|
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. Posted Sat Nov 20, 2021 at 12:01:40 pm EST (Viewed 310 times) |
|
His run kept going left, it never went right... It left me feeling not right.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0
|
Quantum

Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008 Posts: 2,266
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 09:47:14 am EST (Viewed 205 times) |
|
How do you mean?
Posted with Google Chrome 95.0.4638.54 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Quantum] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 11:43:52 am EST (Viewed 209 times) |
|
Although Al Ewing's story reads well; as far as storytelling goes; there were many changes made to the character that I felt were forced. To name a few... The entire green door idea didn't play out smoothly, suggesting it was always there didn't sit well with me. Hulk being an avatar for the One Below All aka the One Above All's lower evil self, also was forced and came out of nowhere. Al Ewing destroyed the 'Angelic' mythos surrounding Rebecca Banner by turning her into that whining neighbor chick from the Sopranos. Gamma stemming from pretty much Hell, when it is a force that permeates the entire universe makes no sense to me. Devil Hulk (an incarnation of evil) leading the "noble" fray doesn't work for me. Cosmic Ray's trumping gamma waves isn't scientifically sound, when in fact gamma waves are the most powerful energy in the electromagnetic spectrum known to us. The ending to this story seemed rushed. But my biggest PEEVE is that all things termed Hulk, are now forever linked to cannibalism in the MU proper. These are just a few concerns.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 02:53:37 pm EST (Viewed 175 times) |
|
Quote: Although Al Ewing's story reads well; as far as storytelling goes; there were many changes made to the character that I felt were forced. To name a few... The entire green door idea didn't play out smoothly, suggesting it was always there didn't sit well with me. Hulk being an avatar for the One Below All aka the One Above All's lower evil self, also was forced and came out of nowhere. Al Ewing destroyed the 'Angelic' mythos surrounding Rebecca Banner by turning her into that whining neighbor chick from the Sopranos. Gamma stemming from pretty much Hell, when it is a force that permeates the entire universe makes no sense to me. Devil Hulk (an incarnation of evil) leading the "noble" fray doesn't work for me. Cosmic Ray's trumping gamma waves isn't scientifically sound, when in fact gamma waves are the most powerful energy in the electromagnetic spectrum known to us. The ending to this story seemed rushed. But my biggest PEEVE is that all things termed Hulk, are now forever linked to cannibalism in the MU proper. These are just a few concerns.
Comic energy/rays in the MU have almost always been depicted as the lifeblood of the universe and even intrinsically tied with the astral plane.
Cosmic is used more in the sense of "universal" rather than "high-energy protons and atomic nuclei that move through space at nearly the speed of light" discovered and coined "cosmic rays" by Victor Hess in 1912.
Cosmic powers in Marvel have almost always granted mastery over all natural forms of energy (including gamma) along with the fundamental forces. I would assume that's the angle Ewing took which would be consistent with Marvel's usage of "cosmic" ever since the Silver Age.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:10:13 pm EST (Viewed 154 times) |
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Although Al Ewing's story reads well; as far as storytelling goes; there were many changes made to the character that I felt were forced. To name a few... The entire green door idea didn't play out smoothly, suggesting it was always there didn't sit well with me. Hulk being an avatar for the One Below All aka the One Above All's lower evil self, also was forced and came out of nowhere. Al Ewing destroyed the 'Angelic' mythos surrounding Rebecca Banner by turning her into that whining neighbor chick from the Sopranos. Gamma stemming from pretty much Hell, when it is a force that permeates the entire universe makes no sense to me. Devil Hulk (an incarnation of evil) leading the "noble" fray doesn't work for me. Cosmic Ray's trumping gamma waves isn't scientifically sound, when in fact gamma waves are the most powerful energy in the electromagnetic spectrum known to us. The ending to this story seemed rushed. But my biggest PEEVE is that all things termed Hulk, are now forever linked to cannibalism in the MU proper. These are just a few concerns.
Quote: Comic energy/rays in the MU have almost always been depicted as the lifeblood of the universe and even intrinsically tied with the astral plane.
Cosmic is used more in the sense of "universal" rather than "high-energy protons and atomic nuclei that move through space at nearly the speed of light" discovered and coined "cosmic rays" by Victor Hess in 1912.
Cosmic powers in Marvel have almost always granted mastery over all natural forms of energy (including gamma) along with the fundamental forces. I would assume that's the angle Ewing took which would be consistent with Marvel's usage of "cosmic" since the Silver Age.
