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Author
Mike.




Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?


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Daveym




> Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
> But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?

That's one of the 'just don't think about it' flaws of the series' internal logic \:\)
It does strike me having now read WWH2 just how utterly inept and lacking earths heroes are. I just saw a preview for Mighty Avengers #4 which doesn't help, but when was the last time the Avengers actually won a fight? Two fights?!:-| What's Ares doing anywhere near the Avengers?!!
You compare MU heroes to DCs and the level of effectiveness on DCs part compared to Marvels ineptness is quite stunning. Marvels Avengers reminds me of the pre-Morrison JLA - a bunch of third rate no hopers dressed up as earths first line of defence ;->

I tell ya, We're all Doomed if this lot is the best they can muster...


"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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dave




> Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
> But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?

That's the problem I see. Hulk may be the "strongest one there is" but he's not stronger than all of them put together. It's like in those old Chuck Norris movies. Chuck will be taking on fifteen guys but they only attack him one at a time.


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redhulk




> > Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
> > But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?
>
> That's one of the 'just don't think about it' flaws of the series' internal logic \:\)


Of comics, entertainment and all shows that have a black and white concept of good guys and bad guys...although i'll get back to this later...


> It does strike me having now read WWH2 just how utterly inept and lacking earths heroes are.

Not really, most (not all, i think Thor and could) of the heros couldnt match the hulk on a good day, i really dont think the Thing was inept, nor hercules, nor bravery of elixiar, i dont even think tony was inept...if anyone DIDNT perform to his frankly too high a standard it has been richards, but that has been his potrayal since CW so its hard to blame this series on thoses setups....this is probably why skrull is being raised with ricahrds more than anyother even if that has been rejected by the creators.



I just saw a preview for Mighty Avengers #4 which doesn't help, but when was the last time the Avengers actually won a fight? Two fights?!:-| What's Ares doing anywhere near the Avengers?!!

Now if you really want to shout skrull...then how about ares...
what a total idiot...vile utterly lacking empathy...man no one can be like that in real life.
;)
Seriously ares has caused more screw ups and being bounced around the most since a promising mini series it would make sense if he wasnt all he seemed....And again the mighty avengers without ironman don't look that mighty, sentry well i think the writers are slowly revealing more about him and i think we should hold on a little longer before we call him out, i for one am looking foward to the revalations in this WWH, oh and Simon for a long time has been king jobber, carol has too many cracks, wasp, black widow are hardly mighty and Area....well ares is a one man band of catastrophy and scewups....really he is like a godlike mr bean.

And also the mighty avengers, well you cant be too hard on them, they were an artifical team created by tony out of cohersion, forced premisis and an amazing lack of team work, this in contrast to the new avengers is very evident...the real old calssic avengers worked due to their teamwork, since the death of cap and the pro registration that ....idealogy has been uprooted for a more military press gang idelogy which doesnt produce as good results in the comic world.



> You compare MU heroes to DCs and the level of effectiveness on DCs part compared to Marvels ineptness is quite stunning. Marvels Avengers reminds me of the pre-Morrison JLA - a bunch of third rate no hopers dressed up as earths first line of defence ;->


Yeah i noticed this effectiveness against black adam recently....or superman prime, its always hard to compare DC and Marvel as the power systems are far too hard, even this hulk would still struggle in the DC universe, he would be high up but he would STILL need another powerup to be considered anywhere near the scale of threat as black adam and superboy prime...yet if you scale down superboy prime and blackadam to hulk levels and the same to the dc universe then they too look inept on those showings....

I hear similar complaints....I thinks its pretty consistant that the Hulk has always been a teambeater...no real change there.

Also about the fact the teams wont win, isnt because they are inept, its part of the showing the threat the hulk is and the drama of how the teams will react to this...this is round one in a sense.

i think even the biggest hulk lover (and i tell you, a little secret, i am quite keen on the Hulk)
Even the keeniest of Hulk lovers would tell you that the Hulk is NOT going to win this one....so hang in there the hero's are not quite out of it yet and isnt that always the way with the faulted logic that comics always have.

Ironman will always lose for the first 5 out of 6 issue but win the last one...thats the way it goes...same for the FF
Who here thought that sauron would win? Vader? The bad guy?

So is that inept writing? or contrived plots? not really, its how most of us like our entertainment, we want to be thrilled but we also want our hero to win...which is why the stir this is creating as with so many teams going down to the Hulk, the majority of people will have to be rooting against him...this need for wanting 'our hero' to win is just how we do things, our hero we choise relates to us in way that is hard to convey, so writers use this, its life and its entertainment, we don't always quibble at that, titanic made enough money for a film EVERYONE knew the ending too.

So wait until the fat lady sings before we write off ironman and the gang...



>
> I tell ya, We're all Doomed if this lot is the best they can muster...


