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Author
FZ




The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Mozilla 0.9.4.2 on Windows XP
Lance Eason




As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.

One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.

The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.

However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.

Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.

A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
Now, there's an idea.
Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.

Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
They have the resources.

Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.

In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.

> The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Quinch




> As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
>
> One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
>
> The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
>
> However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
>
> Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
>
> A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> Now, there's an idea.
> Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
>
> Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> They have the resources.
>
> Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
>
> In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
>
> > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
skurgesaxe




> As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
>
> One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
>
> The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
>
> However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
>
> Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
>
> A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> Now, there's an idea.
> Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
>
> Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> They have the resources.
>
> Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
>
> In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.


Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Chris




> The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*

The Illuminati basically tried to stop a hurricane only to turn it into the Perfect Storm. You can't kill the Hulk, and when he's just savage you have at least a chance of calming him down, now there is no calming him down and he's a much bigger threat that populations don't just bend over, they run for their lives.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Daveym




> > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*
>
> The Illuminati basically tried to stop a hurricane only to turn it into the Perfect Storm. You can't kill the Hulk, and when he's just savage you have at least a chance of calming him down, now there is no calming him down and he's a much bigger threat that populations don't just bend over, they run for their lives.

Which proves his point, surely? *rhe*


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
HMB3







> As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
>
> One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
>
> The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
>
> However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
>
> Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
>
> A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> Now, there's an idea.
> Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
>
> Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> They have the resources.
>
> Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
>
> In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
>
> > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Gamma Ra




> Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."

True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.

This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.

Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.

Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
>
>
>
>
>
The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)

Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Lance Eason




This one, I think, manages to do both.
Lots of action, even over-the-top action, a lot of moral issues that are not exactly cut and dried.
Perfect? Of course not.
But engaging on many levels, and that's what counts.
Despite the many criticisms levelled at Civil War, I felt the same way about that series.
In fact, after several years of shrugging at new releases from Marvel, these two books have gotten me fired up again.
Odd that two crossover events got my interest back up, since I typically don't care for them.

> > As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> > The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> > So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
> >
> > One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
> >
> > The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> > In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> > Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> > In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> > If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> > So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
> >
> > However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> > Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> > And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> > Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
> >
> > Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> > Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> > Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> > Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
> >
> > A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> > Now, there's an idea.
> > Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> > Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> > AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> > Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> > Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
> >
> > Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> > Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> > Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> > Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> > They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> > They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> > We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> > In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> > They have the resources.
> >
> > Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
> >
> > In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> > There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> > Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
>
>
> Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
>
>
>


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Lance Eason




But hopefully, I got the idea across.
I'm not in the camp that thinks the Hulk is automatically right or 100% correct in his ideas and actions.
But I do understand this as a portarit of someone who's been pushed over the edge, and I think some of the so-called heroes need to share the blame.
I know babysitting isn't what super heroes do, but I think that if the solution to every problem involves hitting (or locking up or exiling), the responses you can expect are likely to be of the less subtle variety as well.


> > As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> > The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> > So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
> >
> > One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
> >
> > The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> > In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> > Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> > In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> > If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> > So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
> >
> > However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> > Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> > And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> > Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
> >
> > Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> > Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> > Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> > Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
> >
> > A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> > Now, there's an idea.
> > Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> > Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> > AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> > Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> > Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
> >
> > Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> > Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> > Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> > Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> > They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> > They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> > We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> > In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> > They have the resources.
> >
> > Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
> >
> > In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> > There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> > Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
> >
> > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Lance Eason




As intrigued as I am by the moral ramifications of this series and as engaging as some of the discussions are, I am a little bit tired of blanket statements like "WWH proves the Illuminati was right".
Not to say that no one has a right to that opinion, or that there isn't any basis for it.
I've just seen it too many times already, and I personally think it oversimplifies the issue.
So, yeah, if I found an argument that says what I want to say on the matter, I can let the matter rest.

That said, as an objective observer, I don't think the Hulk is 100% justified in his actions, either, although after all these years it's understandable.
But as a fan of a fictional character in a fictional universe, I'm enjoying the beatdowns, justified or not. In fact, I sort of wish they'd take it further. But enough about that ...for now.