Although much of what you state in the comics is true, the fact of the matter is that in reality Gamma Waves are the highest and most powerful form of energy known to man. All other cosmic i.e. magnetic spectrum energies are less in output. Maybe this is why in comics Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's Hulk has UNLIMITED strength potential while that is not said of any cosmic powered beings. Subsequently She-Hulk, Hotshot and Sasquatch have been said, in comic, to have the unlimited gammafied power potential. My point... what's being written in comics about cosmic trumping gamma, is not scientifically sound.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:32:01 pm EST (Viewed 133 times) |
|
Quote: lthough much of what you state in the comics is true, the fact of the matter is that in reality Gamma Waves are the highest and most powerful form of energy known to man. All other cosmic i.e. magnetic spectrum energies are less in output. Maybe this is why in comics Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's Hulk had unlimited strength potential while that is not said of any cosmic powered beings. Subsequently She-Hulk, Hotshot and Sasquatch have been said in comic to have the unlimited gammafied power potential.
I don't think how human science arbitrarily coins certain types of interstellar radiation as "cosmic rays" should necessarily dictate what the larger universe refers to as cosmic energy or rays. Again, even the astral plane and hyperspace fall under the cosmic realm in the Marvel Universe.
Hess named those rays "cosmic" because the preexisting word cosmic meant universal, basically highlighting they were not of earthly origin. Scientists initially thought atmospheric electricity was caused by earth-sourced radatioactivity as opposed to interstellar sources. That's why Hess names his rays "cosmic", to highlight their unearthly origin.
In the MU there are examples of higher dimensional, metaphysical beings -- some of them older than time -- running around who almost universally utilize cosmic energy (in the larger, metaphysical sense -- not Hess' cosmic rays). They can all utilize gamma energy under their larger umbrella of energy manipulation, they can all fortify their strength to "infinite" or "trans-infinite" levels under certain circumstances (See Eternity, Living Tribunal, Galactus, Celestials, etc).
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Reply to post below. This one went on the fritz. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:47:49 pm EST (Viewed 107 times) |
|
Quote: Quote: lthough much of what you state in the comics is true, the fact of the matter is that in reality Gamma Waves are the highest and most powerful form of energy known to man. All other cosmic i.e. magnetic spectrum energies are less in output. Maybe this is why in comics Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's Hulk had unlimited strength potential while that is not said of any cosmic powered beings. Subsequently She-Hulk, Hotshot and Sasquatch have been said in comic to have the unlimited gammafied power potential.
I don't think how human science arbitrarily coins certain types of interstellar radiation as "cosmic rays" should necessarily dictate what the larger universe refers to as cosmic energy or rays. Again, even the astral plane and hyperspace fall under the cosmic realm in the Marvel Universe.
Hess named those rays "cosmic" because the preexisting word cosmic meant universal, basically highlighting they were not of earthly origin. Scientists initially thought atmospheric electricity was caused by earth-sourced radatioactivity as opposed to interstellar sources. That's why Hess names his rays "cosmic", to highlight their unearthly origin.
In the MU there are examples of higher dimensional, metaphysical beings older than time running around who almost universally utilize cosmic energy (not Hess' cosmic rays mind you). They can all utilize gamma energy under their larger umbrella of energy manipulation, they can all boost their strength to "infinite" levels (See Eternity, Living Tribunal, Galactus, Celestials, etc.).
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:49:08 pm EST (Viewed 113 times) |
|
Cosmic rays are particles, while gamma is a wave that functions different from a physical thing. We know that waves uninhabited will continuously pick up momentum to no end.
As far as the Higher beings in the MU, I'm sure most of them, though termed cosmic, use other forms of energy as well including mystical. Although beings like FF, Captain Marvel and the U-Foes are powered by cosmic, and Silver Surfer channels it, they differ from those Higher entity forms like Eternity, Stranger and the Watchers.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:00:08 pm EST (Viewed 128 times) |
|
That is correct in terms of accepted human science. My point is that why would beings like Eternity, Galactus and the Celestials accept human terminology?
If we look at it from a larger sense of cosmic, meaning: 1a: of or relating to the cosmos, the extraterrestrial vastness, or the universe in contrast to the earth alonecosmic radiation b: of, relating to, or concerned with abstract spiritual or metaphysicalcosmic wisdom 2: characterized by greatness especially in extent, intensity, or comprehensivenessa cosmic thinkera book of cosmic significance Which is inline with how Marvel has historically used the term "cosmic power, "Power Cosmic", "cosmic energy" or even "cosmic ray" and I think it qualifies Ewing's choice as consistent with Marvel tradition. That's my point.
----------------------------------------------------- As far as the Higher beings in the MU, I'm sure most of them, though termed cosmic, use other forms of energy as well including mystical.
Beings like FF, Captain Marvel and the U-Foes use cosmic while Silver Surfer channels it, they differ from those Higher entity forms. -----------------------------------------------------
Mystical energy is usually depicted as distinct from cosmic energy in Marvel, though they can overlap.
I also view Surfer as sort of a miniaturized cosmic being given that he was granted a tiny fraction of Galactus' own "cosmic" essence which grants him the ability to utilize any type of energy (except maybe magical) and control over the fundamental forces.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:24:33 pm EST (Viewed 127 times) |
|
Now you're just reaching my friend. These energies have been talked about by those cosmic beings at some point, and in the early days of Marvel, Hulk was considered a universal threat by some of these higher beings.
