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BlackGhost


Member Since: Sun Feb 11, 2018


Odinforce vs Speedforce vs Power Cosmic

At the highest levels, which is more OP?




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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


They are all plot powers in the end.

The lamest name to me is the Speedforce.

It would depend on who is writing as to what they can do and so on but generally for the SF, it is more just one guy not using all of it so the Odinforce and Power Cosmic (Galactus) are more impressive.

Even with a herald, I would generally think are more impressive. Although the SF is capable of silly stuff at the high end.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


speedforce at highest levels dwarfs other 2!


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Chen


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,414




    Quote:
    speedforce at highest levels dwarfs other 2!


Perhaps but only in the DC universe, in the JLA/Avengers crossover it was shown to not exist while the PC does work in both universes and one can assume the Odinforce does to based on Thor's feats.



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UName


Member Since: Tue Mar 10, 2015
Posts: 1,163


Speedforce obviously sounds lame as h*ll.

Odinforce is a little better, but not that much.

Power Cosmic on the other hand, gimme some of that!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


speedForce primal force of reality!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Interesting that the IG failed to work over in the DCU also!

Mayne most powerful foreces blocked in other Universes then from functioning?


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Chen


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,414



Probably, no matter how fans like to merge and think that comics is one huge universe which all the companies live in, they don't. Besides superficial aspects the Marvel and DC universe are fundamentally different.



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Morgoth


Member Since: Thu Apr 09, 2020


So is the Power Cosmic. I think 1. PC 2. SF 3. OF


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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I am not sure that is true. Speedforce users are generally Flash level, which would vary from like EM to PM and possibly higher on good day.

The other entities are skyfathers. I am not aware of a Speedforce entity as such.




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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,815



    Quote:
    Odinforce vs Speedforce vs Power Cosmic



    Quote:
    At the highest levels, which is more OP?


If you take a fully fed Galactus, and whomever the Speed Force gives power to- it's not even a contest. The Odin Force fused a warrior race that conquer entire Galaxies- that lived in countless thousands separate worlds into one being; with one mind, one soul, and one body. Furthermore, at its peak the Odin Force could defeat the likes of Surtur. Mangog, etc. with just a wave of his hand. Finally, just a portion of the Odin Force was conquering the entire MU, and destroying worlds million of light years away; and with a wave of his hand Odin restored countless DESTROYED worlds located light years separate from each other, resurrected all of the inhabitants, and wiped out all of their memories.

A fully fed Galactus that needs a world to survive does not have that scope of power- and never will. The Speed Force which is composed of Anti- Matter, tachyon particles, etc. and can produce lightning, and manipulate time is not that impressive to me. Thor can LITERALLY throw Mjolnir at the the edge of the Galaxy, and fly back to him in less than 60 seconds flat (return trip). Thor does not need the speed Force to accomplish this feat; neither did Infinity who was destroying Galaxies at Warp speed, and destroying worlds millions of light years away AT THE SAME TIME!! Read the Saga.. Thus, Infinity had truly VAST control of Time and Space, and the unbelievable power to carry out Universal destruction on a large scale. Heck, even Thor carry out a feat once in which he threw his hammer, and it's speed literally transcended both Time and Space.

As far as Thor and his Spatial capabilities- he could simply throw his hammer at FTL speed and materialize mere inches from his opponent's face. If said speedster is running at 300 miles per hour, or 6000 miles per hour, or a 100,000 miles per hour- there's no way in hell he or she can avoid a collision when a hammer materializes right in front of him traveling at such speed . The combination of the speedster own speed and Mjolnir speed would be unavoidable. If Batman had this power- he would've eliminated quite many speedsters in the DC Universe by now.






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UName


Member Since: Tue Mar 10, 2015
Posts: 1,163



    Quote:
    speedForce primal force of reality!


I am not judging by in-universe importance of the powers/forces or any such nonsense, merely by how cool (or not!) they sound when saying their names out loud!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Fully Fed G was able to overpower Odin!


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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,815



    Quote:
    Fully Fed G was able to overpower Odin!


Not at his peak during the Silver Age..And this wash up Odin could've easily killed Galactus, but chose instead to headbutt him. A headbutt can potentially cause BOTH combatants serious injuries. It seems that the he writer went out of his way to protect Galactus. It's insane that any warrior with a spear in hand would choose to headbutt an opponent that has probably the biggest helmet in the entire MU, and Galactus helmet is not just for show- it's for protection.




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Unthinking


Member Since: Mon Jul 16, 2018
Posts: 1,133


An Odin Powered Thor casually killed Galactus, and, before he finished him off for good, he handily won all other rounds / fights in the same arc. It wasn't even close.
And that was the most powerful form of Galactus ever. So, I have no doubt on my mind that Odin Force > Galactus.

