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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 655


Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.


Posted with Google Chrome 48.0.2564.116 on Windows 10
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,817



    Quote:
    Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.



    Quote:
    Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.


How did he manage to keep 23 guns in a hotel room? I think part of the reason for that is because we live in a society were purchasing high powered guns is pretty much viewed as a noncommittal practice; because we live in a time where merely suggesting that we keep these types of firearms from civilian purchase is erroneously viewed as a political agenda instead of a step towards preventing mass shootings. This happened because we've reached a point where we can't even have a proper discussion about it.





Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.98 on Linux
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930


>


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930



    Quote:
    Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.


While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.


    Quote:
    Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.


He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.

I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
Bk Ray


Member Since: Mon Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 6,007



There is no need for the amount of fire power he had. It sounds like something out of a war zone.

I have used a semi automatic rifle with susat capability. There is no need for this type of firepower required to the public, it is killing level, there is no other need for it.

Let 9mm's be legal, let shotguns or single shot loading rifles be legal. All of these have stopping power, there is no need for the range and the rate of fire in the market.



Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 10
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,817





Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 7
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,817





Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 7
Trent Trueheart


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 557



    Quote:

    There is no need for the amount of fire power he had. It sounds like something out of a war zone.



    Quote:
    I have used a semi automatic rifle with susat capability. There is no need for this type of firepower required to the public, it is killing level, there is no other need for it.



    Quote:
    Let 9mm's be legal, let shotguns or single shot loading rifles be legal. All of these have stopping power, there is no need for the range and the rate of fire in the market.


We need to be able to protect ourselves from the government! What if we were stupid enough to vote a guy into the presidency who wants to throw people who disagree with him in jail? We need to be able to stand up to the government if that happens.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 56.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930


Right or wrong its Political, and it was the original posts question.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930


>


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,588


It was politicized the day after, if not the day of. At least my Facebook was filled with posts from people wanting to rethink gun control laws and of course the other side saying "how dare they use this tragedy to push an agenda" and such.

I read another article talking about how stricter gun laws in other countries had inconclusive studies done and it doesn't guarantee the prevention of mass shootings. It suggests we should instead focus on the types of people who commit gun violence and get them the social or mental help they need to prevent the cause of the shootings. Gang violence, abusers, the mentally ill. How to spot them ahead of time and get them some kind of help.

As for this case, they were saying that to have the amount of weapons, accessories and ammo he had, he would have had to bring like 10 suitcases into his room. The hotel staff had reported nothing out of the ordinary so I haven't seen an answer to that mystery yet.


Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488


that sounds harsher than intended but that sort of stuff started the first day. Into the next day. Everything is politicized. Every damn thing.


    Quote:
    Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.


I am confused as to why you think this is a bad thing? Those mostly making the case for politicization etc. are usually those that usually are just using the excuse to kick the can.

Many of the same ones were happy to politicize 9/11 and other events for their own well being. Right and left is guilty of this but I do not see why the pro-gun crowd gets off the hook here. The NRA for instance has some pretty insane ideas at this point that are not based on much more than folks fantasy beliefs and fear.


    Quote:
    Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.


Unless they had metal detectors coming into the place it would not be that hard. The bags would be heavy. And just put the do not disturb sign on the door. Or keep them in the bags. It does not seem too crazy.

Really, if you cannot talk about ways from stopping stuff like this from happening again or reducing it not long after than it will not happen. That is our attention span at this point.

But, we will not get anything out of this. Not even anything minor. If a school full of kids getting killed does not do much than nothing ever will. People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.






Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.



    Quote:
    While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.



    Quote:
    He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.



    Quote:
    I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.


They were bought from a few different shops and records are not allowed to be stored by the FBI. If you pass a background check they do not store your information anymore than that.

If you are clean than you could potentially buy however many guns you could without any red flags. Other than maybe the guy selling them to you questioning it. Just pick a few shops and mix in buying online. It is hypothetically incredibly easy.




Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.

            Quote:

              Quote:
              I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.



    Quote:
    They were bought from a few different shops and records are not allowed to be stored by the FBI. If you pass a background check they do not store your information anymore than that.



    Quote:
    If you are clean than you could potentially buy however many guns you could without any red flags. Other than maybe the guy selling them to you questioning it. Just pick a few shops and mix in buying online. It is hypothetically incredibly easy.


