I went and saw Thor Ragnarok this morning, the first film I have seen in the theater since Captain America: Civil War a year and a half ago. These days I mainly wait for films to come out on TV on demand a few months later, but I made an exception this time only because Jade Jaws was in it. I don't dislike Thor, but Banner/Hulk is always been far and away my fav Marvel character.

Comments:

1) The film didn't quite match the hype and the Thor-Hulk fight was way too short. Some fans had stated after seeing this they got the sense that the fight would have gone on for hours had the Grandmaster not interfered, The Hulk got up from two lightning shots (the first unexpected) and I would have liked to have seen some indication that the Hulk was starting to get angrier. I am admittedly biased, but no one is taking down the Hulk in a long Slugfest. Loki's reaction to Hulk smashing Thor they way he was Smashed in The Avengers was hilarious.

2) I guess sense Hulk did not turn back to Banner for more that two years indicates the Hulk can sleep without changing back.

3) Why did Thor wake up in Hulk's quarters? Did the Hulk have him taken there? otherwise I would think Thor would have been returned to the same area as the other contenders. Some line or scene was needed there.

4) The Hulk's fight with Fenris Wolf was also way too short. Not enough Hulk action. In
Age of Ultron, there was reportedly a terrific Hulk smash scene removed from the final cut because director Josh Whedon deemed it too good and wanted it saved for a later film. As a result in the final fight in Ultron there was way too much time passing during which the Hulk is fighting that we don't even see him, not even a quick two-second cut in between everything else that is going on. Did that happen again here? Enough!

5) Thor calls Hulk a Moron for attacking Surtur. When did anyone communicate this part of the plan to Banner or Hulk?

6) I get this sense that we will be seeing more Banner and Natasha in the upcoming Avenger films

7) In the trailers, you see Hulk, Thor, Valkyrie and Loki standing together - all four of them - on the bridge, but that never happened in the cut I saw. When Loki arrived on the bridge, Hulk was fighting Fenris Wolf in the water. Was that shot never intended for the film?

8) It was stated (but not seen) that the Hulk had killed

9) I would have liked s Hulk scene with Korg and Meik, his Warbound teammate from the comics. Otherwise, I don't see the point in them being there,

Overall, I am glad I went and saw it and that the Hulk is finally talking (about f****ing time) but there wasn't enough of him.

Yes, I know this was a Thor movie and not a Hulk movie but damnit, the Hulk was brought into this film to bring the Hulk fans in, Civil War was a Captain America film but Stark had a much bigger role than Hulk/Banner did here. I just wanted a little more of him, that's all.

Really? I thought it was pretty good and that the fight was the right length.

I disagree a bit with the back and forth here. Hulk looked more dazed and beat up in this fight than we have seen him in any other fight. Usually he ignored things but he was slow to get up.

He did take the lighting shots but looked shaken after it. After the second one Hulk was slower to get up and Thor was coming at him smiling. I am not sure it was clear that Hulk was going to win. If anything momentum swung heavily to Thor there.

I do not know that Thor would have won, but Grandmaster and the crowd both that it was very possible for their unbeatable champion to fall.

Thor looked pretty good too. He took a fair beating at times in the fight and popped back up. He even took a Hulk pummeling with minimal damage.

Thor took the rag dolling in stride though.




Yeah.




It is not clear, this is a bit of a hole in the plot. Hulk would make sense. As GM would be happier if he had died I think.




I did think that Hulk got lost in AoU. That said, Hulk was not the main character here. We saw him having a pretty big battle with the wolf. And it seemed like quite the battle. It stopped when the wolf fell off the edge. Floating into space.

Really, Hulk got beat up more in this movie than any other but he was dealing with things he never has fought before. God level threats and fights can hurt Hulk. Really, I would argue that Thor alone has shown the ability to at least rattle and hurt Hulk better than even Hulk Buster IM. Even if the later was more of a spectacle with buildings and the like. Hulk just smiled in there. Against Thor or this sort of threat he looked rattled and was slow to rise a few times.




No, but I doubt Hulk would have listened either. He was off fighting I think. Hulk also did not check in. He just sort of went out there.

Either way, Thor overreacted. Hulk was no match for Surtur.




Probably, but given how loaded the film will likely be it is too bad we do not get a stand alone movie to cover some of that.




I think it was just a publicity thing. Just like they fixed Thor's eye in the trailers but it is lost in the movie itself.

Just think they inserted Hulk and called it a day. It looked cool. I got a chuckle with Banner smashing into the bridge though. Him slamming the Fenris wolf around was pretty cool.




Yup, probably multiple times, but Korg mentions one specifically.




