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Iron Man Unit 007
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 5,139
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Subject: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 02:17:46 am BST (Viewed 897 times) |
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Episode picks up where the last one left off, as everyone starts to grieve, Wells 19 runs up to Joe and grabs his rifle but Savitar is gone and he realizes he is too late.
"Iris" (note the quotes) awakes in Barry's arms and uses the transmogrifier to reveal that she is Wells 19!
We ssee in Flashback that Wells 19 used the Savitar shard to find Savitar's base and rescue Iris. However the piece of Savitar armor flies from him and links back to the suit. Wells 19 then uses the device to switch their appearances.
KF knocks out fake Wells 19 and takes fake Iris prisoner again.
Cut back to the present as Wells 19 lays dying. Tracy runs up to him and they share last words, Wells 19 then has a message for Barry to give Cisco. He then tells Barry to stop Savitar and dies.
Joe notes that Savitar took the bazooka. Savitar stops KF from killing Cisco as he needs him to build something. Back in the Time Vault at STAR LABS, they check the future newspaper and the article about Flash disappearing is again written by Iris-West Allen.
However now Savitar's memories update. This is where the episode I think screwed up. As happy as they all were that Iris was alive and sad that Wells 19 was gone, they should have kept the illusion going to keep Barry ignorant and thus Savitar's memories do not update.
Note: this also changes the 2024 that Barry visited in that Wells 19 was alive in that time. Julian rejoins them at Star and is shocked that Wells 19 is gone.
Julian theorizes that the time paradox will erase Savitar when it catches up to him. Julian also reveals that he has a cure for Caitlyn, with an assist from her mother. It should rewrite her DNA and strip her of her powers.
Savitar wants Cisco to modify the speed force bazooka into an interdimensional quantum splicer. Savitar wants to open a speed force portal and be blasted with the modified bazooka so that he is fragmented through time but connected to himself and rule all of time from the big bang to the end. He reveals that he allowed them to build the bazooka early so that he could use it as his back up plan. Cisco refuses and Savitar threatens to kill KF, his memories then update to inform him that Julian has the cure for KF.
Once again everyone is being stupid, telling Barry key bits of information knowing that Savitar will learn, despite the fact that Savitar should disappear in a few hours.
Barry goes to talk to Savitar. Barry offers to help Savitar, he asks him to come back to STAR Labs for them to work to save him. Savitar appears to agree and they both arrive at STAR.
The rest are suspicious of him, but Iris shows him compassion.
They decide Tracy is their best bet, however she is not that willing to aid him after the death of Wells 19.
Iris decides there is one person that can reach her, and thus Wells 2 arrives to talk to her. He convinces her to help.
Question: if Savitar is erased wouldn't everything he did including killing Wells 19 be erased?
Iris convinces Savitar to bring Cisco and Caitlyn back.
After he leaves, the breach room overload and energy spews into the sky.
Savitar arrives at his lair and states Barry and crew were fools to believe him. He then tells KF to kill Cisco, Gypsy then appears and takes Cisco away! Gypsy vibes his danger across the multiverse and came to save him!
Savitar opens his time portal and uses KF to freeze and shatter the Black Flash!
KF hits Savitar with the gun and it starts to work then fails! Then out of the portal comes JAY GARRICK!
Vibe and Team Flash arrive, Vibe states he altered the cannon to be a KEY to open the SF cage to free Garrick!
Now get the three Flashes vs Savitar and Gypsy/Vibe against KF!
Vibe tossed KF the potential cure. Savitar then is about to kill Vibe, and KF blasts Savitar. Flash attacks Savitar and gets decked, Savitar vows to kill all of Barry's friends before he erases from the timeline. Barry then phases himself into the Savitar armor and pushes Savitar out of it. Barry is about to kill Savitar but realizes he will become Savitar if he does and then vibrates the armor to pieces and vows to never become Savitar and decks him.
Savitar tires to attack Barry from behind but Iris shoots him and then the paradox erases him.
