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Bk Ray

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If Odin is a 100. What is Thor?

What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?

What is Agamotto? What is Dr Strange?

What is Surtur? What is Dormmammu? What is Arishem, the Celestial?

Assume, we are talking about the mode, here.





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Man-Beast


Member Since: Wed Jul 09, 2014
Posts: 289


This is probably prone to generate an absolute ton of opinions.



    Quote:

    If Odin is a 100. What is Thor?


Assuming a more classic version of Thor, I'd say Thor is a 60. There was rarely much doubt in my mind that both Odin and Thor knew Odin could significantly outclass Thor if he needed/wanted to.


    Quote:
    What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?


Galactus is a 130, assuming fed and ready to roll. He should probably be higher given his statein the universe, but he just has so many bad showings.

SS is a 30-40. He's under Thor and Odin. I think Odin one-shotted him at one point.


    Quote:
    What is Agamotto? What is Dr Strange?


Agamotto is a 120. Strange a 30-40.


    Quote:
    What is Surtur? What is Dormmammu? What is Arishem, the Celestial?


Dormammu has so many restrictions based on his dimension, magical alignments, and other random factors. Assuming they both met under conditions of peak power, I'd give Dormammu a 130.


    Quote:
    Assume, we are talking about the mode, here.





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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,695


Arishem 135
Galactus (fed) 120
Agamotto (in his own realm) 120
Odin 100
Dormammu 100
Thanos 30
Thor 10
Silver Surfer 10
Dr. Strange 9 (but could be higher if bringing prep or various magical items to bear)

Once upon a time, Arishem would be even higher given that he effortlessly withstood the combined blast of three skyfathers, but the stock of Celestials have come down a lot since. Galactus and Agamotto stalemated in Agamotto's realm so I rated them the same. Dormammu, as boastful as they come, merely claimed to be the equal of Odin and Zeus, and that Odin and Dormammu were pitted in a chess match by Order and Chaos would seem to bear that out.






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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 658


Tough gauging the mode without going through all of the respective showings, but I'll try

Odin is 100

So, Thor could range from 1 to about 60. Thor was at best 10% of Heimdall when he had a portion of the Odinpower, but at other times it has seemed considerably closer.

Overall, somewhere in the 10-20 range probably, so I'll go with 15.

Thor 15
Surfer 15
Dr. strange 10
Firelord (for comparison) 11-12
Galactus 125
Agamotto maybe 125...seemed even with Galactus...
Celestials...early on I would have said 1000 or more, but now, I have
no idea, maybe 125-150
Dormy I put equal to Odin


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:
    Arishem 135
    Galactus (fed) 120
    Agamotto (in his own realm) 120
    Odin 100
    Dormammu 100
    Thanos 30
    Thor 10
    Silver Surfer 10
    Dr. Strange 9 (but could be higher if bringing prep or various magical items to bear)



    Quote:
    Once upon a time, Arishem would be even higher given that he effortlessly withstood the combined blast of three skyfathers, but the stock of Celestials have come down a lot since. Galactus and Agamotto stalemated in Agamotto's realm so I rated them the same. Dormammu, as boastful as they come, merely claimed to be the equal of Odin and Zeus, and that Odin and Dormammu were pitted in a chess match by Order and Chaos would seem to bear that out.


Curious as to where you guys would put Loki if your putting Dr. Strange at 9, right below Surfer and Thor?




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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,695



    Quote:
    Curious as to where you guys would put Loki if your putting Dr. Strange at 9, right below Surfer and Thor?

9 as well.




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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,459



    Quote:

    If Odin is a 100. What is Thor?



    Quote:
    What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?



    Quote:
    What is Agamotto? What is Dr Strange?



    Quote:
    What is Surtur? What is Dormmammu? What is Arishem, the Celestial?



    Quote:
    Assume, we are talking about the mode, here.



A Odin who could dispatched Surtur with just a wave of his hand (awaken after the Odin Sleep) is not the same as one who has not slept for months.. A Galactus who has devour a Planet is not the same as one who's looking for one. How could anyone truly measure the scope of powers such as these? How big of a Planet did Galactus devoured? What's it a small, medium or giant size Planet? How can you quantify Odin's Mystical powers that are a threat to the entire Multiverse itself when in its peak (see the Infinity Saga and his battle vs Seth)? How can you quantify Thor's powers when he combines the Mystical powers of Mjolnir and his Life Force at full capacity? How can you gauge Thanos powers- when he decides to siphon energies from some mysterious location? Where does Thanos powers ends and when other energy sources he taps in truly begin?

