Community >> View Thread

Author
thorfan




I have been reading comics for over thirty years, I have followed the exploits of many characters from marvel, dc and other comic makers. I have seen alot change over the years some things for the better but many imo for the worse. And im wondering if thats because people that are too detached from making good comics are making all of the decisions.

Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.

People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"

And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now. I could point to more examples but you get the point, what im wondering is is this because Marvel is more "corporate" than it was in the 1980s and many decisions are made in a board meeting versus a writers head or am i just off base?







Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I have been reading comics for over thirty years, I have followed the exploits of many characters from marvel, dc and other comic makers. I have seen alot change over the years some things for the better but many imo for the worse. And im wondering if thats because people that are too detached from making good comics are making all of the decisions.



    Quote:
    Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.



    Quote:
    People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"



    Quote:
    And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now. I could point to more examples but you get the point, what im wondering is is this because Marvel is more "corporate" than it was in the 1980s and many decisions are made in a board meeting versus a writers head or am i just off base?



    Quote:


I blame Bendis.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.15 on Windows Vista
Gernot 

Manager

Location: St. Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,418


From what I understand/remember, Jim Shooter was a VERY tough Editor-In-Chief at Marvel throughout the 1980's. He pretty much eliminated "The Dreaded Deadline Doom" that went through Marvel's books for a good part of the 1970's. Spider-Man would be swinging through New York hunting Dr. Octopus thinking to himself, "Boy! I remember the FIRST time I met Dr. Octopus!" The story would then go on to reprint their first meeting.

I remember this sort of thing happening quite a few times back in the 1970's.

Shooter got a bad rep (especially after he left Marvel), but we didn't have to put up with reprints anymore. \:\)



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Hatman





    Quote:
    I have been reading comics for over thirty years, I have followed the exploits of many characters from marvel, dc and other comic makers. I have seen alot change over the years some things for the better but many imo for the worse. And im wondering if thats because people that are too detached from making good comics are making all of the decisions.


I've been reading comics for 16 years, but I grew up primarily on comics (often reprints) from the 60's to the 80's.


    Quote:
    Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.


Leaving hanging plot points has been happening since comics started; either the author/company just wants that plot point to die, a new author comes on board and doesn't want to pick it up, etc. This was even done by Stan the Man himself; during his run on the X-Men Professor Xavier was anguishing over his unsaid love for Jean Grey. Since this was never picked up on again I can only assume Stan or someone else at Marvel realized just how creepy that was and axed the concept, thank goodness.


    Quote:
    People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"


Who's come back recently with zero explanation?


    Quote:
    And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now. I could point to more examples but you get the point, what im wondering is is this because Marvel is more "corporate" than it was in the 1980s and many decisions are made in a board meeting versus a writers head or am i just off base?


The late comics point I agree with you on, I can't recall comics being late when I was younger. In some cases I guess Marvel is willing to wait for the big name talent (I can't see them giving the same leeway to someone just breaking in with Marvel) because they'll still have the sales.

The perception is usually it's the art holding up a book (JMS' run on Thor being an obvious exception), but we don't know when the artist gets the script so it could be the writer or the artist. In cases where an artist takes a while to draw a book I like the tag team approach some books have (when Green Lantern relaunched with Hal as the title character Carlos Pachecho would draw an arc, then Ethan van Scrier would do an arc, it was a great system that kept the book on track and showcased two brilliant pencillers).




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.5.5 on Windows XP
Jamo


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,062



    Quote:
    From what I understand/remember, Jim Shooter was a VERY tough Editor-In-Chief at Marvel throughout the 1980's. He pretty much eliminated "The Dreaded Deadline Doom" that went through Marvel's books for a good part of the 1970's.


With good reason. I'll take Shooter over Quesada anyday of the decade.
You had the petty bickering between Byrne and Claremont, Bill Mantlo wanting Spider-Man to have an illegitimate child running around and other little squabbles that went beyond the call of "creativity being restrained" and actually seeing print in the stories.
More info on that kinda stuff here:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=147

I'll take a reprint with today's production quality over a 2-3 month delay because said "big-name author" is a professed procrastinator and working on TV shows as well.






Ban "no text" posts!
Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows Vista
Jamo


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,062



    Quote:
    I have been reading comics for over thirty years, I have followed the exploits of many characters from marvel, dc and other comic makers. I have seen alot change over the years some things for the better but many imo for the worse. And im wondering if thats because people that are too detached from making good comics are making all of the decisions.



    Quote:
    Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.


There were some that were never followed thru back in the 80's. There were so many subplots in Uncanny X-Men that Claremont never got to and just kinda faded away. Of course, I think it's mostly because there were TOO MANY subplots and the editors chose to go with one rather than another.


    Quote:
    People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"


Well, kinda. Again, instances I can think of was the Leader supposedly getting disintigrated in HULK #225, yet showing up again HULK ANNUAL #11 and then later on in various sub-plots leading up to the storyline in HULK #280-284. No mention of how he survived the "death" in #225, yet a small mention that his Humanoids must have saved him in HULK #282.
Years later, when the Leader returned in HULK #331, there was no mention at all of how he survived his dunk in the lava at the end of #284. (I think it was mentioned in a letter column that Omnivac transported him at the last second.)