Sadly it appears the erasing of Savitar did not undo Wells 19's death.
Iris gives the eulogy for HR and the others say their goodbyes to him. Barry gives Cisco the message from Wells 19.
KF shows up at the cemetary, she states she isn't Caitlyn or KF and returns the unused cure. She leaves them to go find herself.
Later as Irsi and Barry starts to celebrate when things hit the fan in a big way!
Teh SPEED FORCE starts to bleed energy onto Earth and Jay tells them that the Speed Force prison needs someone in it.
Barry intends to enter the Speed Force, he asks Wally to take over and Wells 2 to stick around and for Cisco to be a hero.
The Speed Force appears as Barry's mother and states this isn't punishment but that like all racers Barry has reached his finish line.
Barry says his goodbyes and walks into the Speed Force.
The Speed Force storm (which by the way seemed to make the skies RED) fades and Barry is gone.
End of Season.
Nice cliffhanger!
Is Barry really gone from the show for good? Eh, I guess it depends on his contract with the CW!
Or is this change forced upon the show by the impending Flash and Justice League movies?
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AnthSand

Member Since: Fri Oct 03, 2008 Posts: 566
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Subject: DISAPPOINTED... [Re: Iron Man Unit 007] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 05:34:41 am BST (Viewed 847 times) |
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I know I should feel happy that my theory was pretty close to spot-on. But the episode was very disappointing. I can't put my finger on it but it just didn't live up to my expectations. Admittedly, I don't know what I was expecting. And this from a guy who loved the musical.
Overall good season though. Over the past three seasons, we saw Barry face the Reverse Flash, Zoom and then finally himself. Now he's finally Top Dog Speedster. Wouldn't surprise me if next Season he emerges as Master of the speed force.
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Iron Man Unit 007
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 5,139
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Subject: Wasn't that bad :) [Re: AnthSand] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 08:20:34 am BST (Viewed 784 times) |
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Overall this Season of the Flash was enjoyable though some of the temporal illogic made my head hurt at times.
If Savitar's existence is indeed erased, then shouldn't his actions have never happened? Guess not as sometimes time still happens, regardless.
The Speed Force exists outside of time, so the Speed Force cage would still exist with in it. Though WHY the SF doesn't somehow destroy the cage now that Savitar is erased is a good question.
Nothing against Gustin, but I hope that Barry is gone for most of the season. I'd like for Wally to grow a bit as Kid Flash, also Jay can visit from Earth 3 from time to time and Jesse can return to be with Wally and work with him to keep Central City safe.
Wells 2 will be there as well and I suspect he and Cisco will be devoting much of their time to getting Barry out of the Speed Force, when they aren't fighting metas.
Also I am hoping that Cisco starts upping his game both as Vibe and with Gypsy.
Let Barry stay in the Speed Force for awhile, maybe show him viewing what is going on in our world and getting restless even as he learns new things about the Speed Force and his powers.
Also I can think of ONE way to get Barry back and to also hopefully prevent the creation of Savitar,....in a desperate move, Wally or Jesse hit time warp speed and go back to BEFORE Barry went back to create Flashpoint and tell him to not do it, thus the Flashpoint timeline we had in Season 3 undergoes a major revision.
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Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 11,689
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Subject: It was just so...awful [Re: AnthSand] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 01:28:14 pm BST (Viewed 692 times) |
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Quote: I know I should feel happy that my theory was pretty close to spot-on. But the episode was very disappointing. I can't put my finger on it but it just didn't live up to my expectations. Admittedly, I don't know what I was expecting. And this from a guy who loved the musical.
Quote: Overall good season though. Over the past three seasons, we saw Barry face the Reverse Flash, Zoom and then finally himself. Now he's finally Top Dog Speedster. Wouldn't surprise me if next Season he emerges as Master of the speed force.
I thought the finale was almost pure crap. And I've probably been lenient on the quality of this season since I disliked last season much more.
