Comic Battle >> View Thread

Author
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675


VS.


• Fandral of the Warriors Three vs. the original Swordsman, Jacques Duquesne.

• Swordsman's sword is the version he had before the Mandarin added various gimmicks to it, like ray blasts and such (though it's still durable enough to stand up to an Asgardian blade, as shown when Swordsman fought the Valkyrie).

• Fight takes place in the courtyard of a medieval castle.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



Fandral is stronger, likely faster, more durable and way more experienced.

When Fandral pushes back with his sword, Swordsman will be launched back, as if he has been hit by a truck.

Swordsman is skilled, but he lost in a fight with the Black Knight.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675



    Quote:
    Fandral is stronger, likely faster, more durable and way more experienced.

    When Fandral pushes back with his sword, Swordsman will be launched back, as if he has been hit by a truck.

    Swordsman is skilled, but he lost in a fight with the Black Knight.


... I don't think this is as lopsided as you've made it sound. Thor said the Swordsman's expertise with a blade rivalled any ever seen in Asgard.
https://imgur.com/a/RWKHa.jpg


Although the Valkyrie ultimately bested the Swordsman through brute strength, he proved the more skilled than she was, and had her on the defensive for much of the fight. According to the OHOTMU, Valkyrie is 50% stronger than Fandral, lifting 45 tons to his 30.
https://imgur.com/a/wxK8D


I don't believe the original Swordsman ever fought (never mind lost to) the Black Knight. Another Swordsman (Philip Javert) from a parallel universe did, and he was likely as good as the original, but he lost to Dane due to periodic, pounding headaches he was having as a result of being out of synch with the 616 timeline. Before the sudden headache left him open to Dane's thrust, he was comfortably holding his own, and managed to draw first blood.
https://imgur.com/a/Zr48R




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



but yeah, I thought Dane had beat him clean.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,489




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0 on Windows Vista
aquamariner


Member Since: Mon Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 1,097



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Fandral is stronger, likely faster, more durable and way more experienced.



      Quote:
      When Fandral pushes back with his sword, Swordsman will be launched back, as if he has been hit by a truck.



      Quote:
      Swordsman is skilled, but he lost in a fight with the Black Knight.



    Quote:
    ... I don't think this is as lopsided as you've made it sound. Thor said the Swordsman's expertise with a blade rivalled any ever seen in Asgard.
    https://imgur.com/a/RWKHa.jpg



    Quote:

    Although the Valkyrie ultimately bested the Swordsman through brute strength, he proved the more skilled than she was, and had her on the defensive for much of the fight. According to the OHOTMU, Valkyrie is 50% stronger than Fandral, lifting 45 tons to his 30.
    https://imgur.com/a/wxK8D
actually Swordsman shot back some fugitive Nazi criminal when he found evil eye in Avengers 117


    Quote:

    I don't believe the original Swordsman ever fought (never mind lost to) the Black Knight. Another Swordsman (Philip Javert) from a parallel universe did, and he was likely as good as the original, but he lost to Dane due to periodic, pounding headaches he was having as a result of being out of synch with the 616 timeline. Before the sudden headache left him open to Dane's thrust, he was comfortably holding his own, and managed to draw first blood.
    https://imgur.com/a/Zr48R





Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 7
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Although the Valkyrie ultimately bested the Swordsman through brute strength, he proved the more skilled than she was, and had her on the defensive for much of the fight. According to the OHOTMU, Valkyrie is 50% stronger than Fandral, lifting 45 tons to his 30.
      https://imgur.com/a/wxK8D


    actually Swordsman shot back some fugitive Nazi criminal when he found evil eye in Avengers 117


Yes, you can see that in the scans I posted. But if you notice, shortly before that, Valkyrie struck him hard enough to disarm him, and he was lying face down on the floor long enough for her to leap over him, which means she could've killed him if she'd wanted. I'd consider that a victory, even though he was back to his feet two panels later.

