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Incriptus


Location: Incriptus
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,738


So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at.

Do you mean singing about the life of a usually young urban black person? If so, then it might get a brief double-take, like when you see a guy singing an Alanis Morrisette song about being dumped or cheated on by some guy. But when you really think about it, isn't it kind of the point of these songs to get people outside of a given situation to understand the situation?

If you mean using the N-Word that often shows up in lyrics, then yes I've got a problem with it. I've got a problem with the word, period, regardless of who is using it.




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Incriptus


Location: Incriptus
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,738


So no difference between a white guy using the "N-Word" in context of a musical context. Equally bad in your opinion?

For example I'm currently listening to a song entitled "F----- with the wrong N-----". Now if you saw me singing the song, you would act no differently than if you saw an african american singing the same song?




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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.


I am utterly indifferent.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Yup. No differently. It would be obvious to me that you're singing a song, so I wouldn't go to extremes, but a certain degree of disgust would be there. IMO, flat-out, absolutely *no one* should be using the word, ever. Period. And I do think equally lesser of anyone who does use it, regardless of what colour their skin is.




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mjyoung





    Quote:
    So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.


No. The word "nigger/nigga" is no longer really used as a racial slur against blacks in pop culture today. In the same way, the words "gay" or "fag" are no longer really used as slurs against homosexuals. These words have taken on new meanings in today's culture.

As always, the culture is decided on by the youth, and the youth have embraced these new meanings. Coincidentally, South Park just did an episode on this subject last week (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_%28South_Park%29).

I'm trying to think of the last mainstream song that used the word "nigga" in it. Gold Digger by Kayne West? Then again, rap is pretty much dead.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.



    Quote:
    No. The word "nigger/nigga" is no longer really used as a racial slur against blacks in pop culture today. In the same way, the words "gay" or "fag" are no longer really used as slurs against homosexuals. These words have taken on new meanings in today's culture.

WTF?! This could not be further from the truth. And unless you're in Britain (or one of those places) and talking about a cigarette, the f-word for a gay person is still a slur.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/eveningnews/main5414362.shtml
http://www.gastongazette.com/news/gastonia-39841-roommate-attempted.html
http://www.wednesdayjournalonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=3&SubSectionID=3&ArticleID=15706
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/crestview-22006-lip-occurred.html
I could easily go on...

    Quote:
    I'm trying to think of the last mainstream song that used the word "nigga" in it. Gold Digger by Kayne West? Then again, rap is pretty much dead.

First time I heard someone say that was back in the late 80s. It's no more true now than it was then. Half of the current Top 10 is rap.




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mjyoung





    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        No. The word "nigger/nigga" is no longer really used as a racial slur against blacks in pop culture today. In the same way, the words "gay" or "fag" are no longer really used as slurs against homosexuals. These words have taken on new meanings in today's culture.



    Quote:
    WTF?! This could not be further from the truth. And unless you're in Britain (or one of those places) and talking about a cigarette, the f-word for a gay person is still a slur.


And I can say things like "That's gay" or "You're a fag" and those words and phrases would have no link to homosexuality. Go play any video game online. Again, this is about youth culture and how they use those words.

Much like blacks and the word "nigger", gays have even taken to using the words in non-derogatory and self referential ways.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I'm trying to think of the last mainstream song that used the word "nigga" in it. Gold Digger by Kayne West? Then again, rap is pretty much dead.



    Quote:
    First time I heard someone say that was back in the late 80s. It's no more true now than it was then. Half of the current Top 10 is rap.


http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100#/charts/hot-100

Please point out to me which of these songs would classify as rap? If you are unfamiliar with any of these songs and artists, just check wikipedia to see what genre they are listed under.

Since the mid 90s, the movement has been away from rap and into hip hop. Look at artists like Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Kayne West, Akon, T-Payne, etc. Most would be self-described hip hop artists. When was the last time you heard of a Rap radio station? XM Radio doesn't even seem to have any rap stations.


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Incriptus


Location: Incriptus
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,738


I remember the song Criminal

"I drank more liquore to F--- you up quicker than you'd want to F--- me up for saying the word" He isn't even brave enough to finish that sentence






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atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,487



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          So if a white guy is singing a rap song, word for word [you know what i'm getting at] would you have a problem with it. Would it somehow be worse than a black guy singing it.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          No. The word "nigger/nigga" is no longer really used as a racial slur against blacks in pop culture today. In the same way, the words "gay" or "fag" are no longer really used as slurs against homosexuals. These words have taken on new meanings in today's culture.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        WTF?! This could not be further from the truth. And unless you're in Britain (or one of those places) and talking about a cigarette, the f-word for a gay person is still a slur.



    Quote:
    And I can say things like "That's gay" or "You're a fag" and those words and phrases would have no link to homosexuality. Go play any video game online. Again, this is about youth culture and how they use those words.


i kinda agree with you on the whole N-word thing. but the homosexual slurs (particularly in video games), not so much. i've heard those words used more as derogatory slurs than common vernacular on Live and Playstation Network, and Microsoft has disallowed (and even banned) people who use the word gay in their gamertags. granted, they say it's because they don't allow references to any sexual orientation, but it's hard to accept that as anything but a tacit statement.