This is one of those annoying time travel mechanics related episodes that I just hate. The whole episode revolves around Savitar waiting for a time paradox to come and erase him...f*cking horrible. It should have been instantaneous so I could have been spared the rest of the episode.
That said...I didn't mind the whole Barry sacrificing himself to the speed force. It's what he deserved for Flashpoint and killing Sara Diggle.
I'd hate to have to explain this episode to a newcomer. You've got 2 Harrisons...neither from Earth 1. Harrison's from earth 2. HR and Gypsy are from Earth 19. Jay looks like Barry's dad but has a different name and is from earth 3. Savitar's Barry from the future (I think).

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Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 11,689
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Subject: Re: Wasn't that bad :) [Re: Iron Man Unit 007] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 01:39:55 pm BST (Viewed 782 times) |
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Quote: Overall this Season of the Flash was enjoyable though some of the temporal illogic made my head hurt at times.
Quote: If Savitar's existence is indeed erased, then shouldn't his actions have never happened? Guess not as sometimes time still happens, regardless.
Quote: The Speed Force exists outside of time, so the Speed Force cage would still exist with in it. Though WHY the SF doesn't somehow destroy the cage now that Savitar is erased is a good question.
Who was plugging the hole that is the speedforce cage before Jay? I have low memory retention with this show.
Quote: Nothing against Gustin, but I hope that Barry is gone for most of the season. I'd like for Wally to grow a bit as Kid Flash, also Jay can visit from Earth 3 from time to time and Jesse can return to be with Wally and work with him to keep Central City safe.
I don't dislike Gustin. As the Flash he works. But his work this episode as the villain Savitar...was just painful to watch. I never want to see evil Barry again...the actor can't pull it off. He comes off as emo not evil.
Quote: Wells 2 will be there as well and I suspect he and Cisco will be devoting much of their time to getting Barry out of the Speed Force, when they aren't fighting metas.
Where was Jesse? I mean the only 2 people in her life are Harrison and Wally and they were both on earth 1.
Quote: Also I am hoping that Cisco starts upping his game both as Vibe and with Gypsy.
Has Cisco gotten laid yet during this series? Caitlin's slamming ass all over the place but Cisco never gets lucky with any of his love interests.
Quote: Let Barry stay in the Speed Force for awhile, maybe show him viewing what is going on in our world and getting restless even as he learns new things about the Speed Force and his powers.
Quote: Also I can think of ONE way to get Barry back and to also hopefully prevent the creation of Savitar,....in a desperate move, Wally or Jesse hit time warp speed and go back to BEFORE Barry went back to create Flashpoint and tell him to not do it, thus the Flashpoint timeline we had in Season 3 undergoes a major revision.
Yeah but they're not supposed to do what Barry did. I think Jay will be ticked. Ever time you mess with time there's a repercussion you have to live with.

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Iron Man Unit 007
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Subject: Re: Wasn't that bad :) [Re: Reverend Meteor] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 02:12:26 pm BST (Viewed 750 times) |
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First Savitar was in the trap, then he tricked Wally into replacing him, then Barry enters the Speed Force to get him, Jay arrives to assist and stays in the trap to free Wally.
Yeah, Savitar seemed more emo then evil at times.
Jesse went to Earth 3 to keep things safe there until Jay was freed.
Cisco's dating life seems non-existent. Here's hoping Gypsy changes that.
Yes there are repercussions to changing time, and things might be worse if they prevent Flashpoint. However Black Flash was frozen and shattered so unless the Speed Force can recreate him, he's done.
Come to think of it, what did happen to his pieces?
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The Black Guardian
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Location: Paragon City, RI Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 26,724
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Subject: Re: Wasn't that bad :) [Re: Iron Man Unit 007] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 02:45:15 pm BST (Viewed 670 times) |
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Frankly, I really can't see Wally being a front guy. He's already the least interesting character of the series. I predict Barry will be back soon enough.
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CajunSpeedster

Member Since: Wed Jan 27, 2016 Posts: 94
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: Iron Man Unit 007] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 03:28:19 pm BST (Viewed 840 times) |
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Not a bad episode but others have voiced my concern(s).
