Community >> View Thread

Author
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 649


What should the world do about it?

1)Leave them alone and let them build up whatever arsenal they want and stay out of their hair?

2)Continue asking for more sanctions from the rest of the world (that does not always get agreement)

3)Attack them in some form?

4)Invite them into the world and make them full partners?

5)Something else?


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,552


The sad thing is that all options won't work. Only one country can end this: China.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
Rehzon


Location: Red Forest, Chernobyl
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,589



North Korea is sitting on billions, maybe trillions in metals we need. Since they won't work with us, we're hoping enough sanctions will cause them to do something stupid like starting a war.





Posted with Samsung Mobile MMB29K on Linux
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 649



    Quote:
    The sad thing is that all options won't work. Only one country can end this: China.


They seem to benefit from the situation so yeah agree. Almost exclusive trade with them.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
Sumidor


Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
Posts: 115


I agree. China seems to be the key. Unfortunately, how much they intend to help rein in Kim Jong Un still remains uncertain.


Posted with Google Chrome 60.0.3112.113 on Windows 7
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,766


6) Totally destroy them, at least according to our President:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/world/americas/united-nations-general-assembly.html?mcubz=1




Posted with Google Chrome 60.0.3112.113 on Windows 7
Mikel Midnight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,321


They have their own tightrope to walk. I think they fear if they do try to rein him in, he'll just give them the middle finger, and then their LACK of real influence will be an open show.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
Trent Trueheart


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 544


They could solve a lot of problems if they stopped thinking of themselves as North Koreans and starting thinking of themselves as Koreans.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,532



    Quote:
    The sad thing is that all options won't work. Only one country can end this: China.


Agreed. Frankly, if China wasn't a player here, the USA would already have invaded North Korea. It is actually possible that North Korea could hit a United States protectorate like Guam with a nuclear weapon. People who are born in Guam are United States citizens by birth. The situation has reached intolerable proportions. Yet we can't lift a finger without China's concurrence. Unless and until a nuclear weapon gets fired in Guam's direction and actually explodes. From that moment on, China or no China, the USA will be in a shooting war with North Korea, which will last maybe a week, and only because the USA will be trying to minimize civilian casualties, which of course North Korea won't care about at all, despite the fact that those casualties will be North Koreans.







Posted with Google Chrome 60.0.3112.113 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 649



    Quote:
    They could solve a lot of problems if they stopped thinking of themselves as North Koreans and starting thinking of themselves as Koreans.





Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,552


The problem exists in the south, as well. Many South Koreans are starting to consider themselves South Koreans. Even the language is starting to fracture. The longer they remain separate, the further they will divide.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=15534

"It's so marked that architects from each side would probably have difficulty building a house together."

"...differences [of mutual unintelligibility] now extend to one third of the words spoken on the streets of Seoul and Pyongyang, and up to two thirds in business and official settings."


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 649



    Quote:
    The problem exists in the south, as well. Many South Koreans are starting to consider themselves South Koreans. Even the language is starting to fracture. The longer they remain separate, the further they will divide.



    Quote:
    http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=15534



    Quote:
    "It's so marked that architects from each side would probably have difficulty building a house together."



    Quote:
    "...differences [of mutual unintelligibility] now extend to one third of the words spoken on the streets of Seoul and Pyongyang, and up to two thirds in business and official settings."





Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,910



    Quote:
    Agreed. Frankly, if China wasn't a player here, the USA would already have invaded North Korea. It is actually possible that North Korea could hit a United States protectorate like Guam with a nuclear weapon. People who are born in Guam are United States citizens by birth. The situation has reached intolerable proportions.


Why is this intolerable? We lived with the Soviet Union's far greater nuclear arsenal for decades. North Korea knows that any nuclear attack from them means their own nuclear annihilation. What would be intolerable is if they gave a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group to use on the U.S., but again, if that was uncovered, North Korea would be obliterated. This latter scenario is much more likely to happen in Pakistan and few people are talking about that.


    Quote:
    Yet we can't lift a finger without China's concurrence. Unless and until a nuclear weapon gets fired in Guam's direction and actually explodes. From that moment on, China or no China, the USA will be in a shooting war with North Korea, which will last maybe a week, and only because the USA will be trying to minimize civilian casualties, which of course North Korea won't care about at all, despite the fact that those casualties will be North Koreans.