What I cannot understand is how can all of the people who responded to these questions truly believes that Galactus is above Odin? What actual proves do they have? When they fought, Odin (who's a Master tactician and an Elite warrior for many countless centuries chose to head-butt his opponent when he has a weapon in his hand that could've done far more Extensive damage on his foe and NO collateral damage on his person). Let's say that Odin did not want to kill Galactus because he's a vital intricate part of the MU- well then, he could've instantly healed from his wound (immediately after he KO Galactus)from the headbutt- the same way that he restores Thor back to life fully w/o the injuries he suffered- when Odin killed him. The fact is that you don't need any writers who do not know most of the time what they're doing to tell you how strong or powerful a character is.. Spider-Man cannot touch Firelord with any part of his body because his body emanates heat far more intense that the Sun itself, but they write things like this... The trick is would you accept anything they throw at you, or you actually look for consistency.. I've chosen the latter many moons ago, simply because it's what really makes sense...




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Bk Ray

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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,832


Always thought that Dormammu should be higher than that but the showings do not bare it out.

The only instance I can think of was a note in Dr. Strange. That the longer Dormammu was in the normal universe the stronger he would get until he would defeat even the Celestials. Or his showings of sort of canceling out Eternity in the one instance or defeating him with Umar. But both have asteriks with them.





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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 658


but the ongoing shift away from gods and to cosmics has long since tipped the balance IMO.

I find it hard to imagine a scenario where a reasonably healthy Galactus went into battle with Odin as an underdog these days.


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 658


with Firelord in the 11-12 ballpark.  I put Loki in the 12 ballpark, even though head to head I think Loki vs. Strange is a very close fight.

I think the added strength and durability make Loki FAR more formidable in a non prep situation.

I also look at Strange as essentially Surfer without the innate strength and durability, and I think Strange and Loki's magic in generally operate at similar levels.

Firelord is less versatile in use of power cosmic, and isn't as strong or durable as Surfer.

All in all, its a tough call, but Strange gets owned by guys like Spider Man (at least two very quick and easy losses), though he also punches out of his weight class as much as anyone and more than most....



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Olorin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 291


Great question. Also tough to answer.


    Quote:

    If Odin is a 100. What is Thor?


15


    Quote:
    What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?


Galactus - 125
Silver Surfer - 15


    Quote:
    What is Agamotto? What is Dr Strange?


Agamotto - 100
Dr. Strange - this is the hardest. he could be 5, he could be 100, you know? maybe not 100, but you probably get what I mean. I guess I will put him at 15 like Thor and Surfer.


    Quote:
    What is Surtur? What is Dormmammu? What is Arishem, the Celestial?


Surtur - 100
Dormmammu - 95
Arishem - 120


    Quote:
    Assume, we are talking about the mode, here.





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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,832


I tend to lose track of when some things occured in real world time, but I always gathered that if they were to battle it likely would have been a fairly intense battle.




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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,459



    Quote:
    but the ongoing shift away from gods and to cosmics has long since tipped the balance IMO.



    Quote:
    I find it hard to imagine a scenario where a reasonably healthy Galactus went into battle with Odin as an underdog these days.


Until a writer comes along and undo any such trend. It really does not take much to accomplish this- take what the Invisible Woman did to a Celestial Armor, and her son making Galactus his personal Herald without even tapping into any Cosmic Cube. If things do not make sense from one day to another; you'll have problems speculating about any likely scenario- it's that simple!! That's why I usually stick to the Original version- unless a character is shown to be de-powered, or his/her powers increased through artificial means, etc. If Spiderman is giving difficulty to someone with the power of Ultimus who possesses an invisible Force Field among other deadly powers- I'm not going to go along with that recent portrayal of Ultimus; same applies with Odin, Galactus and things that makes no perfect sense to anyone..


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:
    with Firelord in the 11-12 ballpark.  I put Loki in the 12 ballpark, even though head to head I think Loki vs. Strange is a very close fight.

    I think the added strength and durability make Loki FAR more formidable in a non prep situation.