However, I am disappointed at how easily Black Flash was defeated. I'm not sure why RF feared him so much if all he had to do was freeze him. If that's so why didn't RF have Snart do the same thing?
As for the SF trap . . . The SF has never stated which speedster had to be in the trap. Why not trick/force Thawne or Zoom into the trap? The SF was not happy with them anyway. Instead of sending the Black Flash to erase Thawne why didn't the SF capture Thawne and put him in the trap?
I agree with the other post saying that Season 4 is a good opportunity to decrease BA'a appearances and let Wally take the mantle for awhile. I'd like to see Wally as the Flash and also see more of Jesse Quick and Jay G (as the other post said).
Finally, Cisco and Gypsy? EEEEWWWWW! They are the same person just from different dimensions ie Gypsy is the Cisco of Earth 19. I like myself but would never date myself and certainly not . . . with myself.
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Knight

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 9,853
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Subject: We called it! [Re: AnthSand] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 07:17:42 pm BST (Viewed 628 times) |
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Quote: I know I should feel happy that my theory was pretty close to spot-on. But the episode was very disappointing. I can't put my finger on it but it just didn't live up to my expectations. Admittedly, I don't know what I was expecting. And this from a guy who loved the musical.
Looks like we called it, but you especially.
But to be honest, this hasn't been the best season. At least for me, which is why I never did any reviews. Sick of seeing the same thing per episode repeated again and again. Nothing has wowed me this season, nothing stands out.
Quote: Overall good season though. Over the past three seasons, we saw Barry face the Reverse Flash, Zoom and then finally himself. Now he's finally Top Dog Speedster. Wouldn't surprise me if next Season he emerges as Master of the speed force.
Who knows, maybe. We all know Barry will be back. Which made the ending of this season pretty stupid.
It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 11,689
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: CajunSpeedster] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 08:05:25 pm BST (Viewed 782 times) |
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Quote: Not a bad episode but others have voiced my concern(s).
Quote: However, I am disappointed at how easily Black Flash was defeated. I'm not sure why RF feared him so much if all he had to do was freeze him. If that's so why didn't RF have Snart do the same thing?
Quote: As for the SF trap . . . The SF has never stated which speedster had to be in the trap. Why not trick/force Thawne or Zoom into the trap? The SF was not happy with them anyway. Instead of sending the Black Flash to erase Thawne why didn't the SF capture Thawne and put him in the trap?
Quote: I agree with the other post saying that Season 4 is a good opportunity to decrease BA'a appearances and let Wally take the mantle for awhile. I'd like to see Wally as the Flash and also see more of Jesse Quick and Jay G (as the other post said).
Quote: Finally, Cisco and Gypsy? EEEEWWWWW! They are the same person just from different dimensions ie Gypsy is the Cisco of Earth 19. I like myself but would never date myself and certainly not . . . with myself.
I think that was just our fan theory. I don't think they directly came out and said Cisco and Gypsy's genetics are in any way similar.

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CajunSpeedster

Member Since: Wed Jan 27, 2016 Posts: 94
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: Reverend Meteor] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 08:43:51 pm BST (Viewed 823 times) |
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Then how do you explain her "connection" to Cisco? Like in this episode how did she know he was in danger and needed to be rescued?
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Superman's Pal
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: CajunSpeedster] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 10:15:57 pm BST (Viewed 830 times) |
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I didn't get the impression that she was Earth-19's version of Cisco Ramon necessarily. They are "of a kind" because they are the only people on their respective Earths with this particular power set.
Quote: Then how do you explain her "connection" to Cisco? Like in this episode how did she know he was in danger and needed to be rescued?
They have a love connection. Yes, it's silly. Kind of like Caitlin becoming evil because her cold powers froze her heart. That's why the stories these are based on are called "funnybooks."
