Fantastic Four: TWGCM >> View Thread

Author
Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155


There is something that I don't like in comics, especially Marvel comics : the overpowerful characters.
Sentry, Blue Marvel, Phoenix, Rick Jones... and Franklin Richards.
Once they are around, all the other characters become irrelevant because they are so powerful that they can fix anything, even death.
What's the purpose of heroes in a world where the most powerful "good" guys can turn all the villains into potatoes if they want to ?

I don't think that Stan Lee & Jack Kirby had planned that Franklin would become so powerful.
http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/ff_franklin.html

Karl Kesel proposed once a different approach in an alternate reality
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Franklin_Richards_(Earth-98)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earth1961.htm#Zero
This Franklin is a living portal to the Negative Zone.
It does make sense since Reed saved the life of his son by using cosmic energy coming from the Negative Zone.
I think that it is a great idea.
Franklin is still very powerful but not as powerful as Galactus or a Celestial.

I wish that somebody had a similar idea fort the Earth-616 version of Franklin Richards.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,537



I don't like the fact that he never really ages.

My father was like 6 when Franklin was born and I'm the same age my grandmother was when she became a grandparent.



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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,275


AND maybe even Image. The Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Parallax, Krona, all of the Green Lanterns, Flash, Guardians, etc. Marvel is a MUCH weaker universe. And I hear that Spawn has gotten quite powerful as well. And how is Rick Jones on the same level as any of those guys? Franklin being a reality warper is cool, not do to his powers or anything, but the fact that he's one of the most powerful mutants and he's about 12. That's an interesting concept.


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Count Dante


Location: Ad Pages in Old Comics
Member Since: Wed Aug 21, 2013
Posts: 3,215


It's not Franklin so much as a character as it is the way he is treated by the Marvel writers. He should be a young adult by now and used in more interesting ways.




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Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,558



Didn't Franklin have Galactus as a pet at one point?



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    Didn't Franklin have Galactus as a pet at one point?


Yes, he did (or a future alternate version did).

Even the Sentry, Blue Marvel, Scarlet Witch & Phoenix are wimps compared to Franklin.

Next time Thanos or Annihilus will threaten the galaxy, they should send Franklin (& Squirrel Girl as a cheerleader) instead of the Avengers, the Guardians of the Galaxy, the Nova Corps, the Ultimates or Alpha Flight, there will be less casualties.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-franklin-richards-is-comics-most-ridiculous-charact-1710157992




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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    AND maybe even Image. The Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Parallax, Krona, all of the Green Lanterns, Flash, Guardians, etc. Marvel is a MUCH weaker universe. And I hear that Spawn has gotten quite powerful as well. And how is Rick Jones on the same level as any of those guys? Franklin being a reality warper is cool, not do to his powers or anything, but the fact that he's one of the most powerful mutants and he's about 12. That's an interesting concept.


Contrary to what happened in other comics universes, Marvel characters were created as people who have to deal with their limits & their handicaps.

Currently, Franklin can solve any problem : Hulk's anger, the Thing's appearance, Daredevil's sight, the Multiverse's self-destruction ...


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    He should be a young adult by now


He can't, otherwhile Reed, Sue & Johnny would be too old compared to the other Marvel characters. Peter Parker, Johnny Storm & Bobby Drake are supposed to be of the same generation.


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:

    I don't like the fact that he never really ages.

    My father was like 6 when Franklin was born and I'm the same age my grandmother was when she became a grandparent.


In story, Franklin's powers might be the cause of Earth-616 characters never getting older.

Franklin might be dreaming the Earth-616 reality \:\-\)


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    And how is Rick Jones on the same level as any of those guys?


According to the Supreme Intelligence, Rick Jones has the latent power to create anything from his imagination.

It would be a latent power that every member of the Human species has (not just omega-level mutants) contrary to the Kree.

It would explain where the powers of the Sentry or Blue Marvel come from, or the abilities of characters such as Proteus, the Futurist or Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, or that many mutants have psionic powers.
Also, the powers of the Eternals, or what happen when Humans are submitted to the experiments of the High Evolutionary or some effects of the Terrigen Mist on mutants.

This idea was developed into the Earth-X comics series.
For example, on Earth-X, Odin dreamed the Asgardians.

While it is very poetic, I don't think that it should be a rule on Earth-616.


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Count Dante


Location: Ad Pages in Old Comics
Member Since: Wed Aug 21, 2013
Posts: 3,215


His reality warping powers may have accelerated his growth. Or, part of the Four's powers are that they don't age much from the time they were changed. Tons of ways to spin it.




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,537




    Quote:

      Quote:
      And how is Rick Jones on the same level as any of those guys?



    Quote:
    According to the Supreme Intelligence, Rick Jones has the latent power to create anything from his imagination.



    Quote:
    It would be a latent power that every member of the Human species has (not just omega-level mutants) contrary to the Kree.