I suppose another thing to consider is that the Valkyrie's essence was in a human host at the time (Barbara Norris), and she didn't have her full memory. I'm not sure if that diminished her skill level, but it could have. She certainly lacked the Shakespearean Asgardian speech pattern.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 217



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Although the Valkyrie ultimately bested the Swordsman through brute strength, he proved the more skilled than she was, and had her on the defensive for much of the fight. According to the OHOTMU, Valkyrie is 50% stronger than Fandral, lifting 45 tons to his 30.
        https://imgur.com/a/wxK8D



      Quote:
      actually Swordsman shot back some fugitive Nazi criminal when he found evil eye in Avengers 117



    Quote:
    Yes, you can see that in the scans I posted. But if you notice, shortly before that, Valkyrie struck him hard enough to disarm him, and he was lying face down on the floor long enough for her to leap over him, which means she could've killed him if she'd wanted. I'd consider that a victory, even though he was back to his feet two panels later.



    Quote:
    I suppose another thing to consider is that the Valkyrie's essence was in a human host at the time (Barbara Norris), and she didn't have her full memory. I'm not sure if that diminished her skill level, but it could have. She certainly lacked the Shakespearean Asgardian speech pattern.


Exactly. The Valkyrie was nowhere near her full skill or godly experience during that time. This was confirmed later on when the Beast and Angel were members.

The Swordsman has no chance in Hel against a god who's been at it for centuries.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on MacOS X
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



Cap decides to split the Avengers up into a team of USAgent, Hawkeye, Black Knight and Tigra to go and fight the Masters of Evil.

Thor is probably thinking the Warriors 3 and Lady Sif would be better companions. Apart from a potential agility edge from Tigra, skill and power wise, not really anything they can offer that the Warriors 3 can do better.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675





Is that because of Fandral's combo of skill and superhuman stats? Or would you still rank Swordsman lower even if they had equal stats?




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



Probably, a bit of both.

What Fandral has going is he one of the very best swordsman of an elite, highly skilled immortal race that is constantly at war with mythically powered beings.

As good as Swordsman is, even if his natural ability is the same, he hasn't been around as long, can't practice or fight as long and doesn't have Fandral's strength or reflexes, at best he may have his accuracy.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 217



    Quote:

    Probably, a bit of both.



    Quote:
    What Fandral has going is he one of the very best swordsman of an elite, highly skilled immortal race that is constantly at war with mythically powered beings.



    Quote:
    As good as Swordsman is, even if his natural ability is the same, he hasn't been around as long, can't practice or fight as long and doesn't have Fandral's strength or reflexes, at best he may have his accuracy.


Exactly. Fandral would be insulted being compared to a mere mortal such as the Swordsman.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on MacOS X
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Probably, a bit of both.

      What Fandral has going is he one of the very best swordsman of an elite, highly skilled immortal race that is constantly at war with mythically powered beings.

      As good as Swordsman is, even if his natural ability is the same, he hasn't been around as long, can't practice or fight as long and doesn't have Fandral's strength or reflexes, at best he may have his accuracy.


    Exactly. Fandral would be insulted being compared to a mere mortal such as the Swordsman.


Thor himself compared Swordsman's skill to any ever seen in Asgard though.
https://imgur.com/a/RWKHa.jpg


And Fandral compared his own skill to that of Taskmaster.
https://imgur.com/a/dq40r


Taskmaster was able to defeat random Asgardian soldiers.
https://imgur.com/a/xpiI8




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



He is essentially super-powered and at small bursts can duplicate superhuman speed.

Fandral noted he was getting better with each step, e.g. his ability to duplicate skills was copying Fandral's. Which is to say, his duplicated skills of Black Knight/Swordsman wasn't quite as good to begin with.

He is also shown matching Fandral with his blows, has he got superhuman strnegth derived from his battle armour? I don't know.

I can't access the Thor comment, but yeah, Thor thought he would beat Superman in another fight. He tends to say statements like this. In addition, he may be remarking about accuracy, or a narrow margin of set moves. I don't know - but Thor is not a swordsman.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675



    Quote:
    He is essentially super-powered and at small bursts can duplicate superhuman speed.


As far as I know, that was a one-off trick he pulled in the UDON mini. I've never seen it mentioned elsewhere.


