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Author
The Nephilim


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,279





Who wins?




"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 668


Bill was his planet's Captain America who was then augmented to be seemingly equal to Thor physically. Thor=Hercules physically...I think its been pretty well established.

Herc has been shown to be a slightly better unarmed combatant than Thor, so MAYBE he gets a slight edge on Bill, but Bill did seemingly win Mjolnir in the first fight, though due to Thor's alter ego weakness, and then Bill beat Thor in the battle for Mjolnir, though the environment was set to slightly favor him...

All in all, they're two physical peers that can fight with high levels of skill, and it could go either way.


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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,459



    Quote:
    Bill was his planet's Captain America who was then augmented to be seemingly equal to Thor physically. Thor=Hercules physically...I think its been pretty well established.



    Quote:
    Herc has been shown to be a slightly better unarmed combatant than Thor, so MAYBE he gets a slight edge on Bill, but Bill did seemingly win Mjolnir in the first fight, though due to Thor's alter ego weakness, and then Bill beat Thor in the battle for Mjolnir, though the environment was set to slightly favor him...


Hercules been slightly better than Thor in unarmed combat was Oeming's personal interpretation. Back then, when he was posting in the Thor MB, he said that Greeks supposed to be better wrestlers than the Asgardians and Thor relied too much on his weapon (Mjolnir). However, Thor was going to defeat Hercules in hand to hand combat (way back in JIM) before Odin took half of Thor's strength. Odin said that he took the victory away from Thor then. What I'm saying is that: this is all subject to a writer interpretation of things. Thor was a trained warrior way before he even picked up Mjolnir; you just don't forget your training and experience all of the sudden; and their first encounter proved this so.. Now, I wanted to ask Oeming that had Hercules fought the Hulk- would Hercules had choke the life out of the Hulk because he was a better trained fighter? However, I didn't want to create any friction, so I basically held myself back from any such comments. However, HEll NO Marvel would've allowed Oeming to have Hercules defeat the Hulk in any capacity, but with Thor everything was OK. and open to interpretation. This is what really angers me and frustrates me, because this stuff keeps happening to Thor time and again..



    Quote:
    All in all, they're two physical peers that can fight with high levels of skill, and it could go either way.





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The Nephilim


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,279




Gotta say, wasn’t expecting Thor admitting Herc was the “slightly” better fighter. Guess Odin’s lesson in humility actually paid off. \:\-z




"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 768


Thor was always the equal to Hercules in all of their previous Oeming fights.

Oeming ignores cannon to make an uneducated assertion.


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mnapoli40


Member Since: Mon Oct 25, 2010
Posts: 80


Even if you accept Oeming's interpretation from that comic that Herc is a better hand-to-hand combatant, you have to remember that that occurrence happened when Thor was very young. All meetings since then (or, in other words, ALL of their many fights in continuity) have shown them to be absolute equals when fighting hand to hand.

So, either Oeming was wrong to have Thor state that Herc was better or Thor has since bridged that gap to become Herc's equal in modern times.

Take your pick.


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The Nephilim


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,279



    Quote:
    Even if you accept Oeming's interpretation from that comic that Herc is a better hand-to-hand combatant, you have to remember that that occurrence happened when Thor was very young. All meetings since then (or, in other words, ALL of their many fights in continuity) have shown them to be absolute equals when fighting hand to hand.


Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever quite accepted Oeming’s analysis here which is why I was surprised when I read it. That said, I don’t think age has much to do with fighting (although I believe Thor was still much older than Herc here), but rather who has the greater affinity and heart for battle.


    Quote:
    So, either Oeming was wrong to have Thor state that Herc was better or Thor has since bridged that gap to become Herc's equal in modern times.



    Quote:
    Take your pick.


They could be equals. But I would sure like to see one match to the KO without any interruptions from Zues.

Although if there’s one “slightly” better fighter than Thor out there, I wouldn’t mind if it was Herc.







"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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The Nephilim


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,279


True. Blood oath was the only mention of Herc’s superiority that I’m aware of.




"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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Dragon Red


Member Since: Fri Jul 05, 2013
Posts: 1,085


Those scans are ancient, nearly as old as me. How do older comics prove a more recent comic incorrect?

And its not like Thor admitted Hercules was Vastly better in hand to hand, only "slightly"


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 768



    Quote:
    Those scans are ancient, nearly as old as me. How do older comics prove a more recent comic incorrect?


Because 1)they haven't fought in recent times in unarmed combat except Oeming's bout and

2) tell me what has changed between now and then when they have fought at least 4 to 5 times? If Hercules is a better fighter now that means he was a better fighter back then and he had several opportunities to beat Thor in unarmed combat and it never happened.


    Quote:
    And its not like Thor admitted Hercules was Vastly better in hand to hand, only "slightly"


The Thor I know and grew up with would never admit Hercules was better than him in ANYTHING PERIOD because he simply isn't.








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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 768




Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
Dragon Red


Member Since: Fri Jul 05, 2013
Posts: 1,085



    Quote:
    Because 1)they haven't fought in recent times in unarmed combat except Oeming's bout and

    2) tell me what has changed between now and then when they have fought at least 4 to 5 times? If Hercules is a better fighter now that means he was a better fighter back then and he had several opportunities to beat Thor in unarmed combat and it never happened.


I think you're overreaching a bit, if Thor thinks in a more recent comic that Hercules is a "Slightly" better hand to hand fighter, that isn't a snub against Thor really that's a little prop for Hercules. And being slightly better at something doesn't mean guaranteed losses does it?

I could say I am slightly better at mathematics than my sister is, I got 84% and she got 81%. That, is slight. But in practical and applied terms, its not a significant difference enough to affect outcomes.


    Quote:
    The Thor I know and grew up with would never admit Hercules was better than him in ANYTHING PERIOD because he simply isn't.


Thor didn't admit anything out loud at least, he thought Herc was a slightly better hand to hand fighter. At best that is personal reflection. At worse maybe a bit of concern he ended up in a choke hold.

And Herc being SLIGHTLY better at hand to hand fighting, really changes nothing in terms of the characters because we know when Thor hasn't been emasculated, had an arm cut off, and lost his hammer overall he is more powerful than Hercules is. Facts.





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