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Author
Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,061


Someone recently mentioned Jane Thor in a post, and it got me thinking about how now we have female characters who are top tier in power level. But that hasn't always been the case. In the 60's we had Sue Storm who didn't yet have force field powers and Jean Grey with modest psi powers, but they were the weakest members of their groups. Come the 70's, they and other female characters became more powerful.

I was wondering, who's the first female Marvel character to have top tier power levels? Would it be Jean Grey as Phoenix? Who's the first female DC character to have top tier power levels? I suppose Supergirl or any kryptonian would count.

Battle of the Sexes:

The Guys:

Hulk
Iron Man
Quasar (Wendell)
Spiderman
Superman
Thor
Wolverine

vs.

The Gals:

Invisible Woman
Captain Marvel (Carol)
Jean Grey as Phoenix
Scarlet Witch
She-Hulk
Storm
Wonder Woman




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The outcome would depend upon the level of the Phoenix Force. At high end it could win by itself.

Matchup in the order listed
Round 1

Hulk vs Invisible Woman - Sue is powerful, but Hulk has always given the entire FF problems. He powers through Sue's force fields like he's done for 50 years.

Iron Man vs Captain Marvel (Carol)- Good fight, IM has his hands full but lasts to the next round.

Quasar (Wendell)vs Jean Grey as Phoenix - Depend upon the Phoenix Force, could be over in seconds, which would ruin the whole post. So, assuming a lower level Phoenix Force, Quasar still goes down but not as quickly.

Spiderman vs Scarlet Witch - Whoever strike first without mercy wins.

Superman vs She-Hulk - Not even close, Superman destroys her.

Thor vs Storm - Biggest mismatch in comic history. Just like in Contest of Champions 3 - Thor laughs at her attempt to use a storm against the God of Thunder.

Wolverine vs Wonder Woman - Not even close, WW destroys him.


Round 2

Hulk - Ironman - Superman - Thor
vs
Captain Marvel - Phoenix - Wonder Woman

Hulk helps Ironman beat Captain Marvel
Superman holds off Phoenix
Thor beats Wonder Woman

Round 3

Hulk - Ironman - Superman - Thor
vs
Phoenix



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Visitor


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Thing and Moondragon to the lists?


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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,061




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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
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>


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 617


Moondragon was depicted as top tier through the 80s.

Amora was a top tier threat in the silver age


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    Quote:
    Moondragon was depicted as top tier through the 80s.



    Quote:
    Amora was a top tier threat in the silver age


Blast you ssssssh! I'm using Moondragon (already stated her in my previous post) and another wildcard in my battle lineup.

Don't blow anymore of my cover!

x\(


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,578


I'll use the Phoenix from Uncanny X-Men #105-#134 except she won't be holding back in these fights.

Round 1:
Phoenix (Jean) beats Superman
Thor beats Wonder Woman
Hulk beats Captain Marvel (Carol)
Quasar (Wendell) beats Invisible Woman
Iron Man beats She-Hulk
Scarlet Witch beats Spiderman
Storm beats Wolverine

Round 2:
Phoenix (Jean) beats Thor and Iron Man but is hurting badly
Hulk beats Scarlet Witch
Quasar (Wendell) beats Storm

Round 3:
Hulk and Quasar beat Phoenix (Jean)

The women could have had a far stronger field though had Power Girl or Her/Kismet/Ayesha or Sersi been included.




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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 617


and IMO Moondragon, at least through the mid 80's was portrayed as a truly top tier powerhouse. I think she's trended downhill since, however.

IIRC DC had several powerful females too..Harbinger was impressive IIRC during Crisis, previously mentioned Supergirl, and as I said, Mary Marvel is probably the first major female powerhouse.

Some characters were in comics a long time ago, and implied to be very powerful, but I don't remember any real showings for Hela and Karnilla back then, even though they were introduced in the 60's...but Amora was very impressive in that time frame...

