Tribunal, if 3 Beyonders were ablet o kill Living Tribunal-the real deal I wonder......
And again what about heart of the universe vs. 3 Beyonders or vs. Pheonix Force-all at full power?
Or Heart of the universe vs. Phoenix Force and one Beyonder-all at full power?
Or heart of the universe vs. 3 Beyonders-all at full power?
Or heart of the universe vs. 3 Beyonders and Phoenix Force-all at full power?


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:
    Phoenix Force with full power has less power than the power of multiple Beyonders that Dr. Doom had?


I didn't say the Cyclops had the full power of the Phoenix Force. I don't know how much he had, but whatever it was, it was less than the power of multiple Beyonders. I'd guess even the full Phoenix Force though is less powerful than multiple Beyonders.


    Quote:
    What about single Byeonder, you said that the full power of Pheonix Force might be above single Beyonder and Infinity Gauntlet?


It's just my speculation. The Phoenix Force is the resurrection force and is part of the creation of new universes after old universes die. The Watcher called the Phoenix Force "a primal force second only to that of the creator." And the Phoenix Force seemed to be beyond even the original Secret Wars Beyonder:





    Quote:
    What about Beyonder vs. Infinity Gauntlet?
They appeared pretty equivalent in their showings against respective opponents. The comics have been a bit contradictory though and in some depictions, the Infinity Gauntlet has shown the limitation that it only works in one particular universe. The Beyonders don't have that limitation. On the other hand, the Beyonders have a weakness to time manipulation and the Infinity Gauntlet has the time gem.
    Quote:
    And what about heart of tthe universe-is that even cannon anymore?

I don't know if it's canon.

    Quote:
    What about Phoenix Force vs. Living Tribunal, if 3 Beyonders were ablet o kill Living Tribunal-the real deal I wonder...
It's unclear.

    Quote:
    And again what about heart of the universe vs. 3 Beyonders or vs. Pheonix Force-all at full power? Or Heart of the universe vs. Phoenix Force and one Beyonder-all at full power?

It's unclear.



Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,310



I think it was, but I can't find confirmation anywhere.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.84 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:

    I think it was, but I can't find confirmation anywhere.

It was assumed. The story doesn't make as much sense without that assumption. The Molecule Man contained the power like a battery and Doom was using it until Reed broke that connection.



Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,293


He is the weakest of the four of them. Really, he's about equal to the Silver Surfer. If we're talking about the original Beyonder, either he would take it or would possibly tie to Thanos.


Posted with Google Chrome 48.0.2564.116 on Windows 10
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,479



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Honestly, these stories and hyper-omnipotent characters get merged in my mind.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Which of these "cosmic busters" is the most super duper omnipotent of them all? And why?



    Quote:

    A single Beyonder was shown destroying a single universe and all the uber cosmic beings in that universe, which is roughly equivalent to the Infinity Gauntlet Thanos showing. So they are at about the same level, above Eternity.


Thanos with infinity gauntlet did not destroy any universe.


    Quote:
    The Phoenix Force has avatars across the multiverse possessing its power. The sum total of that power is probably greater than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet, but any given avatar is lower than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet. We saw Doom with the power of multiple Beyonders defeat Cyclops with the Phoenix Force, but again, that was the power of multiple Beyonders.


False, full power Phoenix Force was deemed at Galactus level only and is at nowhere near IG or Beyonder level.


    Quote:
    Korvac is upper skyfather level and the least powerful here.


Korvac isn't a skyfather.


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:
    Thanos with infinity gauntlet did not destroy any universe.


Thanos beat all the cosmic beings gathered against him, some of them near universal threats in and of themselves, and then beat Eternity, the representation of the universe.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      The Phoenix Force has avatars across the multiverse possessing its power. The sum total of that power is probably greater than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet, but any given avatar is lower than a single Beyonder or the Infinity Gauntlet. We saw Doom with the power of multiple Beyonders defeat Cyclops with the Phoenix Force, but again, that was the power of multiple Beyonders.



    Quote:
    False, full power Phoenix Force was deemed at Galactus level only and is at nowhere near IG or Beyonder level.


Nope.








And Rachel is not even the most powerful version of Phoenix.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Korvac is upper skyfather level and the least powerful here.
    Korvac isn't a skyfather.


In his original cosmic incarnation, Korvac was clearly intended to be a peer to Odin, Zeus, and Watchers.






Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,310



Doom with all that power can't take down an IG wielding Black Panther or a Phoenix powered Cyclops without effort.

He requested  help from Maestro, Goblyn Queen etc, where Thanos was beating down high end cosmics and just willing half of the universe dead.

No telepathy, precognition feats etc.






Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.84 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:
    Doom with all that power can't take down an IG wielding Black Panther or a Phoenix powered Cyclops without effort.

    He requested  help from Maestro, Goblyn Queen etc, where Thanos was beating down high end cosmics and just willing half of the universe dead.

