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Nathan Summers


Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,386


In Dan Slott's She Hulk we discovered, from the Time Variance Authority, that an action by Jen would lead to The Reckoning War. Do we know if he's going to get around to this story he's been seeding for over a decade now?




Read more of my theorising here:) http://fanfix.wordpress.com
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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 863


So Slott wrote the Fake-Hulk? Now it makes sense why he had Benjy win. Thanks for the news.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


That was the current Hulk that Ben Knocked out, wasn't it?


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 863


I believe it was.


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Marv


Member Since: Sat Jan 24, 2015
Posts: 7,163


Yep, it was the current Immortal Hulk that Slott had Thing defeat, with the blessing of Ewing.

I was happy with it. I think we get very slightly into some more Thing/Hulk comparison in #24, though it’s not a “nun-uh!” rematch.

https://twitter.com/Al_Ewing/status/1162068407354822656?s=19

Referring to the comparison in IH24 where Hulk origin is tied to FF and Galactus origins, as they all are tied to blends of Radiation/Cosmic magic
https://weirdsciencemarvelcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/img_4967.jpg?w=371
https://abload.de/img/10cvdj8y.jpg
https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/HULK2018024Preview-4.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&h=683&dpr=1.5

He also liked writing Ben Grimm in Empire enough that a rematch wouldnt be a sure win for the Hulk

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/empyre-co-writers-al-ewing-and-dan-slott-provide-a-spoiler-free-look-at-the-characters-and-the-conflict

“I haven't written the Thing before now - I thought going in that he'd be quite straightforward, but once I started writing him, I could see how much depth was there, and how he'd react both when things were relatively easy and when he was fighting on his last ounce of strength, seconds from death. Which I guess is a spoiler of sorts! Sorry, Thing fans, but we're going to put the idol of millions through some tough times…”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/al-ewing-interview-empyre-guardians-of-the-galaxy/amp/

"Every time I write a new FF member, they become my favorite FF member. Case in point: The Thing. Just a couple of days ago I wrote a scene with Ben, and there's a reason he's one of the most beloved heroes Marvel has. I get a lot of "who's strongest" questions, being the writer of Hulk, and looking online I see a lot of people bragging -- or more likely complaining -- that their hero is, or isn't, displayed as strong enough. That they're getting jobbed, or winning in a single blow, or having "feats," or whatever. Ben isn't famous for winning fights; he's famous for not losing them. The Thing's strength is not that he can punch harder or lift more, or even take more punishment - it's that no matter what you do, he will never stay down. That, to me, means more than simple feats of strength."

He also said in an AIPT interview that he liked writing Thing so much, a rematch wouldnt necessarily favour Hulk

https://aiptcomics.com/2020/03/24/empyre-state-of-mynd-3-al-ewing-talks-co-writing-empyre-insight-on-hulkling-and-ancient-magic/

“What one character you haven’t written before Empyre has been the most fun to write now?”

"Probably the ever-lovin’ blue-eyed Thing. There’s a particular moment in the story where he really clicked for me, and I felt like I “got” him on a visceral level – he might be one of my favorite Marvel characters now. Which doesn’t bode well for ol’ Greenskin in their eventual rematch…"

Also Molina and Taylor had a kind of rematch in a one shot where the Hulk was driven out of Banner by Loki through magic and went into spiderman, Thing had to knock the immortal hulk-spider out.

As for the Time variance authority and the reckoning war i dont think it was ever referred again....




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


The thing should be at a higher base level than the Hulk now, and the Hulk can still rage up over him if need be!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


Liked how the fight showed that the thing could take down even the Hulk when the chips were down, but also that tghere was no doubt Hulk still strongest between them!


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Devil Hulk


Member Since: Thu Nov 15, 2018
Posts: 302



    Quote:
    The thing should be at a higher base level than the Hulk now, and the Hulk can still rage up over him if need be!







"The first ever Hulk comic was a horror comic. The sell wasn't the strength so much as the unstoppability — it's made very clear that nothing can hurt or hinder him."
"His strength was just part of his unstoppable nature – he was more like the bomb than a superhero, and one that might randomly go off against friend or foe alike."  Al Ewing
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Hokurikuhulk


Member Since: Sun Jul 08, 2018
Posts: 71


For me, the fight was done well. Ben did have a subtle assist unbeknownst to him (his vibranium wedding ring which absorbed all of the kinetic energy during the melee), but that did not bother me.

This was not the first time for the Puppet Master to control Hulk and use him as a tool of vengeance against the FF (mainly with Ben in mind). Ben is one of the few characters who should go toe-to-toe with Hulk because of his tenacity. Hulk, to me, seems to respect that on some level. He may appear to be an underdog, but Ben IS the heart of the FF. When written with his history in mind, he is a great character. I never liked when writers ignore or gloss over his experiences from Yancy Street, as a boxer, as a pilot, being a rather smooth talker when needed, and his journey of accepting himself as Thing.

" I could see how much depth was there, and how he'd react both when things were relatively easy and when he was fighting on his last ounce of strength, seconds from death.

Ben isn't famous for winning fights; he's famous for not losing them. The Thing's strength is not that he can punch harder or lift more, or even take more punishment - it's that no matter what you do, he will never stay down. That, to me, means more than simple feats of strength."

These descriptions are what make Ben who he is. 'Nuff said \:\)


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FrazettaHulk


Member Since: Tue Mar 13, 2012
Posts: 1,231




    Quote:
    The thing should be at a higher base level than the Hulk now, and the Hulk can still rage up over him if need be!