Frankie Raye became Nova in the 70's didn't she?...nope, on checking, she was a character through the late 70's, but didn't become a herald until 1982....still, quite a while ago, and a top tier...

Wasn't Kismet/Her/Paragon introduced in the 70's?

I don't remember much about Jade pre crisis, but she was pretty powerful I think, with Starheart energies like a GL

How powerful was Big Barda pre crisis? I mostly remember her in the late 80's to early 90's.

Back to Marvel, both Thena and Sersi go back to the 70's, but their best showings were later.

By the 90's, we have plenty of very powerful female characters being featured.


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That's not entirely fair. If you're going to allow Phoenix to not hold back then you have to have Thor and Superman not hold back either.

That would mean that Invisible Woman, Scarlet Witch, Storm and probably She Hulk are knocked out or dead in a few seconds - while the other one (Thor or Superman)along with Quasar engages the Phoenix.

Ironman - Hulk - Spider-Man - Wolverine beat WW and CM



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The Guys:

Hulk
Iron Man
Quasar (Wendell)
Spiderman
Superman
Thor
Wolverine
Thing
Surfer

The Gals:

Invisible Woman
Captain Marvel (Carol)
Jean Grey as Phoenix
Scarlet Witch
She-Hulk
Storm
Wonder Woman
Moondragon
Rogue

We will explore without including peak power levels: No Dark Phoenix, WW-Hulk, Rune Thor, etc, because those events are generally one-time or seldom event that occur. Yeah yeah it's nice to talk about their upper-peak potential of breaking apart planets, laying out other multiple top-tier elite characters, and taking out Sky-Fathers but it's not the norm for them and never will be.

Also let's try to keep popularity bias out of the picture shall we?

The *GUYS* won in Polygamist's initial presentation match-up quite easily by a landslide IMHO.

My goal here is to see if I can turn the tables realistically (if that's possible by pairing up good match-ups) giving the *GALS* their turn in the sun.

Let's GO!

Quasar vs. Captain Marvel - These two match-up well I think. Captain Marvel possesses super strength, flight, superhuman speed/durability/ reflexes/agility along with photon and stellar light energy blasts. She also has energy absorption and regenerative healing ability in her arsenal. Wendell wields the Quantum bands that enables him to tap into an unlimited energy reserve (Quantom Zone). Without getting into much detail about his capabilities, Quasar's attributes are on the same level as Carol. I equate some of his abilities to Green Lantern but the big difference is he can siphon energy from just about any energy source and turn it against his opponent giving him the win over Captain Marvel.
Win - Quasar

Surfer vs. Phoenix - This is a tough fight here. The only reason I chose Norrin to fight her over everyone else is because he's the best match-up against her. We all know how versatile a weapon the power cosmic is and there's no other female on the Gals list who can challenge Norrin IMHO (also Phoenix is truly at home in the cosmos). Jean took down Firelord another herald decisively without too much effort when he was single-handedly taking out the entire team of the X-men. Surfer is in trouble.
Win - Jean

Wonderwoman vs. Thor - I wanted to go with a different match-up for these two but they are a match made in heaven--God vs. Goddess, Prince vs. Princess, warrior vs. warrior. WW is non-arguably physically the top-tier female in both the Marvel and DC universe. She has gone toe-to-toe against Superman, can take an enormous amount of punishment, possesses flight, is trained as a skilled warrior, carries an unbreakable magic lasso, enhanced speed and reflexes, and bracelets that are used for both offensive and defensive capabilities. Thor on the other hand at the very least matches all of Diana's physical attributes and he's been a skilled warrior far longer fighting galactic/cosmic threats around the universe. While Diana won't go down easily Thor using a combo of Mjolnir's various powers (he also has the advantage of striking her from a further distance than she can) combined with the powers of the storm are too much for her to overcome in the end.
Win - Thor