Any word on them banning the device that allowed him to turn them automatic? I heard it was legal but was being reviewed even before this happened.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:
    Right or wrong its Political, and it was the original posts question.


is political speech at this point. It is typically made by those that want to kick the can on the issue and never really seriously discuss any measure to help with the issue. Be in gun control, expanded mental health facilities or access or what have you. It all gets brought up and dies again.

That trend is fairly clear now. It is great to acknowledge the police, the good people who risked their own lives to help, the ambulance workers.

It is just ironic that the position of "The bodies are not even cold" is used to silence any speech or discussion about this.

We go on tirades about saving speech in some sectors of the country. Just not when it is affecting something a given group supports.






Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930



    Quote:
    People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.


This seems to be the problem. Maybe its being brain washed but I admit to not intrinsically liking the idea of preventing private citizens from purchasing guns.

But some of the pro-gun movements just leave me in shock. The anger over say the 3-day wait (for a background check) after purchasing a gun and actually receiving it left me baffled...If you (not you you \:\) )cannot wait 3-days to get your gun then you are just the person who should have to wait 3-days if not forever.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.

          Quote:

            Quote:

              Quote:
              Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.

            Quote:

              Quote:
              He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.

              Quote:

                Quote:
                I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        They were bought from a few different shops and records are not allowed to be stored by the FBI. If you pass a background check they do not store your information anymore than that.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          If you are clean than you could potentially buy however many guns you could without any red flags. Other than maybe the guy selling them to you questioning it. Just pick a few shops and mix in buying online. It is hypothetically incredibly easy.



    Quote:
    Any word on them banning the device that allowed him to turn them automatic? I heard it was legal but was being reviewed even before this happened.


It has been brought up in the Senate by Diane Fiensten (probably spelled that wrong). Some Republicans are open to the idea and many experts on guns seem to be open to the idea.

It is still an uphill push that largely depends on what side the NRA comes down on. It is not a gun, but it is a strange area.

Seems like it should be a no brainer at this point. It should be the minimum done to ban items like that. The other thing, IMO, is reform of the background check system and federal laws to improve consistency.

What I mean is right now we have a patchwork of laws that make it really easy to get guns in some states but not others, it would be easier to have a minimum set. The FBI criminal database is not consistent either. Most information is put into it voluntarily. So, it has big gaps in it as it is.

Also, noting or flagging individuals that buy lots of guns in short periods of time should probably be considered but anything approaching a registry has been an auto death in legislatures before.

To your point, it is being proposed. If it goes anywhere or not is another issue. And it largely depends on if the gun lobby is onboard. They have killed most legislation. Even fairly mild stuff in recent years.




Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Right or wrong its Political, and it was the original posts question.



    Quote:
    is political speech at this point. It is typically made by those that want to kick the can on the issue and never really seriously discuss any measure to help with the issue. Be in gun control, expanded mental health facilities or access or what have you. It all gets brought up and dies again.



    Quote:
    That trend is fairly clear now. It is great to acknowledge the police, the good people who risked their own lives to help, the ambulance workers.



    Quote:
    It is just ironic that the position of "The bodies are not even cold" is used to silence any speech or discussion about this.



    Quote:
    We go on tirades about saving speech in some sectors of the country. Just not when it is affecting something a given group supports.





Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 930



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.

            Quote:

              Quote:

                Quote:
                Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.

              Quote:

                Quote:
                He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.

                Quote:

                  Quote:
                  I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          They were bought from a few different shops and records are not allowed to be stored by the FBI. If you pass a background check they do not store your information anymore than that.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            If you are clean than you could potentially buy however many guns you could without any red flags. Other than maybe the guy selling them to you questioning it. Just pick a few shops and mix in buying online. It is hypothetically incredibly easy.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Any word on them banning the device that allowed him to turn them automatic? I heard it was legal but was being reviewed even before this happened.



    Quote:
    It has been brought up in the Senate by Diane Fiensten (probably spelled that wrong). Some Republicans are open to the idea and many experts on guns seem to be open to the idea.



    Quote:
    It is still an uphill push that largely depends on what side the NRA comes down on. It is not a gun, but it is a strange area.



    Quote:
    Seems like it should be a no brainer at this point. It should be the minimum done to ban items like that. The other thing, IMO, is reform of the background check system and federal laws to improve consistency.



    Quote:
    What I mean is right now we have a patchwork of laws that make it really easy to get guns in some states but not others, it would be easier to have a minimum set. The FBI criminal database is not consistent either. Most information is put into it voluntarily. So, it has big gaps in it as it is.



    Quote:
    Also, noting or flagging individuals that buy lots of guns in short periods of time should probably be considered but anything approaching a registry has been an auto death in legislatures before.