    I also look at Strange as essentially Surfer without the innate strength and durability, and I think Strange and Loki's magic in generally operate at similar levels.

    Firelord is less versatile in use of power cosmic, and isn't as strong or durable as Surfer.

    All in all, its a tough call, but Strange gets owned by guys like Spider Man (at least two very quick and easy losses), though he also punches out of his weight class as much as anyone and more than most....

Sounds about right.  I think a lot of people have forgotten how dangerous Loki truly is--yes he's the master manipulator and prefers to have others do his dirty work for him but he's shown to be a cunning fierce fighter in the past in addition to his spell casting abilities.  I agree Loki has the "without-a-doubt" clear advantage against Strange in no prep situations. 

 




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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,852


Assuming Odin is a 100

Thor: 10-15
Silver Surfer: 15-20
Galactus: 25-150 though on average I would day about 120
Agamotto: 120-150

Surfer 90-110 depending on if he is fulfilling his Ragnarok purpose
Dormammu-100-200
Arishem: 150


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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,536



    Quote:

    If Odin is a 100. What is Thor?
With problem with high end beings like Odin its hard to put them in a box and say they don't go outside this box or be reliably at set high number. They can and do fluctuate by a wide margin (due to PIS). Same for Thor. With that said I think Thor is solid 15 compared to Odin. 


    Quote:
    What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?
This one is tricky. Since Galactus can vary greatly If he has consumed 4 or 5 planets in a row he can be near 200 and he can be as low as 50. Surfer is a solid 12 to 15 depending on his mood/writer.


    Quote:
    What is Agamotto? What is Dr Strange?


I would put Agamotto in Odin's class so right around 100 or so. Dr. Strange can vary greatly depending on who he is invoking and how many entities. Remember with Dr. Strange its not his power but the being(s) who he is invoking. I would put him around 15-20.
 


    Quote:
    What is Surtur? What is Dormmammu? What is Arishem, the Celestial?


1.) Surtur is around Odin's level 100 or so.
2.) Dormmamu is close to or equal to Odin in his own realm 100.
3.) Celestials first appearance should around 300 to 500 later retcon around 200 with Exitar at about 400. (Exitar cloned Thor and the clone had power enough to repair Mjolnir and teleport Thor to Earth in an instance.) Now Exitar can be brought down by Sue Storm. (sigh)



    Quote:
    Assume, we are talking about the mode, here.
huh?




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:
    What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?
This one is tricky. Since Galactus can vary greatly If he has consumed 4 or 5 planets in a row he can be near 200 and he can be as low as 50. Surfer is a solid 12 to 15 depending on his mood/writer.


I always assumed Galactus could absorb only so much energy reaching a limit he couldn't go beyond and any residual/additional energy was transferred into the reserves of his spaceship.  

  



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Bk Ray

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bragagain007


Member Since: Tue Dec 27, 2016
Posts: 346


If Odin is 100:

Thor is 20-25

Galactus is 125-130 on average i think. As low as 30 or 40 in early 1980s during FF 240 something (getting old - cant remember exact issues - Terrax turned on Galactus and the FF, Thor, Strange and Spider-Man i think defeated weakened Galactus - one of my favorite story arcs as a kid - i was around 10 - it was a super team-up crossover event before the big crossover events existed and have become so watered down.)

Surfer is 20-25

Agamotto - not sure to be honest.

Dr. Strange - 10-20 normally - but can peform up to 75 level prepared spells i think.

Surtur is 100 normally - and i would say 120 with Twilight Sword.

Dormammu is 50 to 75 in Earth dimension, but in the Dark Dimension i think 110 or just slightly greater than Odin.

Arishem is classically 200 or more probably. These days the Celestials are not as impressive. Which began in the 90s i think.

and don't know what 'we are talking about the mode, here.' means. clarifaction?


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Bk Ray

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Visitor


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That it did.  However IRRC Galactus was sated rather quickly after a world or two and any additional reserves were held in storage cells/tanks aboard his ship.

It was those storage supplies Korvac absorbed when Galactus was away from his ship that transformed him into the Enemy, making him the most dangerous entity in the universe.  He could absorb and add life energies from defeated adversaries to his own making him more powerful each time it occurred.   
 



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Visitor


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I'm trying to wrap my brain around, it appears most people believe Galactus is/was more powerful than Odin on average.

Is there any evidence that supports this?