Hulk vs. Moondragon - Hear me out here. Most on this forum will probably not be fond of me after what I write here, but what else is new? That's probably already the case so what do I have to lose? \:\) Believe it or not, this is a better match-up than it appears on paper. But for some of you will be difficult to sell. Out of the remaining Gals Polygamist originally introduced in this battle of the sexes, none of them has a chance against the Hulk after Jean and perhaps WW but they are both occupied at the moment against elite opponents of their own. Then I thought, is there another female out there in the MU who could be a true threat to the green giant? Enter Moondragon--while Heather doesn't possess the physical tools to slow the Hulk down, those aren't her bread and butter to begin with. Very few have the strength/stamina/durability to stand up to the Hulk but many have succeed in mentally taking control of his mind. In the past Moondragon has exhibited tremendous telepathic abilities. She once seized mental control of an entire alien world while concurrently telepathically controlling Thor to do her bidding. Hulk has no telepathic shields to guard his mind and if Moondragon strikes, especially if Hulk is in a calm state, she instantly gains control over him and can use him against the Guys. Anna is someone I hope you don't sell short here. She's capable of taking down any one of the Guys one-on-one.
Win - Moondragon

Iron Man vs. She-Hulk- Now things start to get interesting in trying to pair the remaining contestants off into competitive matches. Iron Man is a real problem here and only Jennifer (of the remaining Gals) has a legitimate chance to answer the call. Yes I'm well aware of Stark's super genius, the wide array of weapons (long range ones at that) at his disposal. But something tells me She-Hulk's immense super-human durability/healing factor can handle a lot of what is dished out. But in the end I just can't see it happening. Stark is too smart and Jennifer has too many limitations.
Win - Iron Man

Superman vs. Rogue (my wildcard) - The only question we must ask each other is this: Can Rogue absorb Clark's powers like Parasite can? If Anna can, and I don't really see why she would be unable to--she will attain all of Clark's powers and abilities. Considering these two have never met before and Clark's propensity for not wanting to engage against the opposite sex, I envision Rogue taking full advantage of the opportunity. After she's drained Clark, if she's smart (and she is, like in her Avengers debut) is to go after another big-gun on the Guys team to absorb either Thor or Hulk powers. Rogue is my wildcard and really helps tilts the favor for the Gals because she matches up well against Thor, Supes, or Hulk.
Win - Rogue

Storm vs. Spiderman, Wolverine, or Thing.
Ororo - Wins

Scarlet Witch vs. Spiderman
Parker -Wins

Invisible Woman vs. Spiderman/Wolvie- Can go either way. But I don't see how Parker can break Sue's defensive force-fields before she envelops him in one of her own. Against Logan, Sue should be able to use various techniques to stop Logan. Use an invisible platform to raise him to a great height and then let him fall, cut off his oxygen supply, etc.
Sue-Wins


Next round is Thor, Iron Man, Quasar, Spiderman (debatable) vs.

Phoenix, Rogue with Superman powers, Moondragon with controlled Hulk, Storm, Invisible Woman

Gals Win.

Thoughts?











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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,547


It depends what level SW is at. At her higher levels she is a major scale reality warper and the male team would be outright overmatched.




Look Raist bunnies...
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,578



    Quote:
    Quasar vs. Captain Marvel - These two match-up well I think. Captain Marvel possesses super strength, flight, superhuman speed/durability/ reflexes/agility along with photon and stellar light energy blasts. She also has energy absorption and regenerative healing ability in her arsenal. Wendell wields the Quantum bands that enables him to tap into an unlimited energy reserve (Quantom Zone). Without getting into much detail about his capabilities, Quasar's attributes are on the same level as Carol. I equate some of his abilities to Green Lantern but the big difference is he can siphon energy from just about any energy source and turn it against his opponent giving him the win over Captain Marvel.
    Win - Quasar


Actually, Carol is a big energy absorber as well, such that if she absorbs enough of Quasar's energy output, Carol goes Binary, which is a league above her normal self. I'd say this fight is at least 50/50 and today's Carol, getting the push she's had, would win more often than not.