    Quote:
    To your point, it is being proposed. If it goes anywhere or not is another issue. And it largely depends on if the gun lobby is onboard. They have killed most legislation. Even fairly mild stuff in recent years.


Thanks for the info.

And as shocking as it might sound...I agree 100% with all you said. \:P


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488


To your first point. I agree, we cannot ban guns in the US. Partly because there are too many of them. Even if we all agreed on it, it is not possible.

I quibble a little bit with the notion that little can be done. One can argue for gun ownership but the idea of putting things in place to shift the curve. We do not have a good idea on what really works or not because research in the area is pretty poor and sparse.

People can do great harm, as you state, with all manner of things. Guns are a way of making it easier and something that can be done easily. The logic in most gun control is to make it harder at varying steps to set off a flag. Nothing would ever be 100% but at the same time not doing anything is sort of like throwing up our hands and saying so be it.

I do not understand, and you are not saying this in your post, why the whole criminals break laws so no new ones should be there caught on for this debate. It makes zero sense. By that logic nothing should be illegal and the courts etc. should not be.

The laws are in part about deterrance and another part about punishment.

At bare minimum in the US much needs to be done to fix the laws already on the books. Much has been done to weaken them in areas that are not logical. Would they have stopped the violence? Don't know but IMO we need to do better with what we have. If not outright ban the things that make semi auto weapons near full auto and some other things.

It still may not happen.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            While I think we need to be extremely cautious about gun sales I am not myself per se against them. As for terrorist acts...you build bombs with fertilizer and house hold chemicals. I don't think we can stop all such violence...until we do a mental change/shift culturally and educationally. The answer is not as simple as...don't let anyone buy any guns, prohibition does not work in this country.

            Quote:

              Quote:

                Quote:
                Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.

              Quote:

                Quote:
                He could have left a do not disturb sign out and walked it in piecemeal.

                Quote:

                  Quote:
                  I am more curious how owning that many guns on record I assume. How did that not set off any "watchdog" alarms.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          They were bought from a few different shops and records are not allowed to be stored by the FBI. If you pass a background check they do not store your information anymore than that.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            If you are clean than you could potentially buy however many guns you could without any red flags. Other than maybe the guy selling them to you questioning it. Just pick a few shops and mix in buying online. It is hypothetically incredibly easy.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Any word on them banning the device that allowed him to turn them automatic? I heard it was legal but was being reviewed even before this happened.



    Quote:
    It has been brought up in the Senate by Diane Fiensten (probably spelled that wrong). Some Republicans are open to the idea and many experts on guns seem to be open to the idea.



    Quote:
    It is still an uphill push that largely depends on what side the NRA comes down on. It is not a gun, but it is a strange area.



    Quote:
    Seems like it should be a no brainer at this point. It should be the minimum done to ban items like that. The other thing, IMO, is reform of the background check system and federal laws to improve consistency.



    Quote:
    What I mean is right now we have a patchwork of laws that make it really easy to get guns in some states but not others, it would be easier to have a minimum set. The FBI criminal database is not consistent either. Most information is put into it voluntarily. So, it has big gaps in it as it is.



    Quote:
    Also, noting or flagging individuals that buy lots of guns in short periods of time should probably be considered but anything approaching a registry has been an auto death in legislatures before.



    Quote:
    To your point, it is being proposed. If it goes anywhere or not is another issue. And it largely depends on if the gun lobby is onboard. They have killed most legislation. Even fairly mild stuff in recent years.







Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:

      Quote:
      People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.



    Quote:
    This seems to be the problem. Maybe its being brain washed but I admit to not intrinsically liking the idea of preventing private citizens from purchasing guns.


My point was not that people should not be able to buy guns. It is that there should be some common sense, IMO, things in place to make sure that nothing shady is happening. Guns are part of some people's lives. Great, but we should all be for safe ownership.

Guns are a tool, but a very dangerous one. A hammer is a tool too but can be used for varying functions other than violence. A gun's point is violence. Be it an animal or breaking a target or whatever. If it makes some people feel safer, than fine, but we need to acknowledge they are dangerous and owning one is a responsibility as much as anything.

Just seems anything that can be done to help make the path for questionable folks getting access is a step to take. We can disagree as to what is reasonable, but to me somebody having to wait a few more minutes or something is worth it.