They were to help out with various plot points. They served a point. Just not with Hulk.

Hulk was honestly more of the role of Silver Surfer than he was of hulk if we go by PH.




I was a little surprised he was not in it more, but the director did say this was a Thor movie. And also that he prefers Thor films in particular. So, he was going to be downplayed a bit.




He did, but I feel that the plot of CW was based around Rogers vs Stark. That was not the case here. Really, they did not even need to have Hulk in the film, but it worked out to make it a team up sort of thing.

Hulk could have been in it more but they were trying to switch between Banner and Hulk and give it that dynamic. I thought the Hulk and Thor relationship could have been a bit better. It was brother rivalry sort of thing for a bit, but I thought it could have been more friendly. That said, Hulk recognized Thor in the arena and gave no craps about fighting him. Thor did not want to.

It was pretty good, I very much enjoyed the movie.

I agree and that pissed me off. I said other fans said they got the sense the fight could have lasted for hours. If I wasn't familiar with Thor-Hulk fight history, I would have thought the Hulk was about to lose.












Agreed. Typically when the Hulk fights another being in his relative power range or greater, he is going to struggle and take a beating until he gets madder or more "Hulked up" and we were not treated to any of that here






















Loki and Valkyerie weren't the main character either, but they didn't get lost in the final battle the way the Hulk did in this film and Ultron.




The beauty of the Hulk is he is a Super Powered Rocky. He takes a beating and keeps getting up. He gradually gets madder and madder and stronger and stronger while his opponent gets tired. Once, just once, I would like to see this portrayed on film. Even when he came from behind to beat the Abomination in the 2008 film they didn't do a very good job of it.

Yeah, they can't get the basics of the Hulk:

1. Strongest one there is
2. Gets stronger as he gets madder
3. His hard durability is above Thor's
4. He has an instantaneous healing factor

The fight does show the Hulk getting angrier. When Thor decides to finally really go after the Hulk he rushes in with the Hulk’s big hamer with a two handed swing, The Hulk caught it with one hand and it was pretty clear his strength was increasing. Thor displayed the same (oh crap) I’m sorry look moment that Iron Man had in the Hulbustet fight after the huge roundhouse where Hulk spit the tooth out smiled and growled angrily.

If the fight had lasted longer, there would have been more of those Hulk moments.

I think was Holding back by the fact he didn’t kill Thor after the grandmaster shock and he had Thor in his quarters. He didn’t want Thor to leave and I think it displayed a level of recognition and care.

If all that were true I wonder how they've been keeping his book going the decades, as he sounds pretty unbeatable and utterly boring. The FACT is, the director paid homage to Stan and Jack's creation of both characters. Just for once, you have to suck that up.
Vidar

All of that is true and Planet Hulk/]World War Hulk series were the opposite of boring.

Thanks for the response. What people don't realize is that Banner is the governor to the Hulk engine. When he aligned with the Hulk, he gradually released his control, until we got the Worldbreaker.

I just came from seeing it in IMAX 3d. The screen was the size of the side of a building. The fight between Thor and Hulk was pretty even, though Thor did get in more shots. I find it amazing how so many Thorites are dissecting scenes to try to prove something, instead of just enjoying it. Guys, the movie wad amazing, Thor was amazing. Best comic book movie ever.

Think that the Hulk was shown to be stronger than Thor by some margin, was beating him down, but also that once Thor taps into his version of the OdinForce with the Lightning...

Hulk would get toasted, as THAT Thor was to be more powerful now than Odin!

I think that they did iut as should be done, as Hulk in strongest between them, but Thor more powerful!

I think that they did iut as should be done, as Hulk in strongest between them, but Thor more powerful!

Which movie was this? It sure wasn't Thor Ragnarok.

What movie was this, because Hulk sure wasn't stronger in Thor Ragnarok.

Actually he was and I say this a Thor fan. Thor's superiority in the fight came from his combination of stregnth, speed, reflexes, agility, and combat skills. That along with his innate godforce.

The only time you got to see a contest of strength it wasn't even close. When Thor came at him with the Hulk's hammer with a running start, leap, and an two handed overhead swing. With one hand, Hulk caught the hammer and completely stopped Thor in his tracks. Thor's facial expression was shock and remeiniscant of the crap your pants momment Tony had in his fight with Hulk in AoU when he said, "I'm sorry"

When Hulk cut loose, Thor couldn't soak up his damage and Odin came to him in a vision to activate his godforce. The Hulk soaked up everything Thor had with his natural durability.

Thor was like Ali and was a ring general and was using the same awesome skills he showd in the opening sequence in Muspelheim. Hulk is the brute strength king and yes his blow staggered Surtur sideways and he was unhurt when Surtur cast him off and wanted to continue to fight the "Big Monster."

