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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,334


https://www.cbr.com/superman-meet-green-lantern-krypton/

Tomar-Re was the GL of the sector Krypton was in before it exploded.


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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,817



nt





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,334


Yeah I'm surprised with all the reboots and reality warps that he's still dead.

Still his death scene was touching and it did serve the purpose of cementing Hal's return to the GLC.

Also nice touch that Tomar's ring goes to John and it states that he is wearing Hal's ring. \:\)


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Daveym 

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 39,155



Well, there's the peculiarity of it all - if Tomar-Re died during the Crisis, and according to modern canon the Crisis never happened, what did kill Tomar?
I have always liked the character a great deal, but then I also liked Katma-Tui a great deal, when Geoff Johns surprised with his revival of Tomar-Re back in 2012 as a ghostly figure trapped in the limbo between life and death it seemed as if this was heading somewhere... yet confusingly it went nowhere, and the subplot of Tomar-Re's fate was never returned to.

It's no bad thing as such, death should, sometimes at least, mean death in comics. But there seemed to be something left awkwardly unaddressed about Tomar-Re's reasons for being in that limbo dimension... \(fear\)




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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,334


Yeah his appearance is odd, and Katma wasn't there at the time as I recall.


Well Goldface killed Tomar-Re and as I look back I do shake my head at that. Goldface is approaching Tomar, he is clad in gold and thus immune to the ring yet Tomar and honor guard of the Corps and seasoned veteran user of the ring tries to blast him only for Goldface to get his hands on him and strangle him to death.....

....really, Tomar?

Also once upon a time, the blue ring gave John a vision of a possible future with him and Katma flying through the skies together. To my knowledge that hasn't been addressed and it was left vague as to whether it was indeed a vision of the future, or if John simply hopes to one day be reunited with Katma and the blue power capitalized on that to give him the vision.


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Daveym 

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 39,155




    Quote:
    Yeah his appearance is odd, and Katma wasn't there at the time as I recall.

The logic given was that Tomar-Re was there in Limbo/purgatory due to his perceived guilt over events surrounding Hal and/or Sinestro, the puzzling thing for longtime readers was that at this point there were so many continuity revisions in Green Lantern, and the broader DCU, that the Crisis was no longer canon and so it was difficult to connect with the reasoning on offer. Tomar's guilt, his purpose for appearing to hal in that Limbo, were only vaguely suggested to us, and one did get the impression that there was something being left unsaid by Tomar... it isn't the only detail in Geoff Johns' run here that was left unanswered mind, we were for example told that early in the run Hal's 'disintegration' by Sinestro's Power Battery had done something to him according to Sinestro. The point was never returned to however...


    Quote:

    Well Goldface killed Tomar-Re and as I look back I do shake my head at that. Goldface is approaching Tomar, he is clad in gold and thus immune to the ring yet Tomar and honor guard of the Corps and seasoned veteran user of the ring tries to blast him only for Goldface to get his hands on him and strangle him to death.....



    Quote:
    ....really, Tomar?

It didn't strike me as all that improboble given the context was set in a mass assault and Goldface has similarly waded through Hal's assaults. It wasn't the most noble end for Tomar I do agree, but after all Yellow was such a problem for the Power Ring originally that even mediocre villains-with-a-gimmick such as Javelin were legitimate threats for Green Lantern. How much more dangerous then a physical juggernaut like Goldface.


    Quote:
    Also once upon a time, the blue ring gave John a vision of a possible future with him and Katma flying through the skies together. To my knowledge that hasn't been addressed and it was left vague as to whether it was indeed a vision of the future, or if John simply hopes to one day be reunited with Katma and the blue power capitalized on that to give him the vision.

I recall that too. I think the point was returned to, with the Blackest Night returning Katma to John as an undead Zombie. He had to make his peace with her memory and this allowed him to move on, and eventually find another love with Fatality. But it would be interesting to know whether John does still hold on to some of that deep hope and faith that someday he might be with Katma again...

Realistically at this point, so many many years after she was murdered back in Action Comics Weekly, I expect there is little interest in the character. But nevertheless she was a fairly popular Corps member back in the day, and one of my own favourites at that.






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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,334


I think John still has some hope despite things with Fatality.

She did appear as a Black Lantern and when John was going to Mogo's core to blow him up when he was contaminated with black lantern energy, he did see a construct of Katma urging him on.

Her demise did help move John's character forward for a time, and of course so did John's error with planet Xanshi, however I don't think her death has the same resonance for him that it once did.

In fact when Kyle was White Lantern I'm surprised John didn't try to ask him to get Katma back.

However barring White Lantern power or Manhattan of the Watchmen or another universal restart I don't see her coming back.

The GLC could benefit from the return of a veteran GL.

As to Tomar-Re.....he didn't even try any alternate tactics on Goldface like hurling asteroids at him or something. He stood there and blasted a yellow enemy despite knowing the beam would do no good.

