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The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,659


VS.


• Sarah Michelle Gellar's Buffy Summers takes on Jessica Alba's transgenic supersoldier, Max Guevara.

• They want to win, but are otherwise in-character.

• Fight takes place in Sunnydale High School Library (pictured below).

• Neither combatant is armed, but they can make use of anything in their surroundings, at their discretion.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



Buffy. I assume magic powers give her the edge over super science powers.

Reverend Meteor (my buddy once picked up a girl who claimed to be Jessica Alba's cousin...but I doubt it)






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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,551



General consensus I think, was Buffy was at least twice as strong, whilst Max may have had a minor speed advantage.

Buffy may have had better instincts (being a slayer), but Max likely had better training.

I think, we worked out Max could bench about 400lbs, whilst Buffy was around the Class 1 to 2 level (2,000 to 4,000lbs).

It's likely that Buffy's strength advantage is too much for Max, but that Max's more comparable strength to Angel and Spike, plus her speed makes her a favorite against these vampires.





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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,457



    Quote:



      Quote:
      I think, we worked out Max could bench about 400lbs, whilst Buffy was around the Class 1 to 2 level (2,000 to 4,000lbs).


    Really? A little while ago I made a post asking how strong Buffy was in comparison to Marvel characters or using Marvel RPG terminology, and the consensus seemed to be that she was Captain America strength at best.




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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,551









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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 735


and how they would stack up against other characters in the Buffyverse...

but I'm still hesitant to nail them down to a respective strength/power level, as I think its tough to compare.

I could reasonably see Max being shown as equal to Cap, or stronger and faster, if not as skilled...and I can almost see the same with Buffy.

I think Buffy could reasonably shown anywhere between Cap and maybe Beast (though beast has been listed everywhere from about 1 ton to 10 tons)....

On the following scale, I think the super soldiers and typical vamps go in the peak human category (with Cap being explicitly at the top of that level or in a level in his own right as per the link), with Dark Angel being in that exact peak human to low superhuman ballpark (probably low superhuman) and Buffy in that 'below 5 tons' or at most '5 tons' ballpark.

Characters like Kraven, Vermin, etc. are the sorts that I could see being good, appropriate Buffyverse villains, or for Max....

Yeah, thinking about it, a Kraven hunting Max scenario would be really cool.




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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 735


Max would be great in the Buffyverse. I think she could beat Kendra...


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The Shuruku Demon


Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 10,659


... is that he's typically around the 1000 lbs. mark, give or take a couple hundred pounds either way. I can't think of anything in terms of lifting feats that would put him anywhere near 5 tons level. And if there were such a showing, I think it'd be a huge outlier for him. I actually consider other strong humans like the Kingpin and the Ox to be stronger than Cap (you could argue that either one is unofficially superhuman in their own right, but I don't think either is 5 tons level).

As far as Max goes, I think you're probably right that she's not outright superhuman in strength. A 400 lbs. rating might be a little low, since I've seen her toss what was likely a 200+ lbs. man fully across a room and into a wall, but she's got nothing I can think of to put her clearly beyond Batman in strength. She is shown jumping out of third or fourth storey windows and landing fine, but that's a durability feat, and strength & durability don't always correlate.

Max's speed showings are quite impressive though, so I think she probably does surpass Buffy in that department. She runs short distances at super-speed, runs along walls, and in one scene, she was able to memorise the order of every card in a deck while flipping through them. I don't recall similar speed showings for Buffy, although it's been longer since I watched her series.

What sort of strength showings does Buffy have to put her at or near the 2 ton mark?




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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 735


Yeah, I pretty much agree (except for the time when Cap was given superhuman strength...IIRC it was the early 80's)...I do think he had a few showings where he was able to pull down a helicopter or something and break chains...things I would usually ascribe to someone a little higher on the list, but I think those are outliers.

As to Buffy's feats, its more by implication than anything else. I heard she showed significantly higher feats in the comic immediately following the season (that was supposed to be canon) because JW wasn't constrained by budget and special effects...

But I do know Spike couldn't come close to lifting the big troll hammer, and Buffy lifted it effortlessly. She easily lifted things like steel I beams that construction workers couldn't, etc. She also bent prison bars to escape at least once, and had some rock wall breaking and shattering feats that seem impresssive.

The respect thread does an OK job:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-universe-respect-thread-1748616/

The problem is she didn't show many feats....but the intent based on comments from Angel about her strength, her relative showing with the Troll hammer, etc. seems to be more significant. Its hard to quantify something like lifting the huge Iron Gate in season 3 that a large group couldn't budge, because in real it would probably be a ton or multi ton feat, but is the kind of thing Arnold S. barbarian type characters did in the 80's.


IIRC she also demolished most of a building during rough sex on one occasion, and while Glory was considerably stronger, Glory had some decent showings.

I also seem to recall an implication that Slayers got more powerful as they got older, which makes sense, as she certainly seems more powerful later on than in season 1.

All vampires are enhanced, but normal vampires can be fought by people, though some of that may be the mook effect...but elite Vamps were very scary, and the 'super soldiers' were already athletic and strong, and I'd probably put them above Batman in terms of strength when enhanced...but probably not to Cap level....

So, I think typically, if there were a crossover, I think most would write 'elite' vampires, especially the physical types as being a little stronger than Cap, but not overwhelmingly so...and more recently spawned and lesser vamps would be clearly weaker than Cap.

Buffy also had some good speed feats, but I think Max had significantly better reaction time etc...Buffy might be able to match her in a straight line sprint though...


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