> > As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> > The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> > So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
> >
> > One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
> >
> > The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> > In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> > Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> > In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> > If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> > So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
> >
> > However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> > Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> > And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> > Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
> >
> > Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> > Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> > Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> > Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
> >
> > A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> > Now, there's an idea.
> > Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> > Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> > AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> > Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> > Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
> >
> > Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> > Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> > Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> > Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> > They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> > They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> > We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> > In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> > They have the resources.
> >
> > Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
> >
> > In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> > There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> > Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
> >
> > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Lance Eason




> > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*
> >
> > The Illuminati basically tried to stop a hurricane only to turn it into the Perfect Storm. You can't kill the Hulk, and when he's just savage you have at least a chance of calming him down, now there is no calming him down and he's a much bigger threat that populations don't just bend over, they run for their lives.
>
> Which proves his point, surely? *rhe*

Not really. The Illuminati are supposed to be problem solvers, correct?
Their goal isn't to punish the Hulk, it's to protect the earth.
If they did what they thought was right to protect the earth, and the earth is in greater danger because of it, then they weren't right at all.

Namor even knew this beforehand. He warned them. And he couldn't even have foreseen what would happen on Sakaar or what would happen to the people there.

And I don't think it was Namor taking the Hulk's side over the rest of the Illuminati.
I think, as an outsider who has been in the "menace" category himself, he may have had sympathy or empathy, and he clearly had some moral issues with their decision.
But, historically, he has had less use for the Hulk than the others have; he only begrudgingly accepts his presence in the Defenders. And he told Amadeus Cho that the Hulk has no friends and is "a maniac, beyond reason or honor".
So, I don't think his differing opinion from the others was because he is on the Hulk's "side".

I think his primary point was, "this won't work, he'll come back, he'll be really mad, he'll kill you all".

He didn't mention the rest of the earth being endangered (and seemed surprised at the Hulk's later announcement), but if one was to take his warning to heart, picturing an extra mad Hulk returning to earth kind of leads to the realization that his threat to the populace will be enhanced.


> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Lance Eason




You make a great point about the friendships the Hulk had on earth and the ones he forged on Sakaar.
It would be doubly disappointing then, if it turns out Miek and Brood tampered with the warp core and killed innocents to manipulate the Hulk for their own ends.
Of course, that could be yet another lesson to be learned. The Hulk has learned that friends can betray, maybe he will see that Warbound allies can do the same.
If so, I pity just about everyone as the Hulk will be in a state of mind where his hate goes in a thousand directions and he trusts no one.
What then?

> > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
>
> True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
>
> This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
>
> Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
>
> Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
>
> Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
>
>


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Cmvmool




> > > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*
> > >
> > > The Illuminati basically tried to stop a hurricane only to turn it into the Perfect Storm. You can't kill the Hulk, and when he's just savage you have at least a chance of calming him down, now there is no calming him down and he's a much bigger threat that populations don't just bend over, they run for their lives.
> >
> > Which proves his point, surely? *rhe*
>
> Not really. The Illuminati are supposed to be problem solvers, correct?
> Their goal isn't to punish the Hulk, it's to protect the earth.
> If they did what they thought was right to protect the earth, and the earth is in greater danger because of it, then they weren't right at all.
>
> Namor even knew this beforehand. He warned them. And he couldn't even have foreseen what would happen on Sakaar or what would happen to the people there.
>
> And I don't think it was Namor taking the Hulk's side over the rest of the Illuminati.
> I think, as an outsider who has been in the "menace" category himself, he may have had sympathy or empathy, and he clearly had some moral issues with their decision.
> But, historically, he has had less use for the Hulk than the others have; he only begrudgingly accepts his presence in the Defenders. And he told Amadeus Cho that the Hulk has no friends and is "a maniac, beyond reason or honor".
> So, I don't think his differing opinion from the others was because he is on the Hulk's "side".
>
> I think his primary point was, "this won't work, he'll come back, he'll be really mad, he'll kill you all".
>
> He didn't mention the rest of the earth being endangered (and seemed surprised at the Hulk's later announcement), but if one was to take his warning to heart, picturing an extra mad Hulk returning to earth kind of leads to the realization that his threat to the populace will be enhanced.
>
>
> > "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)

Now when you state something like that it makes me think that the Hulk is going to visit Namor to get his view of the exile and ask why did he voted against the Illuminati ? :-/

I think that he would say just what you have stated. \:\-\)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Gamma Ra




> You make a great point about the friendships the Hulk had on earth and the ones he forged on Sakaar.
> It would be doubly disappointing then, if it turns out Miek and Brood tampered with the warp core and killed innocents to manipulate the Hulk for their own ends.

I don't know why everyone is suspicious of Miek, never stop making them pay. I wonder where Miek got that idea from. Brood seemed especially mournful about the deaths and destruction of Sakaar.

> Of course, that could be yet another lesson to be learned. The Hulk has learned that friends can betray, maybe he will see that Warbound allies can do the same.

It does seem sad at times that the Hulk seems disaster bound and can never have lasting happiness. Remember IH annual #8, one of my favorite tales.

