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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


The Onion prints this story after every massacre, but people either agree with this sentiment that defies all logic or want to do something but is stopped by the former group from passing legislation. So 10 days after the Buffalo shooting that killed 10, another mass shooting leaves 18 children (said to be 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders) and 2 adults dead. We've had the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, where 26 were killed, the Parkland, FL Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, where 17 were killed, the Columbine High School massacre, where 13 were killed. That's just the tip of the iceberg of mass killings that happen in the U.S.A. This is apparently the 30th shooting at a K-12 school in 2022.

Yes, guns aren’t solely the problem, but they are the easiest to deal with. Australia did it after a 1996 mass shooting with much stricter gun laws and there wasn't another mass shooting for 23 years. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

Which is easier, changing the mental health of a population or a massive gun buy-back program? Removing poverty and crime or stricter gun laws? Other developed countries have mental health issues, poverty, and crime, but none of them have the consistently higher gun death rate that the U.S. has. The difference? They have stricter gun laws. So yes, there is a way to prevent this because every other developed country does.




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bd2999 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    The Onion prints this story after every massacre, but people either agree with this sentiment that defies all logic or want to do something but is stopped by the former group from passing legislation. So 10 days after the Buffalo shooting that killed 10, another mass shooting leaves 18 children (said to be 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders) and 2 adults dead. We've had the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, where 26 were killed, the Parkland, FL Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, where 17 were killed, the Columbine High School massacre, where 13 were killed. That's just the tip of the iceberg of mass killings that happen in the U.S.A. This is apparently the 30th shooting at a K-12 school in 2022.


It breaks my heart. I do not understand the person who would want to do something like that and I do not understand the desire to do nothing.

Part of it is the US system is largely designed to resist change. So any effort to do much of anything has to make it through a needlessly complicated legislative process and then survive the arbitrary court system that is in place that year.


    Quote:
    Yes, guns aren’t solely the problem, but they are the easiest to deal with. Australia did it after a 1996 mass shooting with much stricter gun laws and there wasn't another mass shooting for 23 years. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365


Yeah, it is hard to argue that guns are not a major factor when they allow for killing on a large scale and that is really their only purpose at all.

The confounding factor would be the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment in some people's eyes. It is a vague thing really, but the modern conservative courts view it in the same light that would have been seen as extreme in the past.

Many other countries, to my knowledge, do not have that sort of problem as in their face and can deal with it more easily. It is ridiculous that the numerous deaths of children cannot even budge the needle anymore.

There are movements to band books, prevent kids from getting vaccines, from wearing masks and all manner of stupid things but when it comes to guns folks just throw up their hands and say my rights are more important than the lives of these kids.


    Quote:
    Which is easier, changing the mental health of a population or a massive gun buy-back program? Removing poverty and crime or stricter gun laws? Other developed countries have mental health issues, poverty, and crime, but none of them have the consistently higher gun death rate that the U.S. has. The difference? They have stricter gun laws. So yes, there is a way to prevent this because every other developed country does.


For sure.

One of the frustrating things to me is also that the arument often boils down to the fact that those who should be able to buy guns will have a hard time. To my knowledge most measures proposed (other than banning) would impose delays at most. Which are not a big deal.

There are too many guns. Heck, there should be all sorts of restriction on guns out there. And they probably would not prevent every gun crime in the US, but they would put more and more roadblocks up and prevent at least some of them.

The US has so many guns already out there that it is probably not possible to fix it all in a swing but it is the best solution to the problem in terms of immediate impact. Mental health is important, but also would not be a cure all or an easy fix either. It is the easy blame but most folks with mental illness are non-violent as well and many are undiagnosed because of the stigma around it and lack of available care that is made worse when movements blame mental illness.

I imagine it will be blamed on books, video games and movies though. As that is an easier culture war out than doing something that would actually make a difference.

Guns are the uniting factor and action on them is required to curb this. The underlying causes are varied and will require alot more effort to deal with. They need to be in the various forms, but the focus should be on things like support for appropriate staff in schools like councilors, identifying troubled folks and getting them help, but in the best case scenario those would be imperfect as well.






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The Avenger


Location: New Jersey
Member Since: Thu Dec 02, 2021


A nice article on the correlation between strict gun laws, low gun ownership, and low gun-related deaths, by state.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/strictest-gun-laws-by-state

Sadly, some states with strict gun laws are right next to states with lenient gun laws, so people can easily cross the border and buy their guns.



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bd2999 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008






    Quote:
    Sadly, some states with strict gun laws are right next to states with lenient gun laws, so people can easily cross the border and buy their guns.


I always found the trend to be pretty compelling and highlights the need for some ground rules on this sort of thing.

I know one poster child for stricter gun laws that gets pointed out alot is Chicago, but it is on the boarder with Indiana where it is fairly easy to get a guy, just like you pointed out.




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The Avenger


Location: New Jersey
Member Since: Thu Dec 02, 2021



    Quote:
    I know one poster child for stricter gun laws that gets pointed out a lot is Chicago, but it is on the border with Indiana where it is fairly easy to get a gun, just like you pointed out.



Which is why federal laws are important.

Here in New Jersey we have the right mindset and we're aiming to get even tougher, as this article explains:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/murphy-calls-for-more-gun-laws-after-buffalo-shooting-opponents-can-shove-their-thoughts-and-prayers/ar-AAXlkIV?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b7a979f28fb549cc945026b85c997a5b


I heartily endorse the "shove their thoughts and prayers" sentiment.



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atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,478


A bunch of preschoolers getting murdered in school changed absolutely nothing. Sandy Hook was our litmus test of sorts, and we failed spectacularly.

Mass shootings is American culture. Has been for some time. Probably won’t change until the Boomers (and some of Gen X) frothing religiously over 2A all die off.



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bd2999 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I know one poster child for stricter gun laws that gets pointed out a lot is Chicago, but it is on the border with Indiana where it is fairly easy to get a gun, just like you pointed out.



    Quote:

    Which is why federal laws are important.


Agreed




My state of residence has a goal of racing the other way.


    Quote:

    I heartily endorse the "shove their thoughts and prayers" sentiment.


I mean I think most people have the sentiment. Sorrow and empathy are the first step and continuing but actions need to be taken to reduce the chances of this happening at the frequency it is.

All mass shootings are bad. Ones involving children are nearly unthinkable to me. I am not a religious person, but of the various levels of Hell that could exist, people who do terrible things to children should be in the worst of it. Could be my own bias as a father though.






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