I am just not sure if Galactus is the ultimate wielder of the Cosmic Power. Maybe, the more powerful Cosmic Beings, like Celestials and Eternity, are powered by a different force...?




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Unthinking


Member Since: Mon Jul 16, 2018
Posts: 1,133



    Quote:
    Fully Fed G was able to overpower Odin!


Actually, that was almost a stalemate, as Galactus was also k.o.ed. He just recovered faster. Not sure if that counts as a victory. In real life, that would have been a double k.o..

And the most powerful of Galactus ever, who had just fed from 5 special planets that infused him with magic and other abilities, was casually killed by Odin Powered Thor.




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Immodicus


Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Fully Fed G was able to overpower Odin!



    Quote:
    Actually, that was almost a stalemate, as Galactus was also k.o.ed. He just recovered faster. Not sure if that counts as a victory. In real life, that would have been a double k.o..


Odin was KO'd by his own attack on Galactus.
While they both fell to earth the more pertinent distinction is that Galactus recovered and Odin never did.
At the conclusion of the story Odin was still struggling to stand on his own and admitted, "I lacked the STRENGTH to continue braining that monstrosity so I summoned the Destroyer".

The only time they looked comparable was during their game of psychic one-upmanship but Odin lost that one too despite Thor flying into Galactus' head and Galactus simultaneously fending off the Asgardian forces with his "cosmic demons".


    Quote:
    And the most powerful of Galactus ever, who had just fed from 5 special planets that infused him with magic and other abilities, was casually killed by Odin Powered Thor.


Correction, Odin Powered Thor who inexplicably developed the ability to steal Galactus' energies used Galactus' own power to kill him.






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Immodicus


Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020



    Quote:
    It's insane that any warrior with a spear in hand would choose to headbutt an opponent that has probably the biggest helmet in the entire MU, and Galactus helmet is not just for show- it's for protection.


The helmet is to help contain and regulate Galactus' energies, not protection.




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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I feel that may be an overreach from one writers opinion in one arc.

Previous conflicts appear to have them nearer and others arguably have Galactus as more powerful.

That appears to be an outlier to me more than anything else. Not to mention it did not make sense and royally messes up Galactus's origin tale.


As for your original point, they do not specifically do but their powers are effectively the same but they do not require to feed to maintain as far as I can tell. I imagine vast cosmic power would be the definition.




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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Fully Fed G was able to overpower Odin!



    Quote:
    Actually, that was almost a stalemate, as Galactus was also k.o.ed. He just recovered faster. Not sure if that counts as a victory. In real life, that would have been a double k.o..



    Quote:
    And the most powerful of Galactus ever, who had just fed from 5 special planets that infused him with magic and other abilities, was casually killed by Odin Powered Thor.


I think squaring either of these cruddy stories is pointless in my view. The later is more of an outlier to me and seems more of a shock moment to start a run than anything else.

It made no sense at all given past indications either as Odin in the past and Galactus alaways regarded one another as threats and dangerous.

To me it seems more like a bad example than THE example to indicate much of anything.

For that matter, there are other examples of this Thor having less luck against what should be weaker foes to this point.




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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,815



    Quote:
    An Odin Powered Thor casually killed Galactus, and, before he finished him off for good, he handily won all other rounds / fights in the same arc. It wasn't even close.
    And that was the most powerful form of Galactus ever. So, I have no doubt on my mind that Odin Force > Galactus.



    Quote:
    I am just not sure if Galactus is the ultimate wielder of the Cosmic Power. Maybe, the more powerful Cosmic Beings, like Celestials and Eternity, are powered by a different force...?


The Celestials have both Vast Cosmic Powers, Supernatural powers, and, probaby, the most incredible advanced technology in the Multiverse- that also includes creating NEW species across the Multiverse. It's not just creating new organisms, but adding consciousness, soul, and intelligence to them in the process. Galactus has experimented with this same process in a very limited fashion when he created Tyrant, but that went REALLY bad for him pretty quickly. Thus the Celestials Technology is pretty unparalleled in scope across the Cosmos, because they don't usually create beings that will represent a danger to them in the future. They know what they're doing. Moreover, Galactus does NOT possesed any Mystical Supernatural powers that I'm aware of..







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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,815



    Quote:
    I feel that may be an overreach from one writers opinion in one arc.



    Quote:
    Previous conflicts appear to have them nearer and others arguably have Galactus as more powerful.