    Quote:
    Surfer vs. Phoenix - This is a tough fight here. The only reason I chose Norrin to fight her over everyone else is because he's the best match-up against her. We all know how versatile a weapon the power cosmic is and there's no other female on the Gals list who can challenge Norrin IMHO (also Phoenix is truly at home in the cosmos). Jean took down Firelord another herald decisively without too much effort when he was single-handedly taking out the entire team of the X-men. Surfer is in trouble.
    Win - Jean


Agreed.


    Quote:
    Wonderwoman vs. Thor - I wanted to go with a different match-up for these two but they are a match made in heaven--God vs. Goddess, Prince vs. Princess, warrior vs. warrior. WW is non-arguably physically the top-tier female in both the Marvel and DC universe. She has gone toe-to-toe against Superman, can take an enormous amount of punishment, possesses flight, is trained as a skilled warrior, carries an unbreakable magic lasso, enhanced speed and reflexes, and bracelets that are used for both offensive and defensive capabilities. Thor on the other hand at the very least matches all of Diana's physical attributes and he's been a skilled warrior far longer fighting galactic/cosmic threats around the universe. While Diana won't go down easily Thor using a combo of Mjolnir's various powers (he also has the advantage of striking her from a further distance than she can) combined with the powers of the storm are too much for her to overcome in the end.
    Win - Thor


Agreed.


    Quote:
    Hulk vs. Moondragon - Hear me out here. Most on this forum will probably not be fond of me after what I write here, but what else is new? That's probably already the case so what do I have to lose? \:\) Believe it or not, this is a better match-up than it appears on paper. But for some of you will be difficult to sell. Out of the remaining Gals Polygamist originally introduced in this battle of the sexes, none of them has a chance against the Hulk after Jean and perhaps WW but they are both occupied at the moment against elite opponents of their own. Then I thought, is there another female out there in the MU who could be a true threat to the green giant? Enter Moondragon--while Heather doesn't possess the physical tools to slow the Hulk down, those aren't her bread and butter to begin with. Very few have the strength/stamina/durability to stand up to the Hulk but many have succeed in mentally taking control of his mind. In the past Moondragon has exhibited tremendous telepathic abilities. She once seized mental control of an entire alien world while concurrently telepathically controlling Thor to do her bidding. Hulk has no telepathic shields to guard his mind and if Moondragon strikes, especially if Hulk is in a calm state, she instantly gains control over him and can use him against the Guys. Anna is someone I hope you don't sell short here. She's capable of taking down any one of the Guys one-on-one.
    Win - Moondragon


Agreed. Hulk does have some level of psi resistance depending on which incarnation we're talking about, but Jean Grey in her Marvel Girl days was even able to put the Hulk down with psi so Moondragon should be able to against most versions of Hulk as well. And even if she couldn't, she could probably mentally calm him down enough that he turns into Banner, and then her vast martial arts skills ko's him right away.


    Quote:
    Iron Man vs. She-Hulk- Now things start to get interesting in trying to pair the remaining contestants off into competitive matches. Iron Man is a real problem here and only Jennifer (of the remaining Gals) has a legitimate chance to answer the call. Yes I'm well aware of Stark's super genius, the wide array of weapons (long range ones at that) at his disposal. But something tells me She-Hulk's immense super-human durability/healing factor can handle a lot of what is dished out. But in the end I just can't see it happening. Stark is too smart and Jennifer has too many limitations.
    Win - Iron Man


Agreed.


