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Author
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,483


this time last year, while at my girlfriend/fiancee's family, i was watching National Treasure 2 on Blu-ray on their (then) new 46" Samsung. there seemed to be this strange effect while watching it--something about the animation itself that i can't quite explain--sorta like there was no blur (maybe?), or that the animation was too quick for my eyes (again, i can't really explain it).

anyway, just over Black Friday we bought a 40" Samsung ourselves. while the picture is as crisp as the picture we saw on the 46" Samsung, we didn't have the strange effect with the animation. i researched our HDTV and noticed that it was "60hz" (i believe their 46" was 120hz). would this have anything to do with the strange, inexplainable effect i noticed on their HDTV and not ours? is this effect the result of a difference in either refresh rate or response time?



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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    this time last year, while at my girlfriend/fiancee's family, i was watching National Treasure 2 on Blu-ray on their (then) new 46" Samsung. there seemed to be this strange effect while watching it--something about the animation itself that i can't quite explain--sorta like there was no blur (maybe?), or that the animation was too quick for my eyes (again, i can't really explain it).



    Quote:
    anyway, just over Black Friday we bought a 40" Samsung ourselves. while the picture is as crisp as the picture we saw on the 46" Samsung, we didn't have the strange effect with the animation. i researched our HDTV and noticed that it was "60hz" (i believe their 46" was 120hz). would this have anything to do with the strange, inexplainable effect i noticed on their HDTV and not ours? is this effect the result of a difference in either refresh rate or response time?

You guessed correctly.

Refresh rate is the number of times per second that the picture refreshes itself. The higher the number, the faster the refresh (240 is better than 120 is better than 60). You also might see mention of "frame interpolation" or "frame repetition." These are methods used to increase the speed of the refresh. A "repetition" method repeats the previous frame at a faster rate. An "interpolation" actually creates an intermediary frame between two normal frames to give the appearance of smoother motion. This is all done to combat picture blurring during scenes with a lot of fast motion.

Response time is kind of the opposite, in that smaller is better (2 is better than 4 is better than 8). It shows the number of milliseconds (ms) between pixel refreshes. I think the average is 4ms. Some of the high-end sets are 2ms. However, be wary, because different manufacturers strangely use different seconds, and there's a lot of BS being bandied about in regards to response time.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Rexxy




What's the native resolution of the 40" Samsung? Was it 720p or 1080p TV's can scale the signal (1080p coming from a Blu-ray) to display it on a 720p TV. I have a 720p TV and the algorithms it uses to deinterlace & downscale a 1080i signal to my TV has some problems that show up as 'blurred' images on fast motion that has nothing to do with 60/120hz refresh rates. The same motion looks great when it comes from a 720p signal. You won't have any deinterlace problems going from 1080p to 720p since they're both progressive.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,483



    Quote:

      Quote:
      this time last year, while at my girlfriend/fiancee's family, i was watching National Treasure 2 on Blu-ray on their (then) new 46" Samsung. there seemed to be this strange effect while watching it--something about the animation itself that i can't quite explain--sorta like there was no blur (maybe?), or that the animation was too quick for my eyes (again, i can't really explain it).

      Quote:

        Quote:
        anyway, just over Black Friday we bought a 40" Samsung ourselves. while the picture is as crisp as the picture we saw on the 46" Samsung, we didn't have the strange effect with the animation. i researched our HDTV and noticed that it was "60hz" (i believe their 46" was 120hz). would this have anything to do with the strange, inexplainable effect i noticed on their HDTV and not ours? is this effect the result of a difference in either refresh rate or response time?



    Quote:
    You guessed correctly.



    Quote:
    Refresh rate is the number of times per second that the picture refreshes itself. The higher the number, the faster the refresh (240 is better than 120 is better than 60). You also might see mention of "frame interpolation" or "frame repetition." These are methods used to increase the speed of the refresh. A "repetition" method repeats the previous frame at a faster rate. An "interpolation" actually creates an intermediary frame between two normal frames to give the appearance of smoother motion. This is all done to combat picture blurring during scenes with a lot of fast motion.



    Quote:
    Response time is kind of the opposite, in that smaller is better (2 is better than 4 is better than 8). It shows the number of milliseconds (ms) between pixel refreshes. I think the average is 4ms. Some of the high-end sets are 2ms. However, be wary, because different manufacturers strangely use different seconds, and there's a lot of BS being bandied about in regards to response time.


cool. i heard from a store clerk that higher hz was better for gaming (especially with online competitive play) as players with higher hz sets were able to see what was going on more quickly than players with lower hz sets. when he told me this i immediately thought back the time i noticed the strange animation effect on the 46" Samsung, and that maybe that's what he was talking about. while i thought the effect was pretty cool (because it was new to me) it was still a bit jarring because i wasn't used to watching tv that way.

thanks for the info!





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,483



    Quote:
    What's the native resolution of the 40" Samsung? Was it 720p or 1080p TV's can scale the signal (1080p coming from a Blu-ray) to display it on a 720p TV. I have a 720p TV and the algorithms it uses to deinterlace & downscale a 1080i signal to my TV has some problems that show up as 'blurred' images on fast motion that has nothing to do with 60/120hz refresh rates. The same motion looks great when it comes from a 720p signal. You won't have any deinterlace problems going from 1080p to 720p since they're both progressive.


whenever i switch the source to HDMI2 (where i have my DirecTV receiver connected) i get a message saying 1920 x 1080i @ 60hz. when i switch it to HDMI1 (where i have my PS3 connected) the message says 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz. all the images through my PS3 (be it a video game or Blu-ray movie) look much crisper than DirecTV (even the HD channels), which leads me to believe my tv's native 1080p.

don't get me wrong; my HD channels look much clearer than anything i ever watched on my old standard-definition, but they still don't look as crisp as stuff through the PS3.

please, keep in mind this is all coming from someone who's far from tech-savy ;\-\)





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
Rexxy




AFAIK, no broadcast signals are in 1080p, i.e, all cable TV shows, satellite shows etc are broadcast in 1080i, 720p or lower. The only way to get a 1080p signal to your TV is thru Blu-ray/PS3.

When you see 1080i displayed, I belive that's the resolution of the signal being received by your TV, not necessarily what your TV is displaying. My 720p TV also will display 1080i on certain cable shows , while displaying 720p on others. The 720p shows always look better on my TV than the 1080i ones. Your manual would tell you the native resolution.

I'm waiting for my 25 year old 32" tube TV to go so I can move my 3 year old 37" HDTV down to that room and go help the economy by picking up a bigger replacement for where the 37" was. The tuner in the tube TV has gone, and I'm using a *gasp* VCR to receive the cable signal and route it to the TV. Soon as the new LED TV's get into my price range.....


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