1) The source of their powers differs quite a bit. One has VAST Cosmic Powers. The other has VAST Mystical Powers, and VAST Cosmic Powers, as well. In addition, they both possess VAST Psionics capabilities, but Odin had Galactus in a COMPLETE trance and quite vulnerable when he attacked him in their last encounter. The ONLY thing Galactus has over Odin is advanced technology; which is what he used when he first fought Ego. I think Odin looks down on advanced technology, because of his warrior MENTALITY. What Odin has decisively above Galactus is warrior skills, and the will power to NEVER give up. Thor had Galactus running for his life in their first encounter. Odin would've stayed and fight to the end.

2) The SA Odin power level is vastly superior to the Odin that fought Galactus. The SA Odin would've LITERALLY destroyed billions of Planets with just a wave of his hand. The Odin that fought Galactus would have REAL difficulties defeating Surtur; never mind The Mangog.

Conclusion: Galactus has VAST Cosmic Powers, and possesses advanced technology. Odin has BOTH Vast Mystical Powers, and VAST Cosmic Powers. The Celestials had VAST Cosmic Powers, VAST Supernatural Powers, and the most advanced technology there is. They probably fuse the three together somehow to become practically omnipotent. In addition, they all have VAST psionic capabilities.

As far as Odin and Galactus are concerned: Odin VAST Mystical Powers enables him to manipulate the same Cosmic Forces that Galactus manipulates; whereas, Galactus PC cannot manipulate the same Mystical energies that Odin manipulates.


    Quote:
    That appears to be an outlier to me more than anything else. Not to mention it did not make sense and royally messes up Galactus's origin tale.



    Quote:

    As for your original point, they do not specifically do but their powers are effectively the same but they do not require to feed to maintain as far as I can tell. I imagine vast cosmic power would be the definition.





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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,815



    Quote:

      Quote:
      It's insane that any warrior with a spear in hand would choose to headbutt an opponent that has probably the biggest helmet in the entire MU, and Galactus helmet is not just for show- it's for protection.



    Quote:
    The helmet is to help contain and regulate Galactus' energies, not protection.


Yes, but in order to contain those particular vast quantity of energies, the Helmet must be made of some of heavy duty material capable of holding said energies. It's only Logical!! I mean, it's not going to be made of the same material that the Iron Man's armor is composed of, but something vastly stronger and durable. In essence the Helmet not only contains and regulates his energies, but it serves as a form of protection as well.




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Unthinking


Member Since: Mon Jul 16, 2018
Posts: 1,133




    Quote:
    Previous conflicts appear to have them nearer and others arguably have Galactus as more powerful.


The double k.o. had them near. But that's the only example, and Galactus was fully fed. Thor had varying fights with Galactus, but we know his God blast can kill Big G, and that the God Storm is capable of making the Phoenix Force flee. So, I am inclined to think Odin should be the most powerful overall, as he put the God Storm inside Mjolnir, and has a greater power output than Thor.


    Quote:
    That appears to be an outlier to me more than anything else. Not to mention it did not make sense and royally messes up Galactus's origin tale.


Well, how many times did Thor and Galactus fight in that 6-issue arc? Three? Five? Given that the other direct confrontion of a fully fed Galactus versus Odin ended in a double k.o., I'd assume that Odin is the most powerful of the two.



    Quote:

    As for your original point, they do not specifically do but their powers are effectively the same but they do not require to feed to maintain as far as I can tell. I imagine vast cosmic power would be the definition.



There are cosmic entities far more powerful than Odin, like the Celestials, in a way that, if their power stems from Cosmic Power, Cosmic Power than trumps Cosmic Force.
With Galactus, you have an argument.


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Immodicus


Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020



    Quote:
    Previous conflicts appear to have them nearer and others arguably have Galactus as more powerful.



    Quote:
    The double k.o. had them near. But that's the only example, and Galactus was fully fed. Thor had varying fights with Galactus, but we know his God blast can kill Big G, and that the God Storm is capable of making the Phoenix Force flee. So, I am inclined to think Odin should be the most powerful overall, as he put the God Storm inside Mjolnir, and has a greater power output than Thor.


The Mighty Thor Annual #1 from 2012 showed that Thor's Godblast even when boosted by the life-forces of Silver Surfer and Rachel Geist (another Herald-leveler) wasn't capable of doing much more than getting Galactus' attention.


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BMarvel


Member Since: Fri Nov 17, 2017


Cosmic Power as it’s always been shown.
One bad bs Thor story is not gonna change decades of the power cosmic versatility and overall power. It’s wielders being able to have audience with the most powerful beings in the universe period or even challenge them if continually built up.
Thor did have the PC for his feats and ultimately it was the PC that destroyed the BW not Thor or the OF.
Reality and history without lane plot and fanboy writers clearly shows this.
Again Thor’s GB amped in 2012 barely registers Galactus attention.



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