    Quote:
    Superman vs. Rogue (my wildcard) - The only question we must ask each other is this: Can Rogue absorb Clark's powers like Parasite can? If Anna can, and I don't really see why she would be unable to--she will attain all of Clark's powers and abilities. Considering these two have never met before and Clark's propensity for not wanting to engage against the opposite sex, I envision Rogue taking full advantage of the opportunity. After she's drained Clark, if she's smart (and she is, like in her Avengers debut) is to go after another big-gun on the Guys team to absorb either Thor or Hulk powers. Rogue is my wildcard and really helps tilts the favor for the Gals because she matches up well against Thor, Supes, or Hulk.
    Win - Rogue


If Superman is unaware of Rogue's powers, he's going to lose. If he is aware, then he'd use super speed to avoid her and blitz her for the win. Normally, Superman wouldn't resort to super speed, but it makes sense here.


    Quote:
    Storm vs. Spiderman, Wolverine, or Thing.
    Ororo - Wins


Against any one of them, Storm wins. Against all of them, she loses.


    Quote:
    Scarlet Witch vs. Spiderman
    Parker -Wins


This depends on how far apart they start. If Spider-Man can reach Wanda right away, he wins, but otherwise, I see her winning. She's a good deal tougher than she was 20-30 years ago with magic being a much bigger aspect of her powers now.


    Quote:
    Invisible Woman vs. Spiderman/Wolvie- Can go either way. But I don't see how Parker can break Sue's defensive force-fields before she envelops him in one of her own. Against Logan, Sue should be able to use various techniques to stop Logan. Use an invisible platform to raise him to a great height and then let him fall, cut off his oxygen supply, etc.
    Sue-Wins


Sue can beat both at the same time easily. She just puts them in a force field and they're trapped. Sue's fought Wolverine and beat him easily by putting force fields in his lungs and turning his eyes invisible.





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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,061



    Quote:
    Polygamist


\(loucheur\)

I'd thought about having Thing and Rogue originally but forgot to include them. Interesting that you included them.

So you're worried the Guys are too tough and you gave them the Silver Surfer?


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    Quote:
    Quasar vs. Captain Marvel - These two match-up well I think. Captain Marvel possesses super strength, flight, superhuman speed/durability/ reflexes/agility along with photon and stellar light energy blasts. She also has energy absorption and regenerative healing ability in her arsenal. Wendell wields the Quantum bands that enables him to tap into an unlimited energy reserve (Quantom Zone). Without getting into much detail about his capabilities, Quasar's attributes are on the same level as Carol. I equate some of his abilities to Green Lantern but the big difference is he can siphon energy from just about any energy source and turn it against his opponent giving him the win over Captain Marvel.
    Win - Quasar



    Quote:
    Actually, Carol is a big energy absorber as well, such that if she absorbs enough of Quasar's energy output, Carol goes Binary, which is a league above her normal self. I'd say this fight is at least 50/50 and today's Carol, getting the push she's had, would win more often than not.


You're probably right she gets the win due to the push she's had but I'm trying to keep popularity out these match-ups. I agree it could go either way which is why I matched these two up. I wouldn't argue at all Carol takes this.


    Quote:
    Surfer vs. Phoenix - This is a tough fight here. The only reason I chose Norrin to fight her over everyone else is because he's the best match-up against her. We all know how versatile a weapon the power cosmic is and there's no other female on the Gals list who can challenge Norrin IMHO (also Phoenix is truly at home in the cosmos). Jean took down Firelord another herald decisively without too much effort when he was single-handedly taking out the entire team of the X-men. Surfer is in trouble.
    Win - Jean



    Quote:
    Agreed.



    Quote:
    Wonderwoman vs. Thor - I wanted to go with a different match-up for these two but they are a match made in heaven--God vs. Goddess, Prince vs. Princess, warrior vs. warrior. WW is non-arguably physically the top-tier female in both the Marvel and DC universe. She has gone toe-to-toe against Superman, can take an enormous amount of punishment, possesses flight, is trained as a skilled warrior, carries an unbreakable magic lasso, enhanced speed and reflexes, and bracelets that are used for both offensive and defensive capabilities. Thor on the other hand at the very least matches all of Diana's physical attributes and he's been a skilled warrior far longer fighting galactic/cosmic threats around the universe. While Diana won't go down easily Thor using a combo of Mjolnir's various powers (he also has the advantage of striking her from a further distance than she can) combined with the powers of the storm are too much for her to overcome in the end.
    Win - Thor



    Quote:
    Agreed.