    Quote:
    Fandral noted he was getting better with each step, e.g. his ability to duplicate skills was copying Fandral's. Which is to say, his duplicated skills of Black Knight/Swordsman wasn't quite as good to begin with.


Yeah, although I'm not sure he's ever had the opportunity to study the original Swordsman, since the Swordsman died before he debuted. He's definitely studied footage of the Black Knight, but being able to reproduce some of Dane's moves doesn't necessarily make him equal as an all around swordfighter.

In terms of general combat skill, Taskmaster's record suggests he's a step behind the likes of Daredevil and Cap on average, despite having copied moves from them and others.


    Quote:
    He is also shown matching Fandral with his blows, has he got superhuman strnegth derived from his battle armour? I don't know.


Nah. That looks like his classic costume, and he's never been portrayed as having a strength-enhancing suit to my knowledge, certainly not as standard.


    Quote:
    I can't access the Thor comment, but yeah, Thor thought he would beat Superman in another fight. He tends to say statements like this. In addition, he may be remarking about accuracy, or a narrow margin of set moves. I don't know - but Thor is not a swordsman.


Thor's sometimes guilty of bluster, but this is the opposite; he was giving the Swordsman credit. I posted the wrong link before, but here's the page itself.







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,605



I am assuming Swordsman held his own, but yeah Thor does like to exaggerate.

The strength thing, I don't really believe, but thinking about it weren't the villians enhanced by the Norn Stones or something? Regardless, it is clear in the narrative Taskmaster is getting better.

IIRC, Taskmaster only normally gets beat because he is stupid. Daredevil beat him by getting Taskmaster to do flips until he hit something and Taskmaster got beat by Mister X as X could read his mind.

Nonetheless, Taskmaster is above Swordsman and if he was enhanced by the Norn Stones, this doesn't look good for the Swordsman vs Fandral one on one.







Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board [CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/17.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,675



    Quote:
    I am assuming Swordsman held his own, but yeah Thor does like to exaggerate.


Swordsman did better than hold his own. He bested Vision and Panther in a couple of pages, which apparently quelled their doubts about his abilities.

https://imgur.com/a/RWKHa


    Quote:
    The strength thing, I don't really believe, but thinking about it weren't the villians enhanced by the Norn Stones or something? Regardless, it is clear in the narrative Taskmaster is getting better.


Sure. It does seem to suggest he wasn't quite as skilled as Fandral initially, although he couldn't have been too far below him, or else he wouldn't have lasted long enough to catch up.


    Quote:
    IIRC, Taskmaster only normally gets beat because he is stupid. Daredevil beat him by getting Taskmaster to do flips until he hit something and Taskmaster got beat by Mister X as X could read his mind.


There are excuses for some of his losses but not all of them. Elektra beat him straight up.


    Quote:
    Nonetheless, Taskmaster is above Swordsman and if he was enhanced by the Norn Stones, this doesn't look good for the Swordsman vs Fandral one on one.


I'm not aware of Taskmaster being enhanced by anything in that story. Nothing is mentioned about that in the issues those scans came from, or in any other related issue I've read.

And I don't buy that Taskmaster is above Swordsman in sword skills. His skills are primarily based on those of the Black Knight (that's the only character I've seen referenced in regard to Tasky's sword skills), which suggests he's at best equal to Dane, and possibly a bit below, since copying some of Dane's moves doesn't mean he knows all of Dane's moves. Nor does it mean he has as much experience of sword fighting as Dane, or as much knowledge of how to string those moves together in the most effective way.

Judging by the Black Knight's showing against the second Swordsman, I'd guess he and the Swordsman are about equal, but either one could conceivably have a slight edge, since the fight wasn't conclusively settled one way or the other.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,093



    Quote:

    Fandral is stronger, likely faster, more durable and way more experienced.



    Quote:
    When Fandral pushes back with his sword, Swordsman will be launched back, as if he has been hit by a truck.



    Quote:
    Swordsman is skilled, but he lost in a fight with the Black Knight.


Agreed he needs Mandarins upgrades to have a shot.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
bragagain007


Member Since: Tue Dec 27, 2016
Posts: 429


Nt


Posted with Samsung Mobile LRX22C on Linux

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software