I got what I wanted for both characters and I am perfectly satisfied with Hulk being the strongest one there is because Thor was supperior.

Well, I say as a Thor fan, I didn’t see it that way at all. And Hulk catching that hammer blow is not an indication of being stronger. And before Thor summoned his innate godly power, he was taking by the Hulk’s pounding very well. No sign of being seriously hurt. But Thor did show superior fighting skill, speed and agility as well as comparable strength.

Hey, I am Thor fan too but he doesn't match the Hulk in strength and I think the movie shows it in the Arena, Hulk/Fenris, and the Hulk trying to tank Surtur but I think Thor more than outclasses him overall and it's only been the Hulk's dynamic strength that makes it the ultimate rivalry in Marvel.

I love both characters. The Hulk is a misunderstood monster, with a hero's heart but more of anti-hero.

Where Thor is the epitome of a hero, prince, top-tier power and one who others would follow into battle out of inspiration.

The healing factor part has not really come up. When has the guy been hurt outside of the wolf and being dinged by Thor. Usually he just ignores everything.

I would argue that he probably was stronger than Thor in the fight. It just was not a vast chasm as some may prefer.

Yes, he does match Hulk in strength. Stan Lee HIMSELF says this. I guess you'll argue with him as well....





If you say so.




Fixed it for ya.

Remember when he spit out the tooth in Age of Ultron during his fight with the Hulkbuster? I'm sure he grew a new tooth in seconds/minutes, but what happened to that tooth? Does some South African hpkeeo it as a souvenir? How big is that tooth? Heh

I would agree with those who have said that both the MCU Hulk and Thor are both underpowered vs. the comic versions. Same with all characters except for Captain America,

Sorry pal, Stan Lee said nothing about Thor's strength only that Hulk is mortal and Thor is a god. His only reference to strength in that comment was actually about the Hulk. He also had said, it depends on the author in any conflict because they are god and Stan hasn't written Marvel comics in decaces and the weight of all the creators through the long history have clearly indicated Hulk is the strongest one there is. World War Hulk and World War Hulks showcased this, as did Hulk smashes the Avengers mini recently but go back decades to Secret Wars.The Hulk supported two miles and 150,000,000,000 tons of rock to save everyone. Thor's mightest blows from the surface were only heard as faint taps from the depths where everyone else stood under the Hulk's labors.

I definitely accept Stan's premise that Thor is a god and immortal and that imbues him with a number of abilities beyond strength.

The Hulk has that unreal durability factor to go with his extreme strenght, so if the fight kept going on, would have been interesting!

Even Hercules might have been strongetr than Thor....

Hulk is the strongest, and Thor most powerful...

Thor is probably stronger than the Grey Hulk but that's it.

Are you kidding me? The question was about who is stronger (as well as who would win) and Stan makes no bones that Thor is stronger because he's a god....

https://moviepilot.com/p/hulk-vs-thor-fight-stan-lee/4146165

https://thetylt.com/entertainment/who-s-the-strongest-marvel-superhero-hulk-or-thor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841_jwfFYQk

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-395859-stan-lees-view-on-thor-versus-hulk.html

Go ahead, argue with Stan as well.....

This is a mythology and Stan was just one storyteller in a shared mythos and a company he hasn't run for 40+ years. Stan Lee was a co-creator with Jack Kirby and Jack was the creative guy. If you polled every writer and artist who have touched either you would likely get a positive Hulk score. It's been borne out in the actual issues where they have tussled. I don't have to argue with you, you can just check out some of my links and around we go. But hey, isn't that the great thing about all of this!

https://www.cbr.com/thor-vs-hulk-biggest-comic-book-fights/

https://www.cbr.com/thor-ragnarok-whos-stronger-thor-or-hulk/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cpfR8QaDvw

http://www.looper.com/57919/best-hulk-vs-thor-fights-who-won/

First you're proven wrong about what Stan said, so then you dismiss Stan Lee when his opinion doesn't match up with yours? That takes some gall. You can post links to random people on the internet for their opinions that you've selected, but I'll take Stan Lee's opinion over any of them because he CREATED both characters.

Actually if you have ever read any of the interviews with Jack and Roz Kirby, Jack created the Hulk fron an inspiration of a woman who saved her child by lifting a car off of her and the concept of Frankenstein. It was also Jack who named him the Hulk. There is plenty of reading on Jack getting the shaft on all of the creative property that Jack lost through a fee for service agreement with Marvel.