Grimm’s determination and no quit attitude vs the overwhelming strength of the Hulk. Maybe the Marvel Handbooks had the 70 tons calm stat you saw. And then Grimm’s was 85 tons. So you took that as gospel and developed a worldview on them that that is how it should be. But if you read their stories, it was never that. Only the Gray Hulk vs Pineapple Thing had a Thing that was vastly stronger than Hulk. And then you had that “fundamental aspect” play out in reverse. And Hulk still won!





“This world is a maze of money and power. In which human beings lose themselves. They live their lives in the Labyrinth... ...and I am The Minotaur.”—Immortal Hulk #26
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Devil Hulk


Member Since: Thu Nov 15, 2018
Posts: 302



    Quote:


      Quote:
      The thing should be at a higher base level than the Hulk now, and the Hulk can still rage up over him if need be!



    Quote:

    Grimm’s determination and no quit attitude vs the overwhelming strength of the Hulk. Maybe the Marvel Handbooks had the 70 tons calm stat you saw. And then Grimm’s was 85 tons. So you took that as gospel and developed a worldview on them that that is how it should be. But if you read their stories, it was never that. Only the Gray Hulk vs Pineapple Thing had a Thing that was vastly stronger than Hulk. And then you had that “fundamental aspect” play out in reverse. And Hulk still won!







"The first ever Hulk comic was a horror comic. The sell wasn't the strength so much as the unstoppability — it's made very clear that nothing can hurt or hinder him."
"His strength was just part of his unstoppable nature – he was more like the bomb than a superhero, and one that might randomly go off against friend or foe alike."  Al Ewing
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


I was basing this upon savage Hulk, my favorite version, who base lined at 70, and Thing should be around Class 100 now!


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Cth


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,403


Just FYI -- Savage Hulk, your favorite version was well over 100 tons.

OFFICIAL MARVEL
https://www.marvel.com/characters/hulk-bruce-banner/in-comics
7 (7 is greater than 6, so 100+ tons)
https://www.marvel.com/characters/the-thing-benjamin-grimm/in-comics
6 (Nearly 100 tons)

1982 Handbook
HULK
"Well Over 100 tons"
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/85/ba/ec85bad633ce97bcc7e69c4eb8ae2d84.jpg

1982 Handbook
THING
85 Tons

1991
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Strength_Scale
Calm Savage Hulk - 90 tons
Calm Merged Hulk - 100 tons
Angry Hulks (all) - 100+ tons
Abomination - 200 tons
Hulk 2099 - 150 tons
Calm Maestro - 200 tons
Red Hulk - 100+ tons
Red She Hulk - 100+ tons
Thing - 100+ tons

2004 Handbook
HULK
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/HC7RFaxgGFT_gPeCqoQcMHJz920MrQfGtnpsOre68BA2bNtho2Ae8ue9QIDg6ka7FrirgsD8DsSXvJOVLr2pnc9KcgtX4oty6L0UeYpL9BnacsAl46IzUKeYWXh2s_0z1EimSO4=s0
(Class 100)




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Devil Hulk


Member Since: Thu Nov 15, 2018
Posts: 302






"The first ever Hulk comic was a horror comic. The sell wasn't the strength so much as the unstoppability — it's made very clear that nothing can hurt or hinder him."
"His strength was just part of his unstoppable nature – he was more like the bomb than a superhero, and one that might randomly go off against friend or foe alike."  Al Ewing
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


Was there ever then a time when he was listed at 70 at his base>


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Cth


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,403


The only thing I can find is a Calm Gray Hulk being listed at 70 tons.

https://www.superherodb.com/Hulk/10-83/powers/

Maybe the original debut, but never ever the Savage Hulk.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,426


he was listed lower base then Merged/professor Hulk though, but he could ramp up much quicker!


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Cth


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,403


If you can't find anywhere where it lists Savage Hulk at 70 tons then this thread's run its course.

ALL Hulks (with the exception of Merged) can get angrier and stronger faster. Merged could get stronger but Banner had a failsafe that made the host body shift to Banner form instead of risking something like Worldbreaker on the world.

Again, nowhere says Savage was 70 tons.. you're more than welcome to link if you disagree.


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 863


Plain and simple, I don't care what Slott or Ewing thinks. This is just another bad story, by another bad writer.


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Hokurikuhulk


Member Since: Sun Jul 08, 2018
Posts: 71



    Quote:
    If you can't find anywhere where it lists Savage Hulk at 70 tons then this thread's run its course.



    Quote:
    ALL Hulks (with the exception of Merged) can get angrier and stronger faster. Merged could get stronger but Banner had a failsafe that made the host body shift to Banner form instead of risking something like Worldbreaker on the world.



    Quote:
    Again, nowhere says Savage was 70 tons.. you're more than welcome to link if you disagree.


Exactly. Joe has the lowest base strength of the Hulks (70), but like all Hulks, could increase his strength the madder he becomes.

@Jesus Fan
https://www.superherodb.com/Hulk/10-83/powers/

This is probably one of the more up-to-date sites. If you are referring to Savage starting at 70 tons, that was a LONG time ago. It was also the period when Hulk did not have the accelerated healing factor as he does now (I believe the information you are citing is in the Handbook of the Marvel Universe, which was published more than three decades ago.).



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