    Quote:
    Much like blacks and the word "nigger", gays have even taken to using the words in non-derogatory and self referential ways.



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I'm trying to think of the last mainstream song that used the word "nigga" in it. Gold Digger by Kayne West? Then again, rap is pretty much dead.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        First time I heard someone say that was back in the late 80s. It's no more true now than it was then. Half of the current Top 10 is rap.



    Quote:
    http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100#/charts/hot-100



    Quote:
    Please point out to me which of these songs would classify as rap? If you are unfamiliar with any of these songs and artists, just check wikipedia to see what genre they are listed under.



    Quote:
    Since the mid 90s, the movement has been away from rap and into hip hop. Look at artists like Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Kayne West, Akon, T-Payne, etc. Most would be self-described hip hop artists. When was the last time you heard of a Rap radio station? XM Radio doesn't even seem to have any rap stations.






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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    And I can say things like "That's gay" or "You're a fag" and those words and phrases would have no link to homosexuality. Go play any video game online. Again, this is about youth culture and how they use those words.

No. When people do that, they're actually either casting dispersions on a person's masculinity or saying something is as bad as being homosexual.

The incidents of the use of the N-Word as a racial slur are rising, not falling.

    Quote:
    Since the mid 90s, the movement has been away from rap and into hip hop. Look at artists like Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Kayne West, Akon, T-Payne, etc. Most would be self-described hip hop artists. When was the last time you heard of a Rap radio station? XM Radio doesn't even seem to have any rap stations.

There's no difference between rap and hip-hop, besides name.




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EcMan




I'd say yes that I would have a problem with it. Unlike some of the other topics in recent posts, the "N-word" is definitely a racial slur.

While rap artists and others have tried to adopt it as a more benign word, it would probably be better if it just went away.

-EcMan


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Rehzon


Location: Red Forest, Chernobyl
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



The N-Word shouldn't be used at all. I guess using the version that ends
in *igga* is okay on the street or in a rap. Saying the version that ends
in *er* is instant fighting words.

A white guy rapping using
"igga" is okay, just every time he says it is like scratching a chalk
board. \:\)



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thorfan




Different groups took words meant to be hurtful and demeaning and basically changed the meanings of those words, that's why two gay guys can call each other "fag" or two women can call each other the B-Word or the C-word or two blacks can call each other the N-word or rather nigga and it's cool, but it seems that it mostly bothers the people who wish to use those words in a derogatory manner i.e. the racists, the sexists, and the homophobes, who are always asking "how come blacks can call each other nigger but I csn't?

You know I have never had the desire to call an italian a "wop" nor does it bother me that they may call each other that, same goes for a latino should they choose to use the term "wetback" to each other or anyone else who took a negative and turned it into a positive. BUT since it gives the racists in the world a chance to call us hypocrites because we took a little power away from them then I guess it's best not to use it period.


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thorfan

BTW I didnt know rap and hip hop were different. Learn something new everday lol nt.





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atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,487


for the most part the two terms are interchangable. rap is the verb of rhythmically speaking. Hip Hop is both a culture, and the music genre where rap is the primary component.



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mjyoung





    Quote:
    i kinda agree with you on the whole N-word thing. but the homosexual slurs (particularly in video games), not so much. i've heard those words used more as derogatory slurs than common vernacular on Live and Playstation Network, and Microsoft has disallowed (and even banned) people who use the word gay in their gamertags. granted, they say it's because they don't allow references to any sexual orientation, but it's hard to accept that as anything but a tacit statement.


To be clear, these words are still derogatory. They just aren't used (solely) as slurs against homosexuals and and blacks.

Language is constantly changing, a fact that many here simply do not understand.


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thorfan




Thats what I always thought, but some people seem to think that they are different go figure.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Thats what I always thought, but some people seem to think that they are different go figure.





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thorfan




Rap is a part of the Hip Hop culture, it is the genre of the Hip Hop culture, I wouldnt include RnB as a part of hip hop.


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atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,487



    Quote:
    Rap is a part of the Hip Hop culture, it is the genre of the Hip Hop culture, I wouldnt include RnB as a part of hip hop.


true. also, R&B has singing and tonality, while Hip-Hop is spoken. and everything about R&B (from its more mellow, jazz-like melodies to the themes of its lyrics, which deal with love, relationships, or sometimes the general black plight) is usually much less in-your-face than Hip-Hop. if i'm not mistaking, the roots of R&B stem from both Blues and Jazz.





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atalkingdog




it is sort of like an adult writing a letter to santa claus.


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The Real Lance Eason




Not sure it would make a difference, but just trying to see what you meant.
I assume you mean a song with the so-called n-word (I hate that term! I understand the desire to censor the racial slur, but I feel like a 4th grader calling it the "n-word") in the lyrics?
It would be a little inappropriate for a white rapper to use that in most contexts, whether in their own songs or covering another artist's work. BUT I'd have to evaluate each case on its own merits, I suppose. There seem to be a LOT of different scenarios where this could occur.

As for some guy just singing along with a song he likes, I personally wouldn't see anything wrong with it, but I could certainly understand someone taking offense to it.

To complicate things further, I think the alternate version of the word which ends with an "a" in place of an "er" and is commonly used to denote a friend or associate or someone who has your back would be perfectly appropriate from most sources under most circumstances. But that's just me.


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