    Quote:
    But some of the pro-gun movements just leave me in shock. The anger over say the 3-day wait (for a background check) after purchasing a gun and actually receiving it left me baffled...If you (not you you \:\) )cannot wait 3-days to get your gun then you are just the person who should have to wait 3-days if not forever.


Yeah, I would agree. I think there are a fair number of things that could be done but are apparently a minor set back to some average Joe getting a gun faster.








Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
fearcalypse 

INfinity and BEyond

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,121



    Quote:
    Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.


Hillary and Elizabeth Warren started in less than 24 hrs.


    Quote:
    Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.


House keepings job is to clean. A good keeper gets in and out ASAP. Besides that he probably had either a trunk or multiple bags they were concealed in. He was also rich, so having that many bags it was probably assumed that he was gonna stay for a while.

And all you have to do is put out the do not disturb sign on the door handle and House keeping won't bother you.








“James told me there’s an old saying here on Earth: ‘May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you’re dead.’ Not sure if Turian heaven is the same as yours, but if this thing goes sideways and we both end up there…meet me at the bar.”


Legion: "They will exterminate your species because their gods tell them to. You cannot negotiate with them. They do not share your pity, remorse, or fear."
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
fearcalypse 

INfinity and BEyond

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,121



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        This seems to be the problem. Maybe its being brain washed but I admit to not intrinsically liking the idea of preventing private citizens from purchasing guns.



    Quote:
    My point was not that people should not be able to buy guns. It is that there should be some common sense, IMO, things in place to make sure that nothing shady is happening. Guns are part of some people's lives. Great, but we should all be for safe ownership.



    Quote:
    Guns are a tool, but a very dangerous one. A hammer is a tool too but can be used for varying functions other than violence. A gun's point is violence. Be it an animal or breaking a target or whatever. If it makes some people feel safer, than fine, but we need to acknowledge they are dangerous and owning one is a responsibility as much as anything.



    Quote:
    Just seems anything that can be done to help make the path for questionable folks getting access is a step to take. We can disagree as to what is reasonable, but to me somebody having to wait a few more minutes or something is worth it.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      But some of the pro-gun movements just leave me in shock. The anger over say the 3-day wait (for a background check) after purchasing a gun and actually receiving it left me baffled...If you (not you you \:\) )cannot wait 3-days to get your gun then you are just the person who should have to wait 3-days if not forever.



    Quote:
    Yeah, I would agree. I think there are a fair number of things that could be done but are apparently a minor set back to some average Joe getting a gun faster.


But this falls apart when you realize that you can buy a rifle or shotgun and take it home on day one. A deadly bullet ( or pellets) to the chest is still a bullet to the chest.

Also, I am against the 3 day wait for handguns as I view it as a hamper to my 2A rights. No other reason than that. No sinister motives, I just feel it shouldn't be hampered or suppressed.







“James told me there’s an old saying here on Earth: ‘May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you’re dead.’ Not sure if Turian heaven is the same as yours, but if this thing goes sideways and we both end up there…meet me at the bar.”


Legion: "They will exterminate your species because their gods tell them to. You cannot negotiate with them. They do not share your pity, remorse, or fear."
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
Bk Ray


Member Since: Mon Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 6,007




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      There is no need for the amount of fire power he had. It sounds like something out of a war zone.

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        I have used a semi automatic rifle with susat capability. There is no need for this type of firepower required to the public, it is killing level, there is no other need for it.

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          Let 9mm's be legal, let shotguns or single shot loading rifles be legal. All of these have stopping power, there is no need for the range and the rate of fire in the market.



    Quote:
    We need to be able to protect ourselves from the government! What if we were stupid enough to vote a guy into the presidency who wants to throw people who disagree with him in jail? We need to be able to stand up to the government if that happens.


Then that president will be democratically elected. What if a civilian decides he doesn't like people who are better than him and starts killing them....

Even with your argument, a shotgun, rifle and revolver has stopping power.



Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 10
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:

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          People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.

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          This seems to be the problem. Maybe its being brain washed but I admit to not intrinsically liking the idea of preventing private citizens from purchasing guns.

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        My point was not that people should not be able to buy guns. It is that there should be some common sense, IMO, things in place to make sure that nothing shady is happening. Guns are part of some people's lives. Great, but we should all be for safe ownership.

        Quote:

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          Guns are a tool, but a very dangerous one. A hammer is a tool too but can be used for varying functions other than violence. A gun's point is violence. Be it an animal or breaking a target or whatever. If it makes some people feel safer, than fine, but we need to acknowledge they are dangerous and owning one is a responsibility as much as anything.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Just seems anything that can be done to help make the path for questionable folks getting access is a step to take. We can disagree as to what is reasonable, but to me somebody having to wait a few more minutes or something is worth it.