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Panthera

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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: CajunSpeedster] Posted Wed May 24, 2017 at 11:43:05 pm BST (Viewed 8 times) |
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How wrong is it that we have consistency with the PROBLEMS of the episode?!?!? lol
Like others have said:
How the heck was BF so easily defeated....by cold? KF on Earth2 was barely able to contain Zoom. How was she now able to control/shatter BF?!?! Then KF should have killed not only Cisco but Barry all by herself. Heck, she could have defeated Savitar all on her own.
Why didn't Savitar kill everybody else, and then go to Plan B? He had a lot of time to kill.
Black Flash and a Flash prison are redundant aren't they? If the Time Wratihs are the sheriffs and the BF is the executioner, do you really need a prison? Or if you do need a prison, the number of prisoners shouldn't matter. Barry should be in prison for his crimes against time anyway, but not because he had tor place a speedster. Unless Barry somehow messed up the speed force by turning it into a prison in the first place (putting Savitar in there messed up the Speed Force dynamics and now it has to have a prison).
Why does Wally still have his speed? Servitor gave it to him, no Savitar no speed? Didn't we just go through this a few episodes ago?!!? Now, it doesn't matter?!!?
So every season we get a new version of Harrison Wells (somebody still needs to explain to me since we got rid of Thawne, why the we still have Barry Flash but no Earth1 Harrison Wells) and an evil speedster.
For this show to be on the CW, yeah I know it's 8pm, but Barry and Iris are the most unkissing couple. All this hugging, c'mob now.
Caitlin/KF- awww Mom!! The one with some brains. She wants a storyline besides moping after a man; I wouldn't want to be Caitlin again either. Good for her to explore her new dynamic.
Cisco hasn't had a proper date since Kendra. Hopefully he and Gypsy and 'discover the limits of his powers together'. lol
Iris. You've had 2 fiancees die/disappear on you; better stick with the hyphen of West-Allen; no smart man will be around you.
Is Jay going to be around for Season 4? I hope so. Now they can have Flash conferences since each earth has their own flash ( E1, E2, E3). Where are we getting our next Wells from?
What's left for Barry to mess-up now? He should be master of the speed force by the stop his mom let's him out. See the real life he was supposed to lead if Thawne hadn't killed his mother, marry and have kids with Iris in the 30th century, find his grandson Bart and bring him back to the 21st century, or cause the Crisis to come early and transform into Exra Miller?
I can't wait until this season comes to Netflix. It has been so uneven and non-sensical, but I have to watch it all again to try an understand what the heck I just watched and what the writers/producers were smoking/drinking.
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Iron Man Unit 007
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: Panthera] Posted Thu May 25, 2017 at 02:58:24 am BST (Viewed 746 times) |
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Okay I'll try to explain all the time-whimey of this season as Rip Hunter would likely state.
"when you make changes in time, after awhile they cement into place"
Wally has his speed, yes and by rights the time paradox should have taken it along with Savitar but that has not occurred. Per Rip Hunter, wally speed is cemented into place now. Also it is possible the Speed Force wants Wally to have it.
Why do we have Barry as Flash and Wells 1 is still dead? Time has cemented into place. RF takes Wells1's place years before hand and spend years building the particle accelerator and rigging it to blow. It has all cemented into place, it has happened and therefore shall have happened, even though by all rights the erasing of RF should have changed everything.
However that singularity from the end of Season 1 appeared to manifest due to RF being erased not from sabotage and Barry and Firestorm stopped it. Perhaps it was a time storm that would have changed things?
Also we aren't getting a new Wells next season, it is Wells 2.
As to Black Flash, he is a zombie imbued with the speed force and homes in on other speedsters. He would ignore KF and go for Savitar thus being open to attack from her. Also cold does stop speedsters, remember it was Cisco that built the cold gun that Snart would later acquire as a possible defense against Barry.
as to Cisco and Gypsy.....it has not been stated that they are in fact dimensional counter parts. They have the same powers, yes but that doesn't mean their DNA is a match for each other. Reminds me of the episode of Sliders when Quinn met the female version of himself. Arturo stated "merely the difference between and X and a Y chromosome, Mr. Mallory".