The casualties we have to care about is Seoul, a city of 10 million people, only 35 miles from the border with North Korea.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,532



    Quote:
    Why is this intolerable? We lived with the Soviet Union's far greater nuclear arsenal for decades. North Korea knows that any nuclear attack from them means their own nuclear annihilation. What would be intolerable is if they gave a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group to use on the U.S., but again, if that was uncovered, North Korea would be obliterated. This latter scenario is much more likely to happen in Pakistan and few people are talking about that.


If North Korea's leadership is as sane and prudent as you imply, then why are they pursuing their current course of action? Why shoot missiles provocatively? I don't trust them to be sane or prudent. Nevertheless, I don't want to see us invade them. Because China would view it as an act of war against China.


    Quote:
    The casualties we have to care about is Seoul, a city of 10 million people, only 35 miles from the border with North Korea.


The USA cares. North Korea doesn't. That's the difference. North Korea is an insane, moronic, and sadistic regime. The Soviet Union was merely sadistic.

Hopefully China will find a way to rein North Korea in.






Posted with Google Chrome 60.0.3112.113 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,552


Even at its worst, Russia wasn't close to being as insane as Kim.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,910



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Why is this intolerable? We lived with the Soviet Union's far greater nuclear arsenal for decades. North Korea knows that any nuclear attack from them means their own nuclear annihilation. What would be intolerable is if they gave a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group to use on the U.S., but again, if that was uncovered, North Korea would be obliterated. This latter scenario is much more likely to happen in Pakistan and few people are talking about that.



    Quote:
    If North Korea's leadership is as sane and prudent as you imply, then why are they pursuing their current course of action? Why shoot missiles provocatively? I don't trust them to be sane or prudent. Nevertheless, I don't want to see us invade them. Because China would view it as an act of war against China.


I don't think North Korea is sane or prudent, but I do think that they are into self preservation. Kim Jong-un provokes Trump as a point of pride. Do you seriously think Kim thinks he can survive a war with the United States? North Korea will do everything it can to maximize its nuclear capabilities precisely because it wants to be a sufficient threat to avoid a war with the U.S. The U.S. can obliterate North Korea, but will that be worth the loss of a single U.S. city? Kim is gambling no. What you're not considering is that Trump may be just as volatile as Kim.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/26/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-eerily-similar




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,108


It is a hard situation, but I would feel better if we did not have an egomaniac at the wheel. The threats do nothing but boost the NK's. As it is what they do.

A military strike is not warranted as of yet. If they attack South Korea, Japan or someone than it should be. They are going to be for their own preservation, so bombing the US would be out, just threats. At least in my view.

At the moment increased economic pain would be best but they have been under that for ages. Their people suffer quite a bit. And that feeds into their propaganda arm.

Unless the international community can majorly get China on board the options are a bit limited. The goal should be to get the international community as a whole in on this and do things as one.

It is not perfect at all, but it is the best approach, and continued approach. I have not heard reports of that happening though. Trump seems more likely to want the praise of dictators than traditional allies or have visible but pointless spats with China. So long as they approve his business interests.





Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,532



    Quote:
    I don't think North Korea is sane or prudent, but I do think that they are into self preservation. Kim Jong-un provokes Trump as a point of pride.


Doesn't poking the most dangerous dog in the world with the sharpest stick in the world (nuclear proliferation) demonstrate a lack of any self-preservation instinct? All North Korea would have to do is stop shooting missiles and the United States would ignore them completely. And that's precisely what Kim can't stand the thought of. Being ignored.


    Quote:
    Do you seriously think Kim thinks he can survive a war with the United States?


If he doesn't want one, all he has to do is stop shooting missiles. Only his missiles make him relevant.


    Quote:
    North Korea will do everything it can to maximize its nuclear capabilities precisely because it wants to be a sufficient threat to avoid a war with the U.S.


Why would we ever attack them if not for the stupid missiles? Do they have oil? God help them if they have oil. But I haven't heard that yet.


    Quote:
    The U.S. can obliterate North Korea, but will that be worth the loss of a single U.S. city? Kim is gambling no. What you're not considering is that Trump may be just as volatile as Kim.


Oh, believe me - I don't trust Trump to be the slightest bit rational. In fact I predict the day when his own staff need to tie him up and sit on him so he doesn't do something extinction-level-stupid.

All the more reason for Kim to just stop shooting missiles. Trump would go back to worrying about Mexicans and the national anthem.






Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 10

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2017 Powermad Software