    Quote:
    Hulk vs. Moondragon - Hear me out here. Most on this forum will probably not be fond of me after what I write here, but what else is new? That's probably already the case so what do I have to lose? \:\) Believe it or not, this is a better match-up than it appears on paper. But for some of you will be difficult to sell. Out of the remaining Gals Polygamist originally introduced in this battle of the sexes, none of them has a chance against the Hulk after Jean and perhaps WW but they are both occupied at the moment against elite opponents of their own. Then I thought, is there another female out there in the MU who could be a true threat to the green giant? Enter Moondragon--while Heather doesn't possess the physical tools to slow the Hulk down, those aren't her bread and butter to begin with. Very few have the strength/stamina/durability to stand up to the Hulk but many have succeed in mentally taking control of his mind. In the past Moondragon has exhibited tremendous telepathic abilities. She once seized mental control of an entire alien world while concurrently telepathically controlling Thor to do her bidding. Hulk has no telepathic shields to guard his mind and if Moondragon strikes, especially if Hulk is in a calm state, she instantly gains control over him and can use him against the Guys. Anna is someone I hope you don't sell short here. She's capable of taking down any one of the Guys one-on-one.
    Win - Moondragon



    Quote:
    Agreed. Hulk does have some level of psi resistance depending on which incarnation we're talking about, but Jean Grey in her Marvel Girl days was even able to put the Hulk down with psi so Moondragon should be able to against most versions of Hulk as well. And even if she couldn't, she could probably mentally calm him down enough that he turns into Banner, and then her vast martial arts skills ko's him right away.



    Quote:
    Iron Man vs. She-Hulk- Now things start to get interesting in trying to pair the remaining contestants off into competitive matches. Iron Man is a real problem here and only Jennifer (of the remaining Gals) has a legitimate chance to answer the call. Yes I'm well aware of Stark's super genius, the wide array of weapons (long range ones at that) at his disposal. But something tells me She-Hulk's immense super-human durability/healing factor can handle a lot of what is dished out. But in the end I just can't see it happening. Stark is too smart and Jennifer has too many limitations.
    Win - Iron Man



    Quote:
    Agreed.



    Quote:
    Superman vs. Rogue (my wildcard) - The only question we must ask each other is this: Can Rogue absorb Clark's powers like Parasite can? If Anna can, and I don't really see why she would be unable to--she will attain all of Clark's powers and abilities. Considering these two have never met before and Clark's propensity for not wanting to engage against the opposite sex, I envision Rogue taking full advantage of the opportunity. After she's drained Clark, if she's smart (and she is, like in her Avengers debut) is to go after another big-gun on the Guys team to absorb either Thor or Hulk powers. Rogue is my wildcard and really helps tilts the favor for the Gals because she matches up well against Thor, Supes, or Hulk.
    Win - Rogue



    Quote:
    If Superman is unaware of Rogue's powers, he's going to lose. If he is aware, then he'd use super speed to avoid her and blitz her for the win. Normally, Superman wouldn't resort to super speed, but it makes sense here.



    Quote:
    Storm vs. Spiderman, Wolverine, or Thing.
    Ororo - Wins



    Quote:
    Against any one of them, Storm wins. Against all of them, she loses.


These fights are all one-on-ones match-ups. I was pitting Storm against each one of them individually. We agree on the outcome.


    Quote:
    Scarlet Witch vs. Spiderman
    Parker -Wins



    Quote:
    This depends on how far apart they start. If Spider-Man can reach Wanda right away, he wins, but otherwise, I see her winning. She's a good deal tougher than she was 20-30 years ago with magic being a much bigger aspect of her powers now.