Are they counter parts to each other? Maybe. But until it is stated that they are, let them have some fun.
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Panthera

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Subject: BLAH! [Re: Iron Man Unit 007] Posted Thu May 25, 2017 at 03:31:24 am BST (Viewed 7 times) |
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to all the time traveling wonkiness you stated!
Quote: Also we aren't getting a new Wells next season, it is Wells 2.
I think this should be a recurring joke of the series: every season we get a new Harrison Wells. Yes Harry2 is staying for a bit, but that doesn't mean he won't leave midseason or after they pull Barry from the SP. Then he will say, 'see you guys around, call me if you need me again', and we have a Wells from another earth.
Quote: As to Black Flash, he is a zombie imbued with the speed force and homes in on other speedsters. He would ignore KF and go for Savitar thus being open to attack from her. Also cold does stop speedsters, remember it was Cisco that built the cold gun that Snart would later acquire as a possible defense against Barry.
I still don't think it should have been that easy to defeat BF. She shouldn't have been able to freeze him that completely, that fast. The Speed Force better bring him back!
Quote: as to Cisco and Gypsy.....it has not been stated that they are in fact dimensional counter parts. They have the same powers, yes but that doesn't mean their DNA is a match for each other. Reminds me of the episode of Sliders when Quinn met the female version of himself. Arturo stated "merely the difference between and X and a Y chromosome, Mr. Mallory".
I don't think they are doppelgängers of each other. Actually, I'd still root for the relationship even if they were.
I was going to type something rather 'off' about the two of them, but decided against it. lol
[
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Iron Man Unit 007
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 5,139
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Subject: Re: BLAH! Remember the show TIME TRAX? [Re: Panthera] Posted Thu May 25, 2017 at 04:01:32 am BST (Viewed 726 times) |
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I feel the same way about the time travel stuff as you do.
Dr Who with all of its continuity issues over 50 years still pays better attention to the rules of time travel.
So did Back to the Future 1, 2 and 3.
Remember the show TIME TRAX? A cop from the future comes to the 20th century to zap escaped criminals back home. They quickly established that it is a parallel timeline so that anything they do does NOT change their future. A quick cop out that avoids time paradoxes, but it worked. Although he was able to send messages to the future via newspaper ads and get messages beamed back to him despite it being a parallel time line...
Basically the FLASH writers are essentially ignoring the bulk of the time paradoxes by stating in Legends that time cements into place.
Thus going back to save his mother is a bad idea. You cannot change 15 years of history even if it is by altering one moment.
Now if they want back 24 hours and used the piece of Savitar armor to kill Savitar, that wouldn't be too bad as it is one day vs. 15 years.
In Dr Who terminology the death of Barry's mother is a fixed moment in history, it cannot be changed. Now the death of Wells 19 is another such fixed moment.
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MajinVegeta

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Subject: Re: DISAPPOINTED... [Re: AnthSand] Posted Thu May 25, 2017 at 09:15:07 pm BST (Viewed 6 times) |
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"Top Dog Speedster"?
I hope the writers don't see this and think: "What if we have a canine speedster?
O_o
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The Black Guardian
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Location: Paragon City, RI Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 26,724
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Subject: Re: THE FLASH May 23rd Season 3 finale: FINISH LINE [Re: CajunSpeedster] Posted Fri May 26, 2017 at 01:15:09 pm BST (Viewed 635 times) |
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Quote: Finally, Cisco and Gypsy? EEEEWWWWW! They are the same person just from different dimensions ie Gypsy is the Cisco of Earth 19. I like myself but would never date myself and certainly not . . . with myself.
Well, if my alt-self were like Cindy Reynolds/Jessica Camacho, I just might.
Besides, they're not really the same person. They don't act alike. They have no familial bonds. They share no DNA. Their only link is that she got the powers on her Earth that Vibe has. It would be like 616 Peter Parker hooking up with Spider-Gwen. So...
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