Well, its why i prefer marvel, as much as people think Hulk is uber, he probably would have a hard time even getting into the JLA....Marvel characters are often outgunned, out muscles and out classed and they lose...GOOD.

As it makes us value the fact the heros are not infalliable and not heros just because their powers are infallible they are heros as they get broken, they fail, they make mistakes and then they get up, they rectify them and then the win....Isnt that more relatable than just solving it by always being just perfect? To me it is...but some people prefer their heros. SUPERMEN


Lets watch more of WWH as methinks there is plenty of life left in the marvel universe....just you wait and see!!

:)
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


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Lance Eason




Most of Marvel's Big Guns..........in this class, I'm thinking guys like Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Sentry, the Surfer, Namor, etc. ........... have shown the ability to fight several of their peers at once and stay in the game.
Overall durability and resistance to getting k.o.'d or seriously injured allow them to fight four or five guys who would be pretty even matches for them one-on-one.

I imagine it's generally assumed, though, that the outnumbered character is going down eventually if the others piling on are his or her peers individually.

The Hulk seems to take piling on particularly well, however. Since he has ├╝ber healing as well as near-invulnerability and since continued fighting makes him madder/stronger, just staying in the fight means he has a chance of winning.

In other words, let's say 10 guys pile on that are 50% as tough as Hulk (just to make the math easy).
That means as a team, they are roughly 5 times as tough as him.
But his durability, healing and increasing strength keep him from getting taken out quick, even against such odds.
As the fight goes on, most of his foes will wear down somewhat as he is amping up.

By the end, he may be more powerful than his combined opponents.

> Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
> But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?


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Grubs




> It's like in those old Chuck Norris movies. Chuck will be taking on fifteen guys but they only attack him one at a time.

That's because fifteen guys can't get all in a single guy at once. It's called space limitation. As someone who has a certain highlevel degree of accomplishment in a certain particular form of martial art I can tell you that the last thing a slugger can afford to do is fight in close quarters with several others all trying to target the same person. There are strategic limitations. Anything beyond 3 persons and the advantages start to level off.

So technically it doesn't work the way you have described.


Posted with Mozilla 1.7 on Windows XP
Surt




> > Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.
> > But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?
>
> That's one of the 'just don't think about it' flaws of the series' internal logic \:\)
> It does strike me having now read WWH2 just how utterly inept and lacking earths heroes are. I just saw a preview for Mighty Avengers #4 which doesn't help, but when was the last time the Avengers actually won a fight? Two fights?!:-| What's Ares doing anywhere near the Avengers?!!
> You compare MU heroes to DCs and the level of effectiveness on DCs part compared to Marvels ineptness is quite stunning. Marvels Avengers reminds me of the pre-Morrison JLA - a bunch of third rate no hopers dressed up as earths first line of defence ;->
>
> I tell ya, We're all Doomed if this lot is the best they can muster...
>
>
> "LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Fifthchild




> > It's like in those old Chuck Norris movies. Chuck will be taking on fifteen guys but they only attack him one at a time.
>
> That's because fifteen guys can't get all in a single guy at once. It's called space limitation. As someone who has a certain highlevel degree of accomplishment in a certain particular form of martial art I can tell you that the last thing a slugger can afford to do is fight in close quarters with several others all trying to target the same person. There are strategic limitations. Anything beyond 3 persons and the advantages start to level off.
>
> So technically it doesn't work the way you have described.

true. Even if they all literally jumped him at once there is only so much they could contribute beyond a certain number except more bodyweight. And yeah 15 guys really going at it up close at the same time are gonna be hitting each other as much as the guy they are trying to beat up.
hh


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Fifthchild




> Somewhere it was said that Thor won't be in WWH.

I would bet on it.

> But even without him, wouldn't the Hulk be defeated if all the big guys just attacked at once? Sentry, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, etc?

If Sentry (as hype portrays him), Dr Strange, and a few other high ends like BB or Iron Man did yeah I would say Hulk prob goes down. Unless he knows they are all coming for him.
However the way it has been handled most of the biggest guys have had good reasons to be going at Hulk in a semi-staggered formation. BB was the first to encounter the threat. The Sentry is sitting this one out until he knows he is really needed cos the Hulk is his friend and he probably thinks what Tony et al did was wrong. Strange similarly has been portrayed as feeling guilty and seeking a better solution. IM wanted to go in solo out of a sense of responsibility and cos he felt he had a way to take the Hulk out of the game at the beginning.
As for the others - I have no problems seeing the Hulk beat down a team of mixed Avengers that pretty much consists of less powerful bricks. Guys like Ares, Luke Cage, Samson etc should just be fodder for this Hulk. You could argue that Richards could have come up with something better and maybe Susan could have tried somkething offensive with her forcefields (would always like to see one of those internal forcefields tried on a truly enraged Hulk) but apart from that I think what happened was all fairplay.
hh


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