No argument from me.


    Quote:
    Invisible Woman vs. Spiderman/Wolvie- Can go either way. But I don't see how Parker can break Sue's defensive force-fields before she envelops him in one of her own. Against Logan, Sue should be able to use various techniques to stop Logan. Use an invisible platform to raise him to a great height and then let him fall, cut off his oxygen supply, etc.
    Sue-Wins



    Quote:
    Sue can beat both at the same time easily. She just puts them in a force field and they're trapped. Sue's fought Wolverine and beat him easily by putting force fields in his lungs and turning his eyes invisible.


Probably so but I think Spidey has a chance (like against Wanda) if he can blind her with webbing then use his speed to get to her.




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    Quote:
    I'd thought about having Thing and Rogue originally but forgot to include them. Interesting that you included them.



    Quote:
    So you're worried the Guys are too tough and you gave them the Silver Surfer?


Yeah the Guys were too tough. Moondragon and Rogue are game-changer upgrades for the Gals. I put in the Surfer to keep the contest competitive (and number of participants even) but balance weight still swings to the women.

Do you agree with the result?




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If you're going to put individuals at their highest level then you have Rune Thor, Superman one Million and Worldbreaker Hulk.


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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,061




    Quote:
    Do you agree with the result?


Sure


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If this is an actual fight and not a comic trying to make money, then I don't see how they're game changers. One shot of lightening, heat vision or cosmic blast and they're dead - along with most of the other girls.


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In under 3 seconds Thor and the Surfer take out the whole team except Wonder Woman and Phoenix.

Then 10 seconds later Wonder Woman is done - leaving Phoenix alone.


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    Quote:
    If this is an actual fight and not a comic trying to make money, then I don't see how they're game changers. One shot of lightening, heat vision or cosmic blast and they're dead - along with most of the other girls.


Well it's one-on-one match-ups and Moondragon and Rogue aren't going up directly against Thor or Surfer.

And yes they can be game-changers IMHO.




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How does Rogue match up well against Thor or Superman?

Rogue is absolutely useless against Thor or Superman.
Either one fries her before she can get within 50 yards of either of them. One small heat vision or lightening strike and she's dead.

Also, they are both much quicker than her - especially Superman.


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    Quote:
    How does Rogue match up well against Thor or Superman?



    Quote:
    Rogue is absolutely useless against Thor or Superman.
    Either one fries her before she can get within 50 yards of either of them. One small heat vision or lightening strike and she's dead.


It would take a little more than that to bring her down per scans.

Edit: Did you consider everything (situation) I put into context against Supes?




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It's a group of one on one match ups.

Which means that Thor, Ironman or Silver Surfer know enough to take out Rogue quickly, even while fighting someone else.

If that's not allowed in the rules of this battle, then Spiderman - who knows Rogue well - wraps her up in webbing in a few seconds.

Rogue is useless against anyone who can strike her from 20 feet away - which is most of the men's team.

These guys zap her from a distance:
Iron Man, Quasar, Superman, Thor, Surfer

Spiderman wraps her up in seconds.

Hulk or Thing rip up the ground and flip it on her:

Wolverine is quick enough to stay away from her.

In an actual fight like this, without the writer trying to make it interesting, Rogue is completely useless and is killed first - because the guys know she could be a threat if not dealt with quickly.


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Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 737



    Quote:
    It's a group of one on one match ups.


Yes Sir.


    Quote:
    Which means that Thor, Ironman or Silver Surfer know enough to take out Rogue quickly, even while fighting someone else.


But She's not matched up against any of them. The rest are so occupied with their match-ups. I doubt they will be of much assistance.


    Quote:
    If that's not allowed in the rules of this battle, then Spiderman - who knows Rogue well - wraps her up in webbing in a few seconds.