Hm, it IS possible that Tomar knew the Guardians would never formally reinstate Hal as GL UNLESS a Lantern perished and passed their ring on to him. Tomar COULD have secretly sacrificed himself and passed his ring to John so that Hal's would return to him and he would be GL again whether the Guardians wanted it or not. That is a bit of a stretch but it could work.


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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,817




    Quote:
    Realistically at this point, so many many years after she was murdered back in Action Comics Weekly, I expect there is little interest in the character. But nevertheless she was a fairly popular Corps member back in the day, and one of my own favourites at that.


I'm really surprised Geoff Johns never brought her back when he was writing Green Lantern. He brought back a lot of dead GL's, even Arisia. Speaking of Arisia, it's sad she's back but given nothing to do and zero dialogue. But I see her frequently in the comic, lingering in the background. And I keep wishing Venditi would DO something with her but he never does. \:\(





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 39,155



I am fond of Arisia too, it might be me in the minority in enjoying Steve Englehart & Joe Staton's Green Lantern Corps, and yes it was aimed at a younger audience in general, but that title was a fair bit of fun and at the time took the title into some different territory by consolidating what had been slowly built in the background over the years and attempting to serve it up in a rather appealing 'something-for-everyone' approach. Shame on the politics that brought it to an undue close to favor the damaging treatment of Action Comics Weekly. I have always thought that this decision was possibly the most damaging in Green Lantern history, as it took a character and series that was working, and threw it into the equivalent of a meat grinder.

Regarding death and Katma-Tui: Yes, it dissapoints me continually that despite having two Green Lantern books today the exposure and investment in the Green Lantern Corps and its sheer range and variety is comparatively at its lowest since the aftermath of Emerald Twilight. The Green Lantern Corps was shown as decimated after the 'Edge of Oblivion' series so one can argue that that is why the books revolve around four earth-Lanterns, plus two extra assigned to Earth, but the balance of it all is blunting the books scope and the appeal of this vast array of characters and concepts. I well remember just how appealing and well done those short GLC back-up strips were back in the original series, and you can see the same successful formula being used in the Green Lantern Quarterly series back in the early 1990's. But in a sense the erosion of the concept, and why we see less exploitation of the Corps' possibilities, lies in the fact that since the 2005 revival successive storylines has seen most of the cast killed, or written out, to serve sensational storylines and deliver some pathos and spectacle - Laira, Bzzd, Ash, Torquemada, Chaselon, Ke'haan, Jack C Chance, Soran Natu, Sodom Yat, Galius Zed, Mukmuk, these are just some of the best known names.
The Corps has, historically, always lost members, killed in action, but in the modern era the attrition rate is so high that supply can no longer service demand. In other words they can no longer create and develop new characters like the above as there is not the patience or will to do so.






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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 39,155




    Quote:
    I think John still has some hope despite things with Fatality.



    Quote:
    She did appear as a Black Lantern and when John was going to Mogo's core to blow him up when he was contaminated with black lantern energy, he did see a construct of Katma urging him on.



    Quote:
    Her demise did help move John's character forward for a time, and of course so did John's error with planet Xanshi, however I don't think her death has the same resonance for him that it once did.

He has moved on I agree, and to be fair few in the audience today would have awareness or a connection to Katma-Tui after all these years. On the other hand she is a significant character still as she was the direct successor to Sinestro in the Green Lantern Corps. If Tomar-Re can still be thought to have importance then so too could Katma as she is of the same vintage and importance as he in the historical Green Lantern mythos, on the other hand we now have Soran natu as a replacement Korugarian, and being honest I am as fond of her as I am of Katma. So like the successors of Tomar-Re it is probobly the better to move on and accept the present rather than sympathise with the dead past...


    Quote:
    As to Tomar-Re.....he didn't even try any alternate tactics on Goldface like hurling asteroids at him or something. He stood there and blasted a yellow enemy despite knowing the beam would do no good.



    Quote:
    Hm, it IS possible that Tomar knew the Guardians would never formally reinstate Hal as GL UNLESS a Lantern perished and passed their ring on to him. Tomar COULD have secretly sacrificed himself and passed his ring to John so that Hal's would return to him and he would be GL again whether the Guardians wanted it or not. That is a bit of a stretch but it could work.

Tomar was officially retired as a Green Lantern by the time of his death, elevated to serving in an honour guard status. I see some weight to your suggestion he could have deliberately sacrificed himself, though no successive writer has ever returned to the subject and I think I'm right in saying that apart from #198 no mention has ever been made of the fact that Goldface is the one who killed him. A strange thing, one would think the Corps and Hal Jordan would never let him forget the fact...





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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,334


Well in the next issue after Hal fulfilled his mission to investigate Star Sapphire's status ,which also was the Guardians way of testing him, he did join Arisia's team in hunting Goldface.

Hal as I recall used a few combat moves on him then aided the GL's in wearing him down and trapping him in antigravity or something.

But that was one of the few if only times it was mentioned.


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