So is the Destiny Force a manifestation of the X-Gene? The X-Gene is what the Celestials gifted the humans with. The Celestials gave the Eternals immortality and the Deviants their rapid evolution/mutations.

I mean that would open the door to almost everyone who has powers has the powers they subconsciously wished up.


    Quote:
    It would explain where the powers of the Sentry or Blue Marvel come from, or the abilities of characters such as Proteus, the Futurist or Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, or that many mutants have psionic powers.
    Also, the powers of the Eternals, or what happen when Humans are submitted to the experiments of the High Evolutionary or some effects of the Terrigen Mist on mutants.



    Quote:
    This idea was developed into the Earth-X comics series.
    For example, on Earth-X, Odin dreamed the Asgardians.


Final Fantasty X had that sort of plot too...


    Quote:
    While it is very poetic, I don't think that it should be a rule on Earth-616.






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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    So is the Destiny Force a manifestation of the X-Gene?

Or the other way around.


    Quote:
    I mean that would open the door to almost everyone who has powers has the powers they subconsciously wished up.


Yes, it was implied in multiple stories.

For example, 3 of the FF could have had the powers that they secretly dreamed about (Reed wanted to be more flexible, Johnny is a fan of Jim Hammond and Sue doesn't want to get noticed) and Ben Grimm might look like a monster only because he unconsciously feels that way about himself.

Hulk could be Bruce Banner's repressed anger.
The Leader could be Samuel Sterns' secret wish that he would become supremely intelligent.
She-Hulk could be the manifestation of Jennifer Walters' desires.
Spider-Man could be the trickster that Peter Parker, a former bookworm, had always wanted to become.
Etc.

Also, there are more than one example of "ordinary people" who suddenly become reality warpers on Earth-616 :
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Owen_Reece_(Earth-616)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/tippit.htm
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/skipco.htm
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/James_Braddock_Jr._(Earth-616)
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/James_Jaspers_(Earth-616)




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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,155



    Quote:
    His reality warping powers may have accelerated his growth. Or, part of the Four's powers are that they don't age much from the time they were changed. Tons of ways to spin it.


You want the return of Psi-Lord, don't you ? \:\-\)


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,537




    Quote:

      Quote:
      So is the Destiny Force a manifestation of the X-Gene?

    Or the other way around.
      Quote:

        Quote:
        I mean that would open the door to almost everyone who has powers has the powers they subconsciously wished up.



    Quote:
    Yes, it was implied in multiple stories.



    Quote:
    For example, 3 of the FF could have had the powers that they secretly dreamed about (Reed wanted to be more flexible, Johnny is a fan of Jim Hammond and Sue doesn't want to get noticed) and Ben Grimm might look like a monster only because he unconsciously feels that way about himself.


My fanwank theory on that has always been that they got powers relating to what they were thinking about during the crash.

Johnny was afraid they were going to burn up in an explosion
Reed was reaching for a control and couldn't reach it
Ben was thinking about hitting the hard earth below
Sue wanted to hide

and to take it further

Ironclad was thinking about metal wreckage
X-Ray was thinking about radiation exposure
Vapor was thinking about a gas leak on the ship
Vector was wishing he had a way to push their ship away from earth's gravity
Red Ghost was thinking he was going to come back as a ghost

And Shary had for a mere moment thought all her problems would be solved (fearing men after the implied rape by Power Broker's men) if she was a golem like Ben. No man would lust after her in that form.


    Quote:
    Hulk could be Bruce Banner's repressed anger.
    The Leader could be Samuel Sterns' secret wish that he would become supremely intelligent.
    She-Hulk could be the manifestation of Jennifer Walters' desires.
    Spider-Man could be the trickster that Peter Parker, a former bookworm, had always wanted to become.
    Etc.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,537




    Quote:

      Quote:
      His reality warping powers may have accelerated his growth. Or, part of the Four's powers are that they don't age much from the time they were changed. Tons of ways to spin it.



    Quote:
    You want the return of Psi-Lord, don't you ? \:\-\)


I would like some sort of clarification what really happened to him. Marvel's Multiverse being what it was he shouldn't have been erased. And where is his aunt Huntara for that matter?

We never hear about that Elsewhen dimension they grew up in anymore. What's Warlord Kargul up to these days?



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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,275


Even during the Stan Lee Silver Age, there were lots of powerful characters that were seemingly omnipotent. Odin, for example, seemed to be able to do pretty much anything (He was called Omnipotent Odin.), and then there was Galactus. Marvel has always had characters that had plot device powers. As to Franklin, I doubt that he can fix anything and everything. Matt'S blindness, for example. And definitely NOT the multiverse. He's not on the same level as the Molecule Man. Plus, he does tend to lose his powers a lot of the time, so.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,619



    Quote:
    His reality warping powers may have accelerated his growth. Or, part of the Four's powers are that they don't age much from the time they were changed. Tons of ways to spin it.


The FF were already de-aged somewhat back in FF #214.



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