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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 2,654



From Chris Cillizza, of all people.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-shutdown-state-of-the-union/index.html

Basically, Pelosi and Trump are in a sophomoric tit-for-tat game. Pelosi disinviting Trump to the SOTU led to this letter from Trump to Pelosi:

https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1085978219872964608

LOL.

As I predicted, democrats, although they think they're unscathed, are not. Despite current polling, as this carries on, both sides will be viewed at fault, not just Trump.





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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 2,654





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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,135


the Trump WH killed civility or even the illusion of it and we are not celebrating that?




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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,135


Your last statement is worded like your prediction was confirmed. Then in the next sentence you are saying that the polls say otherwise. I am not sure how your prediction was confirmed based on current evidence...you are confirming your prediction with a prediction.

It is possible that if it goes long enough the Dems will get dragged down too. But generally the party in power is punished more. Which has Trump in obvious power and then the GOP Senate.

Trump and the GOP could actually do something to turn up the political pressure and help their cause. Either Trump could agree to funding the government while this is worked on as a separate issue. Or add things to the pot that would be things that Democrats could not walk away from without getting punished by the public to some degree.

Trump will continue to get most of the blame, and rightfully so, until he learns to actually negotiate and not just demand what he wants and storm off if he does not get his way.




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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 2,654




    Quote:
    Your last statement is worded like your prediction was confirmed. Then in the next sentence you are saying that the polls say otherwise. I am not sure how your prediction was confirmed based on current evidence...you are confirming your prediction with a prediction.


Because polls follow where headlines are trending. People believe what they're told they should believe. So when you start seeing headlines like this taking sprout--

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/government-shutdown-that-began-over-border-security-now-a-petty-political-battle/

--it indicates that a shift is occurring. That democrats, who argued the moral high ground, are starting to be viewed as petty. That it's no longer just Trump responsible for the shutdown, but "they" (president + congress). "Shutdown began over border security, now a petty political battle."

1:00 - 1:12 of the clip is hilarious, haha.





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HammerTime


Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 2,654




    Quote:
    the Trump WH killed civility or even the illusion of it and we are not celebrating that?


There was never civility to begin with. But if you want to know who incited the flames out of proportion, it started here:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/nancy-pelosi-state-of-the-union-donald-trump/index.html







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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,135


You could have said that though. You followed up with saying polls were against you.

What Pelosi did makes it look much more partisan. However, I am not sure how that really helps Trump in any way either. Neither side will come looking great, but like I said.

It is historically not the party lacking power takes a beating for in the end. One could even cite polls, like I said, of Trump's core support faltering too. So while the Dems could start falling off as well, Trump still has a ways to go down too.

So it is not like he is winning the PR war on this.





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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 2,732


Personally? I think we are winning if both sides look like garbage. One side is too far right and one side is too far left. The extremism needs to stop.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,135


Only if you ignore studies that indicate the right has run further right than the left has moved left. Both are, but it is hardly an equal thing at the moment.

There is a fair bit of stupidity in running left but it does not matter really. The situation is what it is because every day people chose to do nothing or picked a side. Either way, it is every bodies fault in the end that things are this bad. The percentages may vary some but that is it.





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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 2,732


I'd ask "which" "right" and who did the studies and did they count things like the Georgia politician who insinuated illegal immigrants would vote for her and Beto saying we need ZERO borders.And yes I am well aware of the RIGHT being extreme(Trump says so many stupid things (and wrong) I cant even keep track of them anymore, just know he opens his mouth here comes more bs)...some very extreme. Not so sure I buy that its more the right then left though. 5-10 years ago...Tea party and such I can see that, but not today. Very skeptical those studies are at the least out of date/touch with current situation.We need straight shooters who speak their mind..in other words, non politicians in charge.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,135


All politicians selectively use studies. That was not what I was referring to. I was referring to asymmetrical polarization.

That one party is running to its extreme faster than the other party is doing the same.

I usually see folks here or elsewhere complain about how liberal democrats have gotten, but one never hears the same from conservatives on the whole. I am not sure if that is because most people just recognize that and want a moderate sort of party or what.

Does that research mean the left is flawless? Not at all. Identity politics are particularly bad on the liberal side and there are numerous other issues. It does not change that in terms of policy positions of conservatives in Congress and in places of authority that what once was an extreme position has become the norm.

You could argue that the rise of the Medicare for all in the last few years push is the same. And I would agree, but if one thinks that it took nearly two decades to get to a point the right was getting at before then on many issues than it puts it into perspective.





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