Also why do I get a spam message when I reply? Sometimes it's really annoying. Is there a trick to avoid this?



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Bk Ray

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bragagain007


Member Since: Tue Dec 27, 2016
Posts: 346


My opinion of Galactus being smidge higher than Odin is probably more due to Odin's failings than Galactus' feats maybe. Odin has been defeated and/ or imprisoned so many times by opposition that i cant imagine giving Galactus too hard a battle. The Dark Gods, Seth and if remwmber correctly - Surtur and Hela


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bragagain007


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Posts: 346


N/t


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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,536



    Quote:

      Quote:
      What is Galactus? What is Silver Surfer?
    This one is tricky. Since Galactus can vary greatly If he has consumed 4 or 5 planets in a row he can be near 200 and he can be as low as 50. Surfer is a solid 12 to 15 depending on his mood/writer.



    Quote:
    I always assumed Galactus could absorb only so much energy reaching a limit he couldn't go beyond and any residual/additional energy was
    transferred into the reserves of his spaceship.
I don't think Galactus has a limit as to how much energy he can take in. In several issues he took in way more than what he normally does. In the Fantastic Four Black Celestial Saga, Galactus was in the process of consuming the entire universe. In another FF issue Galactus consumed 4 worlds in a row to fight the mad Celestials. Another example is after Galactus was freed from the Annihilation Wave he had two heralds finds worlds to replace what he'd lost. Normally 1 world will keep the hunger away for a month or so but he can take in more. I think its safe to say he has no limit. Galactus' ships are independently powered and the ship TAA II can be used as a energy source under dire circumstances. 
  



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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,536



    Quote:
    That it did.  However IRRC Galactus was sated rather quickly after a world or two and any additional reserves were held in storage cells/tanks aboard his ship.
Can you provide and issue number of this?


    Quote:
    It was those storage supplies Korvac absorbed when Galactus was away from his ship that transformed him into the Enemy, making him the most dangerous entity in the universe.  He could absorb and add life energies from defeated adversaries to his own making him more powerful each time it occurred.
From what I read about Korvac is that he absorbed/took in the information/knowledge and energy from Galactus' ship. Even though Galactus can travel/fly warp/ time travel without using a ship he prefers to do so because it requires no energy from him. Galactus also prefers to use a converter machine because it is more efficient with energy absorption than he is. 




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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,832


Assume you mean Surtur there.




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That it did.  However IRRC Galactus was sated rather quickly after a world or two and any additional reserves were held in storage cells/tanks aboard his ship.
    Can you provide and issue number of this?


      Quote:
      It was those storage supplies Korvac absorbed when Galactus was away from his ship that transformed him into the Enemy, making him the most dangerous entity in the universe.  He could absorb and add life energies from defeated adversaries to his own making him more powerful each time it occurred.
    From what I read about Korvac is that he absorbed/took in the information/knowledge and energy from Galactus' ship. Even though Galactus can travel/fly warp/ time travel without using a ship he prefers to do so because it requires no energy from him. Galactus also prefers to use a converter machine because it is more efficient with energy absorption than he is. 




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That it did.  However IRRC Galactus was sated rather quickly after a world or two and any additional reserves were held in storage cells/tanks aboard his ship.
    Can you provide and issue number of this?

    I don’t
    know why I’m having trouble loading/posting scans on here.  Anyway It looks like I’m going to have to break
    the pics up into two posts.  The First
    one is from FF #243 and the 2nd and 3rd scans are from Silver Surfer
    #51.  


     

    In the
    Surfer Scans, Thanos prepares for battle against Thanos who is in possessio of
    the Infinity Gems.  He declares he is restored to his full might after
    absorbing the energies of a single world. 


     

    Let me know
    what you think here.   


      Quote:
      It was those storage supplies Korvac absorbed when Galactus was away from his ship that transformed him into the Enemy, making him the most dangerous entity in the universe.  He could absorb and add life energies from defeated adversaries to his own making him more powerful each time it occurred.
    From what I read about Korvac is that he absorbed/took in the information/knowledge and energy from Galactus' ship. Even though Galactus can travel/fly warp/ time travel without using a ship he prefers to do so because it requires no energy from him. Galactus also prefers to use a converter machine because it is more efficient with energy absorption than he is. 

    Yes it was a combo of the
    elements you stated.  



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