> If so, I pity just about everyone as the Hulk will be in a state of mind where his hate goes in a thousand directions and he trusts no one.

Hate...hate leads to the dark side..oops..wrong board...Well that is a possible imperfect future route where the motto of the day is DTA...don't trust anybody.

> What then?

Maestro

Greg Pak did mention that we'd get a totaly different Hulk by the end of this story. What direction he will take the Hulk, I can't say for sure, but what I am sure of is Hulk will find a way to smash.


> > > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
> >
> > True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
> >
> > This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
> >
> > Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
> >
> > Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
> >
> > Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
> >
> >

*
*
*
*
*
The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)

Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Cmvmool




> > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
>
> True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
>
> This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
>
> Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
>
> Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
>
> Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
>
>:-D


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
ross




Just overthrowing the red king and having peace wasn't that great for miek. His hive was no more, no more queen, and he always hated the pinkies. He said a couple of times that maybe you have to destroy everything before you rebuild.

Plus, when it comes to the hulk, there's no such thing as a happy ending. Having hulk find out it was miek is kind of what we expect to happen to him.



> > You make a great point about the friendships the Hulk had on earth and the ones he forged on Sakaar.
> > It would be doubly disappointing then, if it turns out Miek and Brood tampered with the warp core and killed innocents to manipulate the Hulk for their own ends.
>
> I don't know why everyone is suspicious of Miek, never stop making them pay. I wonder where Miek got that idea from. Brood seemed especially mournful about the deaths and destruction of Sakaar.
>
> > Of course, that could be yet another lesson to be learned. The Hulk has learned that friends can betray, maybe he will see that Warbound allies can do the same.
>
> It does seem sad at times that the Hulk seems disaster bound and can never have lasting happiness. Remember IH annual #8, one of my favorite tales.
>
> > If so, I pity just about everyone as the Hulk will be in a state of mind where his hate goes in a thousand directions and he trusts no one.
>
> Hate...hate leads to the dark side..oops..wrong board...Well that is a possible imperfect future route where the motto of the day is DTA...don't trust anybody.
>
> > What then?
>
> Maestro
>
> Greg Pak did mention that we'd get a totaly different Hulk by the end of this story. What direction he will take the Hulk, I can't say for sure, but what I am sure of is Hulk will find a way to smash.
>
>
> > > > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
> > >
> > > True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
> > >
> > > This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
> > >
> > > Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
> > >
> > > Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
> > >
> > > Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
> > >
> > >
>
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
>
> Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
>
>


Posted with Blackberry 4.1.0
Gamma Ra




> > > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
> >
> > True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
> >
> > This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
> >
> > Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
> >
> > Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
> >
> > Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
> >
> >:-D

*
*
*
*
*
The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)

Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63




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MysteryMan




> The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*


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Charlie




The Hulk is not completely justified in his actions right now, but the Illuminati was never in the right with their decision.

The reason most countries have some sort of court system is to prevent one person or a select group of people from deciding policy for the rest of the world. The Illuminati decided they knew better than anyone else what was right and what was wrong. Their acts got a lot of people killed in Marvel's Civil War, and they're now facing the consequences of another one of their judgments in the Hulk's return. For a group of heroes who are supposed to have faith in the American ideal and in the human race in general, they've been remarkable arrogant and untrusting themselves. If someone like Dr. Doom had pulled this, he would have been called out as the villain long ago.

-Charlie
THE SCREAMSHEET: Writing, music, and comedy
FANTASY AS YOU LIKE IT: My award-winning short story, guest-starring the Hulk!
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Lance Eason




If confronted, I have no doubt he'd make it clear that he wasn't on the Hulk's side and wanted no part in his vengeance but that he thought exiling him was wrong and also a stupid move.

> > > > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*
> > > >
> > > > The Illuminati basically tried to stop a hurricane only to turn it into the Perfect Storm. You can't kill the Hulk, and when he's just savage you have at least a chance of calming him down, now there is no calming him down and he's a much bigger threat that populations don't just bend over, they run for their lives.
> > >
> > > Which proves his point, surely? *rhe*
> >
> > Not really. The Illuminati are supposed to be problem solvers, correct?
> > Their goal isn't to punish the Hulk, it's to protect the earth.
> > If they did what they thought was right to protect the earth, and the earth is in greater danger because of it, then they weren't right at all.
> >
> > Namor even knew this beforehand. He warned them. And he couldn't even have foreseen what would happen on Sakaar or what would happen to the people there.
> >
> > And I don't think it was Namor taking the Hulk's side over the rest of the Illuminati.
> > I think, as an outsider who has been in the "menace" category himself, he may have had sympathy or empathy, and he clearly had some moral issues with their decision.
> > But, historically, he has had less use for the Hulk than the others have; he only begrudgingly accepts his presence in the Defenders. And he told Amadeus Cho that the Hulk has no friends and is "a maniac, beyond reason or honor".
> > So, I don't think his differing opinion from the others was because he is on the Hulk's "side".
> >
> > I think his primary point was, "this won't work, he'll come back, he'll be really mad, he'll kill you all".
> >
> > He didn't mention the rest of the earth being endangered (and seemed surprised at the Hulk's later announcement), but if one was to take his warning to heart, picturing an extra mad Hulk returning to earth kind of leads to the realization that his threat to the populace will be enhanced.
> >
> >
> > > "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)
>
> Now when you state something like that it makes me think that the Hulk is going to visit Namor to get his view of the exile and ask why did he voted against the Illuminati ? :-/
>
> I think that he would say just what you have stated. \:\-\)


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Gamma Ra




> Just overthrowing the red king and having peace wasn't that great for miek. His hive was no more, no more queen, and he always hated the pinkies. He said a couple of times that maybe you have to destroy everything before you rebuild.
>

You have a point that Miek was acting a little Hulkish, but whether he knowingly caused the ships core to explode, I doubt it.

> Plus, when it comes to the hulk, there's no such thing as a happy ending.

Unfortunately this is the truth.

Having hulk find out it was miek is kind of what we expect to happen to him.

Not me and some others on this board as well.

>
>
>
> > > You make a great point about the friendships the Hulk had on earth and the ones he forged on Sakaar.
> > > It would be doubly disappointing then, if it turns out Miek and Brood tampered with the warp core and killed innocents to manipulate the Hulk for their own ends.
> >
> > I don't know why everyone is suspicious of Miek, never stop making them pay. I wonder where Miek got that idea from. Brood seemed especially mournful about the deaths and destruction of Sakaar.
> >
> > > Of course, that could be yet another lesson to be learned. The Hulk has learned that friends can betray, maybe he will see that Warbound allies can do the same.
> >
> > It does seem sad at times that the Hulk seems disaster bound and can never have lasting happiness. Remember IH annual #8, one of my favorite tales.
> >
> > > If so, I pity just about everyone as the Hulk will be in a state of mind where his hate goes in a thousand directions and he trusts no one.
> >
> > Hate...hate leads to the dark side..oops..wrong board...Well that is a possible imperfect future route where the motto of the day is DTA...don't trust anybody.
> >
> > > What then?
> >
> > Maestro
> >
> > Greg Pak did mention that we'd get a totaly different Hulk by the end of this story. What direction he will take the Hulk, I can't say for sure, but what I am sure of is Hulk will find a way to smash.
> >
> >
> > > > > Great post. I think WWH has been a great story-line in provoking controversy and in raising moral dilemmas. I know some fans of other characters/groups have been ignoring it as a Hulk fan boy fest but I think the story has incredible substance and I have really enjoyed (as a relatively non-Hulk fan)debating the finer points with the "Hulk crew."
> > > >
> > > > True indeed there is a lot more going on than Marvel giving Hulk fans a wet dream come true.
> > > >
> > > > This story and the Planet Hulk story have been so much more. Besides giving Hulk something that I felt he had been terribly lacking in, was a purpose. Hulk became a inspirational character for outcasts and those that didn't fit in. It was a slow growth as he was reluctant at first. The truth of the matter was that the Hulk had a fear of himself. He didn't trust that he could do right.
> > > >
> > > > Another underlying moral seams to be true friendships. The Illuminati claimed they were Hulks friends and many of them have helped him in the past in some of his worst times. But when things got tough they copped out on him. Not only did they lie to him and tricked him into saving the planet, they arrogantly tell him they're sick of being his "friend," and they know what's best for him. Well good for Hulk cause he's met some true friends ones that stood by him in the face of death. Friends that helped him develope a faith that he could do the right thing. Friends that have not feared him but told him when he was wrong to his face, yet still accepted him without passing judgement. I loved that about Planet Hulk. Friends that will not let him retrogress into an even more savage being but had the patience to help him grow into a respectable and wiser character. Friends who taught the Savage how to be civilized, a King.
> > > >
> > > > Yea right, Hulk Smash! see ya!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
> > > >
> > > > Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got....I assume he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk. Stan Lee(on Hulk vs Superman)
> >
> > Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it! Stan Lee TTA #63
> >
> >


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