    No telepathy, precognition feats etc.


Isn't your example of what Thanos was doing with the Gauntlet pointing out that taking down an Infinite Gauntlet wielder is going to be difficult no matter what? When Adam Warlock had the Infinity Gauntlet, he made a point that it was going to be difficult for even the Living Tribunal to take it away from him. It took three Beyonders to down the Living Tribunal. I don't know the power of how many Beyonders that Doom/Molecule Man had and I think the comic left that vague on purpose, but it just points to how potent the Infinite Gauntlet and the Phoenix Force are.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,310



Yeah, there may be some mileage in that. The IG has been through a lot of power downs (that horrible showing where it was on a par with a GL battery in JLAvengers, the fact that it is not multiversal, superseded by the Heart of the Universe etc).

With the movies, maybe it will finally come back to what it was before.






Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.84 on Windows 10
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,479




    Quote:
    Thanos beat all the cosmic beings gathered against him, some of them near universal threats in and of themselves, and then beat Eternity, the representation of the universe.


That's fine and dandy but he didn't destroy any universe.

Don't lie now.



    Quote:
    Nope.


Proof?




    Quote:
    And Rachel is not even the most powerful version of Phoenix.


I'm talking about Jean Grey.




    Quote:
    In his original cosmic incarnation, Korvac was clearly intended to be a peer to Odin, Zeus, and Watchers.


And then he wasn't. In fact a sorcerer supreme in 31st century basically oneshots him when he was reincarnated.






Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,505



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Thanos beat all the cosmic beings gathered against him, some of them near universal threats in and of themselves, and then beat Eternity, the representation of the universe.
    That's fine and dandy but he didn't destroy any universe.


Thanos didn't have to. He beat Eternity which is the equivalent of saying he can destroy a universe if he wanted to.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Nope.
    Proof?


The scan showing Phoenix beating Galactus, which contradicts your statement that Phoenix isn't more powerful than Galactus.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      And Rachel is not even the most powerful version of Phoenix.
    I'm talking about Jean Grey.


Jean Grey, especially when she's the White Phoenix of the Crown, is more powerful than Rachel, and Rachel showed power beyond even the original Beyonder.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      In his original cosmic incarnation, Korvac was clearly intended to be a peer to Odin, Zeus, and Watchers.
    And then he wasn't. In fact a sorcerer supreme in 31st century basically oneshots him when he was reincarnated.


Well, I don't think you have any credibility when it comes to judging skyfather levels of power since you think Thor should beat Odin, that Odin is a weakling, and Hulk should beat Zeus.



Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
swmcbf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,987


 Just a guess but Doom may have been limited by his inability  to effectively   use or  control  all  the higher  planes of  power  to the full extent.  That has been a problem  for him  whenever  ultimate  power has  come under  his  control. That would be a call back to the original Secret Wars.


Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.84 on Windows 7
Oculporate




Ummm, Korvac had the potential to reach that level. Both early stories involving the Living Tribunal saying he could grow to be more powerful and later stories with Beyonder Doom containing instead of eliminating him and his awakening being big news that would require his personal attention suggest he can be that level but wasn't ever yet that powerful.


Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.84 on Windows NT 4.0
makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,569



    Quote:

    Yeah, there may be some mileage in that. The IG has been through a lot of power downs (that horrible showing where it was on a par with a GL battery in JLAvengers, the fact that it is not multiversal, superseded by the Heart of the Universe etc).

    I'm a little confused here where was the GL Battery considered on par with the IG? Surely not because it was one the items collected during the Avengers/JLA cross over.


    With the movies, maybe it will finally come back to what it was before.
Well they have been rather consistent with the gauntlet having power over a single universe. Never was it stated or intended to be multi-versal. Each universe has its own IG which can't be used in other universes. The only time the IG was multi-versal was when it was a single being before it killed itself and put the infinity gems in each universe. Of course this will change when another writer will throw all of this out the window and come up with something else that will supersede all of this. 



Posted with Google Chrome 49.0.2623.112 on Windows Vista
Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,269



    Quote:
    Really, he's about equal to the Silver Surfer.



This again? Korvac was going to destroy the combined Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy teams. He talked of battling Odin, Zeus, Mephisto and their entire armies, he talked of overthrowing Eternity and taking over the universe. And you continue to say Korvac is no more powerful than the Silver Surfer?!?

Okay, who wins this fight?

Silver Surfer

vs.

Black Panther
Black Widow
Captain Marvel (Mar-vell)
Hawkeye
Hercules
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Vision
Wasp
Wonderman
Yellowjacket
Captain America
Iron Man
Moondragon
Thor
Starhawk
Charlie-27
Martinex
Yondu
Nikki Gold
Jocasta
Ms. Marvel

Is it your opinion that the Silver Surfer can effortlessly kill them all?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0 on Windows Vista

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software