    Quote:
    And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now. I could point to more examples but you get the point, what im wondering is is this because Marvel is more "corporate" than it was in the 1980s and many decisions are made in a board meeting versus a writers head or am i just off base?


No, late books are just plain unprofessional. Yes, life happens and some things are beyond their control, but c'mon. JMS (on Thor), Jeph Loeb (on Hulk), Mark Millar (on the Ultimates and FF) have notorious reps with schedules these days or in the past. And one can make the argument that today creators are taking on different projects outside the comic industry or the technology makes it more difficult.
That's their fault.
They're given plenty of lead time to turn out a book and no one is forcing them to take on extra products but themselves.
As far as the technology, it's supposed to make things easier for them, not harder.
I'm reading the John Byrne FF Visionaries set, and am amazed at the work Byrne was putting out at the time. Just finished book #4. Read the back of it and the man was writing AND drawing both the Fantastic Four and Alpha Flight, as well as writing the Thing's solo series.
Bill Mantlo and Sal Buscema were cranking out both the Hulk and Rom on a regular basis and if memory serves me right, Mantlo had several minis and writing Spectacular Spider-Man and the Micronauts in `83 and `84 as well.
I think because the Shooter era (and beyond) gets such a bad rap for the heavy editorial influence, that there seems to be a reversal of it these days.





Ban "no text" posts!
Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows Vista
Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I have been reading comics for over thirty years, I have followed the exploits of many characters from marvel, dc and other comic makers. I have seen alot change over the years some things for the better but many imo for the worse. And im wondering if thats because people that are too detached from making good comics are making all of the decisions.



    Quote:
    I've been reading comics for 16 years, but I grew up primarily on comics (often reprints) from the 60's to the 80's.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.



    Quote:
    Leaving hanging plot points has been happening since comics started; either the author/company just wants that plot point to die, a new author comes on board and doesn't want to pick it up, etc. This was even done by Stan the Man himself; during his run on the X-Men Professor Xavier was anguishing over his unsaid love for Jean Grey. Since this was never picked up on again I can only assume Stan or someone else at Marvel realized just how creepy that was and axed the concept, thank goodness.


I think it was brought up again in the buildup to Onslaught.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"



    Quote:
    Who's come back recently with zero explanation?



    Quote:

      Quote:
      And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now. I could point to more examples but you get the point, what im wondering is is this because Marvel is more "corporate" than it was in the 1980s and many decisions are made in a board meeting versus a writers head or am i just off base?



    Quote:
    The late comics point I agree with you on, I can't recall comics being late when I was younger. In some cases I guess Marvel is willing to wait for the big name talent (I can't see them giving the same leeway to someone just breaking in with Marvel) because they'll still have the sales.



    Quote:
    The perception is usually it's the art holding up a book (JMS' run on Thor being an obvious exception), but we don't know when the artist gets the script so it could be the writer or the artist. In cases where an artist takes a while to draw a book I like the tag team approach some books have (when Green Lantern relaunched with Hal as the title character Carlos Pachecho would draw an arc, then Ethan van Scrier would do an arc, it was a great system that kept the book on track and showcased two brilliant pencillers).







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.15 on Windows Vista
Hatman





    Quote:
    I think it was brought up again in the buildup to Onslaught.


For the sake of the original point being made though, can you count a plot point that dangled for 30 years?

~Hat~


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.5.5 on Windows XP
Chris1962


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


I have to agree with the delayed shipping. It does get riduclous. On the flip side with comics costing either $2.99 or $3.99 (which seems to be the growing majority for me), it may not be a bad thing. Multiple titles on characters besides the X-Men and Spider-Man (both of which I have dropped) are getting to be a real big pain for me. John Romita said at the Orlando Megacon in 2001 that Marvel should concentrate on eight titles (not specifying which eight), but we know that that will not be happening soon. Maybe everything should shoot up to $4.99, and we will all wise up and stop buying. Or will we?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
thorfan




malekith comes to mind, as one who came back without explanation, at least not one that I have seen.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
EcMan




Just my speculation.


    Quote:
    Case in point...I remember in the 80s when every interlude actually led you into a new story today however a point can be made in a story and noone ever deals with it, the thought is just dropped like it never happened.


My impression is that some writers think this makes their book "more real". Random events and random conversation are part of real life and so it gets added to comics. I agree with you that it can be frustrating at times.


    Quote:
    People come back from the dead and sometimes there's no explanation for their return, that never used to happen no matter how lame the explanantion there always was one," i was shot into a rocket and before it hit the sun I managed to hit the eject button and some bird people carried me back to earth"


Writers don't want to get bogged down in continuity, so they won't reference a story from years ago unless it specifically advances their plot. Especially with bringing back villains, they just don't bother. I think this is in part because of trade paperbacks and new readers.


    Quote:
    And im sorry but i dont remember comics being late three months at a time in some cases the way they are now.


This is irritating to me too. It's all about the trade, though. They can't ship a fill-in issue because they don't want to ruin the trade. They don't hurry the artist or get a replacement because they want the art in the trade to be consistent. It is unprofessional, but then, I think writers and artists have always been that way. It was just masked better in the earlier eras. Also, the lure of tv, movies, video games, is greater now. That just makes it worse.

-EcMan


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2022 Powermad Software