A nice summation of who created what at Marvel.

http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/ff_Lee-Kirby.html

As far as links, Thor 64 linked the one video of Stan introducing a Thor cartoon about a character he gets credited creating that was really Jack Kirby's invention more than Stan's. Some time it's better to be a businemssman and public relations guru than an artist. It certainly pays more.

In any event it doesn't matter, these characters or pop culture mythology the same way Greek are Norse gods are and it really depends on the storytelling through the ages that define them. Even one of the greatest fanatsy forces in history JRRT was revising his own works until he defined changing the number and power of Balrogs, family lineages, adding and removing individuals from his Middle Earth legendarium. And Stan Lee is no JRRT and about every writer and author that has followed has been more talented artistically. For the Hulk, he really has been defined as the Strongest One There Is over the years, not necessarily the most powerful. And while you may discredit some of the links I provided, one chronicled every issue they have ever fought in and I hate to tell you Hulk came out on top or stalemated almost every time. So blame Defalco or Machio or Brevoort and any of the editors or creators through the years but that is the way it is.

If you want to ignore the comics and use the cinematic universe, it wasn't "We have a Thor", that Tony informed Loki when he said he had the Chitauri army it was "We have a Hulk." And there are various other examples. Even in Raganarok when they were figuring out how to get off the planet, Loki suggest they unleash the Beast.

I guess you could just burn the 15 or so comic issues where they have fought so you can ignore the outcomes.

Yes, Stan and Jack co-created many of Marvel's iconic characters. That's not relevant to my point though. Stan Lee wrote hundreds of issues with the Hulk and Thor in them, the ones that established these characters for decades. You can dismiss Stan Lee for some anonymous person's online opinion, but Stan's opinions about his characters are worth far more in my eyes.




Again, they co-created Thor. You wrote that yourself in a previous post in this thread. However much you want to discredit Stan Lee, he wrote Thor from his inception in 1962 to roughly 1971, longer than Jack drew Thor. A character isn't created only in the first issue. Stan Lee spent 10 years defining Thor. That you want to put some CBR writer's opinion over Stan's on what Thor should or shouldn't be able to do is ludicrous.




So Rob Liefeld, Chuck Austen, Terry Kavanagh, Jeph Loeb, Scott Lobdell, Brian Michael Bendis, Todd Dezago, and dozens of journeymen writers, all are more talented than Stan Lee? I'm afraid you've blown any credibility you might have had. The Galactus Trilogy, the X-Men's early battles with the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Thor's early fights with the Absorbing Man, Ego the Living Planet, and Mangog, Captain America vs. the Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, the Silver Surfer's first encounter with the Stranger, and too many great Spider-Man stories to name are all classics that rival anything any other comics writer would be proud to have under their belts.




Interesting that you mention Brevoort here since he maintains a public forum to answer questions. He was asked, "I understand why the current editorial position is that Hulk and Thor are peers, which brings the inevitable 'who is stronger/better' question in the fanbase, and why there is no clear cut answer. BUT isn't it true that in the 70 and more years of their existance, Hulk has kept on becoming more strong/durable/powerful each new generation, peaking with the Worldbreaker recently? since he keeps on growing, isn't it logical that he has by now grown beyond Thor, could grow even beyond Odin possibly?" Tom simply answered, "Nope" and he's stated that he sees the Hulk and Thor as equally strong on his site.




Sigh. This is some weak sauce. The writers wrote Tony saying that because "We have a Hulk" has a ring that "We have a Thor" simply doesn't. "Hulk" existed as a word before "Hulk" existed as a name and the word referenced objects. So Tony referencing the Hulk as if the Hulk were just an object is what gives the line some flash.




What does this even mean?




First, I don't have to ignore anything. Contrary to your opinion and that one link's opinion, Thor and Hulk have stalemated or fought inconclusively almost every single time they've battled. The closest to clear and clean victories either have had is when Thor ko'd the Hulk with a lightning bolt in Hulk Annual 2001 and when Hulk ko'd Thor in "Let the Battle Begin," a poorly written one-shot whose continuity is questionable enough that Marvel left it out of the Thor vs. Hulk compilation that just came out. That compilation was clearly looking for material to fill it as it included several stories of Thor fighting Red Hulk and Marvel still excluded "Let the Battle Begin."

Second, I didn't post in this thread to argue who is stronger between Thor and Hulk even though that's apparently what you're trying to argue with me. My opinion is that the Hulk has dynamic strength so, yeah, if Hulk gets angry enough, he can surpass Thor's strength. The vast majority of the time though, they are roughly on par in strength.

Finally, I posted here because you invoked some random online opinions as if they should take precedent over Stan Lee's about the characters he made or helped create. I find doing that ridiculous.