            Quote:

              Quote:

                Quote:
                But some of the pro-gun movements just leave me in shock. The anger over say the 3-day wait (for a background check) after purchasing a gun and actually receiving it left me baffled...If you (not you you \:\) )cannot wait 3-days to get your gun then you are just the person who should have to wait 3-days if not forever.

              Quote:

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                Yeah, I would agree. I think there are a fair number of things that could be done but are apparently a minor set back to some average Joe getting a gun faster.



    Quote:
    But this falls apart when you realize that you can buy a rifle or shotgun and take it home on day one. A deadly bullet ( or pellets) to the chest is still a bullet to the chest.


Sure, but I would be supportive of waiting periods for those too. I think there are more efficient ways of going about it than a waiting period. But if there was some reason for it improving things than fine.


    Quote:
    Also, I am against the 3 day wait for handguns as I view it as a hamper to my 2A rights. No other reason than that. No sinister motives, I just feel it shouldn't be hampered or suppressed.


Why? It is not suppressing your right to buy a gun or hampering your ability to get it. At most it is a delay.

The second amendment says nothing about things like that.


I do not think a waiting period is even the best tool, I express things I potential find usefule elsewhere, but most things at best delay a person from getting a gun. They do not stop a person from getting a gun if they have no record.

Which, one could argue is an issue in its own right. Pending what the end goal is.






Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,817



    Quote:
    that sounds harsher than intended but that sort of stuff started the first day. Into the next day. Everything is politicized. Every damn thing.


I've often wondered when did it get like this. It's like NFL players kneeling. I've lost count of the times I've heard people say players need to leave politics off the field, but to me, protesting how cops treat blacks is a matter of human rights, not politics. The same's the case with mass shootings; it stops being politics when people start dying.


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      Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.



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    I am confused as to why you think this is a bad thing? Those mostly making the case for politicization etc. are usually those that usually are just using the excuse to kick the can.



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    Many of the same ones were happy to politicize 9/11 and other events for their own well being. Right and left is guilty of this but I do not see why the pro-gun crowd gets off the hook here. The NRA for instance has some pretty insane ideas at this point that are not based on much more than folks fantasy beliefs and fear.



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      Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.



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    Unless they had metal detectors coming into the place it would not be that hard. The bags would be heavy. And just put the do not disturb sign on the door. Or keep them in the bags. It does not seem too crazy.



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    Really, if you cannot talk about ways from stopping stuff like this from happening again or reducing it not long after than it will not happen. That is our attention span at this point.



    Quote:
    But, we will not get anything out of this. Not even anything minor. If a school full of kids getting killed does not do much than nothing ever will. People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.


If anything these shootings seem to have the effect of making people buy more guns. Apparently bump stocks are now selling out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-paddock-bump-stock-gun-sales-las-vegas-shooting-latest-a7983741.html






Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488



    Quote:

      Quote:
      that sounds harsher than intended but that sort of stuff started the first day. Into the next day. Everything is politicized. Every damn thing.



    Quote:
    I've often wondered when did it get like this. It's like NFL players kneeling. I've lost count of the times I've heard people say players need to leave politics off the field, but to me, protesting how cops treat blacks is a matter of human rights, not politics. The same's the case with mass shootings; it stops being politics when people start dying.


Well, that. I would also add that many folks not wanting to talk about the violence would also (not in all cases) be among the first to jump down somebody as a terrorist if they were Muslim or of Arab descent.

This was called a lone wolf act pretty much right off the bat.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I am confused as to why you think this is a bad thing? Those mostly making the case for politicization etc. are usually those that usually are just using the excuse to kick the can.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Many of the same ones were happy to politicize 9/11 and other events for their own well being. Right and left is guilty of this but I do not see why the pro-gun crowd gets off the hook here. The NRA for instance has some pretty insane ideas at this point that are not based on much more than folks fantasy beliefs and fear.

          Quote:

            Quote:

              Quote:
              Also, in regards to this case, how did he manage to keep 23 (Was it 23?) guns in a hotel room? Did he never leave the room? Doesn't housekeeping check everything? It sounds kind of strange that he would be able to stockpile in a hotel room, especially in Vegas? Do they not check your stuff? I'm sure that things will change after this.