Spiderman is going up against Storm or Sue. He'd be lucky enough to survive his fight never-mind help anyone else out.


    Quote:
    Rogue is useless against anyone who can strike her from 20 feet away - which is most of the men's team.


My scan in my other post below shows a different story.


    Quote:
    These guys zap her from a distance:
    Iron Man, Quasar, Superman, Thor, Surfer


Again, Quasar Surfer are under such intense pressure they aren't helping anyone. Rogue will take out Supes way before Stark and Thor defeated their opponents.


    Quote:
    Spiderman wraps her up in seconds.


Spidey isn't fighting her.


    Quote:
    Hulk or Thing rip up the ground and flip it on her:


Hulk is mind-controlled and Thing goes down to Storm


    Quote:
    Wolverine is quick enough to stay away from her.


Sue takes down Wolvie quickly.


    Quote:
    In an actual fight like this, without the writer trying to make it interesting, Rogue is completely useless and is killed first - because the guys know she could be a threat if not dealt with quickly.


Which is why she's only matched up against Supes. He has no idea what powers she possess.




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Member Since: Fri Jul 21, 2017
Posts: 107


So who picked the initial match-ups?

Also, anyone from Marvel just has to say, "Hey Supes, she's a power absorber, don't let her touch you - use heat vision"

Then he easily kills her.

You can't honestly think that Rogue is any threat to Superman.


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Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,061




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 737



    Quote:
    So who picked the initial match-ups?


The OP did and then I added a few tweaks.


    Quote:
    Also, anyone from Marvel just has to say, "Hey Supes, she's a power absorber, don't let her touch you - use heat vision"


If that was the case then everyone would be talking during the fight to reveal weaknesses and that seldom happens. Or they could be too far away and too occupied to get him the message.

Besides everyone wants to see an actual fight not have it short-changed by going that route.


    Quote:
    Then he easily kills her.


I wouldn't go that far. Supes doesn't kill and he especially holds back against women.


    Quote:
    You can't honestly think that Rogue is any threat to Superman.


Why not? Hasn't Parasite proven to be a serious threat to him? And Parasite is way less powerful than Rogue by far.




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Here’s my logic on this.
If you’re talking about this battle in a comic book then they would match up well and battle each other with both sides winning a few matches and going on to the next round.
That’s in a comic book, where an interesting fight is necessary to sell books and make money.

Now if you have a real battle with the powers of each hero. No names, just individuals with their powers – it’s almost no contest.

If you look at any neutral, unbiased list of the 25 most powerful superheroes you will see that the women’s team has two members on those lists.
# 14 - Wonder Woman
# 19 – Phoenix

The men’s team has at least 7 members on the top 25 of all time.
Including numbers 1, 2 and 3 – Thor, Silver Surfer and Superman.
Also on the lists are, Hulk – Quasar – Ironman – Wolverine

In an actual, all out battle – numbers 1, 2 and 3 have enough power to destroy the planet very quickly.
The only 2 on the women’s team that have a chance to survive their initial blasts would be Wonder Woman and Phoenix – the rest would be dead almost immediately – including half of the men’s team.

My point is that, in a comic book it would be a good battle that would last a while, with members from each team winning match ups.

However, if you look at the individuals and what they’re actually capable of – at NORMAL levels – it becomes no contest.
Thor has produced instant worldwide storms that most of the women couldn’t possibly survive. The Surfer and Superman have shown similar levels of EP. Plus they have Quasar – Ironman and the Hulk.
If it’s not in a comic book to make money, then it’s not even a close battle.

A more even battle would have been:
# 1 – Don’t give the men the Silver Surfer – that’s just overkill.
# 2 – Instead of Moondragon and Rogue, give the women a few Eternals, who could survive powerful attacks – such as Sersi and Athena.

Then the women would have 4 members who could actually survive the initial attacks of – non holding back – Thor, Superman and Quasar.



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