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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Trump, who dodged the vietnam draft and was spooked every time he has looked in danger, said he would go in 'without question'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-43205259/fight-or-flight-would-you-confront-a-gunman

It's a tricky question. If I had no weapon and my daughter or niece was in the school, then yeah, I would go in, but without trying to confront the shooter, just trying to extract my daughter or niece and get out.

With a revolver, I would have felt I had to. I was speaking to my friend about this. A lone gunman with an automatic rifle, isn't going to be using marksmanship principles, he isn't going to be taking up positions, he is going to be presumably open, his stances are going to be too sh!t. He is going to be a predator without being used to moving targets etc. I think it is realistic that someone with, say a 9mm who knows what they are doing has maybe a 60% -70% of winning that encounter (remember the shooter still has better knowledge of the school, if Peterson is still too scared to go in). Not great odds, admittedly. If you are being deliberately cautious, then maybe 70% to 80%.


Thoughts?









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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,384


I would not, I may consider it if I had family in there, but it is a good way of getting myself killed along with more people. I do not have training to do much of anything. Me going in, armed or not, is pretty much expecting a lucky break or shot to save the day.

The probability of that, with fear, is pretty low. I would rather call the police and let them deal with it.

The only way I could see me doing or attempting much of anything was if I was already there, was trapped (alone or more likely with others) and the person was trying to get in. At that point, it is do or die and what do you have to lose?

Other than that, I am not going to try and be an action hero. Even if I am in that situation I am running or hiding. I would like to think I try to help some others get out if it is safe for us to go but that is probably the extent of my heroism.

I have found the trend of some, to blame the male students for not attacking the guy to be sad. It is coming from a hyper macho crowd and is sexist in its own way. Just because one is male does not grant you super powers and the ability to overcome fear at will. Some people have more of that drive than others, but there were many acts of heroics there. And those people showed more humanity than the clowns spouting off. People should be ashamed of themselves and their views of these things.




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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,736



that's just crap, they are teenagers, they aren't trained for this kind of thing, that's just ridiculous.







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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 23,608


Having lived in Florida, no, I would not go in Florida again. Ba dum bum.

Seriously, no. There's nothing I could do to help that situation and would be a liability more than anything. Burning building or something, yes, I probably would if it were family or friend.


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,174


I don't think that I would be able to live a conscience-filled life if I didn't. Also, there is a selfish reason that I have aside for that, but that's not the main reason.


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,174


By the time that they got there, it would be too late. Cops SOLVE and avenge crimes and murders, they don't STOP them. It would most likely be minutes before the cops or Swat teams got there.


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Incriptus


Location: Incriptus
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,385


As someone with little reason to live ... It's a win win, If I succeed I get to live a hero, if I fail I get to die a hero

However my heart knows that I'm a coward, so I think my lizard brain may very well take over and cause me to freeze up.




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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 23,608


Unless you have some sort of training, I'm not sure you'd be all that heroic if you failed. It's sort of like jumping into a volcano.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,452



    Quote:

    Trump, who dodged the vietnam draft and was spooked every time he has looked in danger, said he would go in 'without question'.



    Quote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-43205259/fight-or-flight-would-you-confront-a-gunman



    Quote:
    It's a tricky question. If I had no weapon and my daughter or niece was in the school, then yeah, I would go in, but without trying to confront the shooter, just trying to extract my daughter or niece and get out.



    Quote:
    With a revolver, I would have felt I had to. I was speaking to my friend about this. A lone gunman with an automatic rifle, isn't going to be using marksmanship principles, he isn't going to be taking up positions, he is going to be presumably open, his stances are going to be too sh!t. He is going to be a predator without being used to moving targets etc. I think it is realistic that someone with, say a 9mm who knows what they are doing has maybe a 60% -70% of winning that encounter (remember the shooter still has better knowledge of the school, if Peterson is still too scared to go in). Not great odds, admittedly. If you are being deliberately cautious, then maybe 70% to 80%.



    Quote:

    Thoughts?


I pretty much concur with you on all the scenarios. I would only go in unarmed if I were trying to rescue a family member. Otherwise, I'm just providing the opportunity to be another victim since surprising and then successfully wrestling down an armed gunman is highly unlikely to happen.

I'm not well trained but if I were armed, I would go in, but only if I knew the police were still some significant time away. The last thing you want to do is be misidentified as the gunman when the police arrive.

There is a 0% chance that braggart Donald Trump would have gone into the school, armed or unarmed, and 0% that this overweight 71-year old would have been able to do squat had he gone in.




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Bk Ray

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,736



I agree about Trump, he will never be in that situation, as he will always have a team of well trained, armed bodyguards around him.

To be clear, I wouldn't want to go in. If unarmed and my wife, brother or mum were in there, too bad. They're adults, I'm not going in.

The handgun thing, I don't know. If someone isn't trained, then that plays a big part. I don't want to sound like a braggart, but I'm assuming that in an urban situation Peterson would be at least as well trained as me, bearing in mind I have had minimal training with a sidearm, as we used SA80's as our personal weapons. Peterson also knows the layout of the school, that is critical in my opinion.

The Colt AR-15 appears remarkably similar, same rounds etc. Actually makes me sick that this is available.

I can't emphasise this enough, with a 9mm Browning, I wouldn't have confidence past 25 meters of taking down a target. A rifle, especially with a decent sight and automatic capability, I wouldn't have hesitated. Still would have gone in, though even with the 9mm.





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Gernot 

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Location: St. Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,418


Trump would go in ONLY if he had no other options to get clean toilet paper so he could clean himself up. More than likely though, he'd probably send in Eric or Jared first.



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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,384


particularly on conservative radio. I think Bill O' Reiley said something and so have others. As part of their varying claims of bravado.




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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,384


Maybe? It gets a bit more complicated depending on what the response time is but they very much do provide an end point. If the police never arrived than somebody would pretty much be free until they rain out of ammo or somebody got lucky with trying to stop them.

Many schools have off duty security that are police or similar too. They have not worked either. Really, at least based on our previous discussions, and if you want to be honest nothing will really stop the killings at that moment in time.

You may feel differently, but if somebody made that choice at that time and got the gun than they are probably going to hurt somebody.




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