            Quote:

              Quote:
              Unless they had metal detectors coming into the place it would not be that hard. The bags would be heavy. And just put the do not disturb sign on the door. Or keep them in the bags. It does not seem too crazy.

              Quote:

                Quote:
                Really, if you cannot talk about ways from stopping stuff like this from happening again or reducing it not long after than it will not happen. That is our attention span at this point.

                Quote:

                  Quote:
                  But, we will not get anything out of this. Not even anything minor. If a school full of kids getting killed does not do much than nothing ever will. People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.



    Quote:
    If anything these shootings seem to have the effect of making people buy more guns. Apparently bump stocks are now selling out.



    Quote:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-paddock-bump-stock-gun-sales-las-vegas-shooting-latest-a7983741.html


They do, although the trend so far in the US has been that the people who own guns own multiple guns more than every person owning a gun.

People do it in the face of a scary world, since they want to feel safer. The bump stock thing is really confusing though and troubling. As it adds nothing to defense. My guess is that, after most of these things, any hint that the government could do something drives that community into a tizzy.

Gun sales and such were up under Obama for a reason. Despite the fact that he never did anything to take away anybodies ability to buy firearms. Even if the laws he wanted were in place it would not. I may be mistaken with regards to an assault rifle ban but I do not recall if he was for that in the white house.






Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,488


FYI, the NRA came out in support of additional regulations with regards to bump stocks. They requested the ATF look at it again and review if they are allowed under current law though.

The Obama administration ATF found that they were allowable under the current law. Given the language of the law. I heard the quote on NPR and admit that I found it confusing.

If that is the case, seems like Congress should act. Sanders, the press secretary, indicated the WH wants to be involved.

Still does not mean it will get done, but it makes it likely at least this very small gesture would get done. It would also be very hard to defend this from any sort of second amendment angle. As it is not doing anything with anybodies right to have a gun or not.

Should make it, but we will see. Universal background checks probably should have made it too, but small victories. Maybe




Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 7
Dragon Red


Member Since: Fri Jul 05, 2013
Posts: 863



    Quote:
    Every time some act of gun violence or some terrible mass shooting happens, we either get the media or some political pundits who start to call for stricter gun laws, or who are going to start bashing the NRA, etc. I'm wondering how long this will take. So far, luckily, it seems that people have been focusing on mourning the victims and praising the police. I hope that this remains the case. But I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before this starts.


As I said below in the jesusfan's thread (Cut n paste) There really is only one solution to the problem at hand.

Get rid of the guns. Get rid of the right to bear arms, get rid of sale of military grade weaponry to civilians. Just start getting rid of it all. Round up people who have these ridiculous weapons and turn them over.

In my opinion, there should not, nor should there ever be, a legal right to access something that can end the life of another human.

I read recently that to get a gun in Japan, you have to attend a class held monthly subject to availability and then pass a written test. You have to take and pass a shooting range test. Then you have to have a drug test, and a mental test which get filed with the police. Then finally you have your background thoroughly checked and if there is the merest sniff of criminal activity or being part of a group that is injurious or harmful to others you are denied. Then if you pass all that, you have to keep your weapon and ammo locked away in separate units. The police have to inspect your setup once a year, and you retake the gun class and the exam every three years. Japan has virtually eliminated gun death.

Sorting out guns in the USA I imagine will be akin to straightening teeth, its going to be painful, and take time. But that saying of omelettes and eggs is so true, it really does need drastic action or else shootings like this are just going to be par for the course of being an American, to be an American it seems, is to live in greater risk of being shot than in most other "western" nations.


Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.100 on Windows 7
Trent Trueheart


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 557


Well, that civilian has every right to own a gun (for some reason) and everybody has the right to own a gun in order to defend themselves from that civilian.

We need to have enough stopping power to take on the government, if it should come to that.

Don't you fear that your government might try to abuse their power?


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 56.0 on Windows 10
Trent Trueheart


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 557



    Quote:

      Quote:
      People's right to own guns or the march towards unrestricted access is more important than people's lives.



    Quote:
    This seems to be the problem. Maybe its being brain washed but I admit to not intrinsically liking the idea of preventing private citizens from purchasing guns.



    Quote:
    But some of the pro-gun movements just leave me in shock. The anger over say the 3-day wait (for a background check) after purchasing a gun and actually receiving it left me baffled...If you (not you you \:\) )cannot wait 3-days to get your gun then you are just the person who should have to wait 3-days if not forever.


Because a 3 day wait is infringing on my right to own a gun. For some reason.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 56.0 on Windows 10
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