Here's a definition for you...
Gamma rays have the smallest wavelengths and the most energy of any wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. They are produced by the hottest and most energetic objects in the universe, such as neutron stars and pulsars, supernova explosions, and regions around black holes.
All these energies, cosmic and gamma, exist outside of earth's atmosphere.
And again, as far as energies are concerned, Marvelly written, only gamma and Ghost Riders have been said to be unlimited or boundless. Give me an instant of a cosmic being being said to have no limit.
I never said mystical energies are cosmic in comics, I said I'm sure the Higher entities utilize it as well.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:50:53 pm EST (Viewed 99 times) |
|
Quote:
Now you're just reaching my friend. These energies have been talked about by those cosmic beings at some point, and in the early days of Marvel, Hulk was considered a universal threat by some of these higher beings.
I'm not reaching at all as that is exactly how Marvel has historically used the term "cosmic".
If cosmic simply referred to highly energized interstellar protons moving at near light speed it wouldn't give Marvel's cosmic energy the ability to manipulate souls, time, gravity, gamma energy, etc.
Marvel CLEARLY uses "cosmic" in its classical sense, not in the sense of Hess' cosmic rays.
------------------------------------ Here's a definition for you...
Gamma rays have the smallest wavelengths and the most energy of any wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. They are produced by the hottest and most energetic objects in the universe, such as neutron stars and pulsars, supernova explosions, and regions around black holes.
All these energies, cosmic and gamma, exist outside of earth's atmosphere. ------------------------------------
As I've shown I am well aware of what our definition of a cosmic ray is. I am also aware of what a gamma ray is.
However, why would Victor Hess' arbitrary word selection matter to a metaphysical being older than time?
Hess called his rays "cosmic" because simply because they were not of earth. That's it.
If you doubt this look up the history of scientific debate in the early 1900s revolving around the source of atmospheric electricity. Many thought it was caused by radiation emitted from the earth but Hess proved the radiation came from outside of the atmosphere hence the decision to call them "cosmic" -- meaning of the universe.
Hess could have very easily called his discovery extraterrestrial rays and it would have had zero impact on the classical definition of cosmic.
FYI, gamma rays were discovered in 1903 by studying radiation emitted by radium. A terrestrial source. The discovery of extraterrestrial gamma rays came later.
----------------------------------------- And again, as far as energies are concerned, Marvelly written, only gamma and Ghost Riders have been said to be unlimited or boundless. Give me an instant of a cosmic being being said to have no limit. -----------------------------------------
Seriously? Many, many times.
An easy example off of the top of my head is that Celestials have been described by Kubik as "trans-infinite" i.e. operating on a higher level of infinity than their own level of infinite power. Kubik then went on to name the Celestials as only one set of the "great powers of the universe" which also included Eternity, Galactus, Living Tribunal and the usual assortment of cosmic beings who also presumably operate on a similar "higher infinity".
I would definitely categorize trans-infinite as unlimited. Perhaps even more unlimited than unlimited. 
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 05:15:18 pm EST (Viewed 106 times) |
|
I don't know if the board is acting up, but I can't seem to respond to your thread using the quote function.
Marvel's use of the term cosmic is pretty much the same as science's. The difference is that in this fictional world, it can give a character super powers. But generally speaking, they are thought of in terms as the same energies in the real world.
It was you that bought Victor Hess into the conversation. But fact of the matter is that the reason Marvel Comics has a term called "cosmic rays" is because of him.
FYI This is what science today knows of Gamma Rays...
https://youtu.be/rYVUhSloDfc
This is a better Clip. Gamma rays are a form of cosmic energy. .. https://youtu.be/IpuVnqYIgbo
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 05:29:57 pm EST (Viewed 100 times) |
|
Yes the board is acting up that's why I resorted to color coding quotes.
Quote:
I don't know if the board is acting up, but I can't seem to respond to your thread using the quote function.
Marvel's use of the term cosmic is pretty much the same as science's. The difference is that in this fictional world, it can give a character super powers. But generally speaking, they are thought of in terms as the same energies in the real world.
It was you that bought Victor Hess into the conversation. But fact of the matter is that the reason Marvel Comics has a term called "cosmic rays" is because of him.
FYI This is what science today knows of Gamma Rays...
https://youtu.be/rYVUhSloDfc
I disagree that Marvel's use of cosmic is the same as science's, at least consistently. I think that's demonstrably false in the majority of cases.
For example the "Power Cosmic" clearly ISN'T referring to science's cosmic rays. It's referring to grandiose, vast, otherworldly, universal power.
Point being that if Hess named his rays Extraterrestrial Rays instead of Cosmic Rays we still would not have Galactus talking about his Power Extraterrestrial or Celestials utilizing trans-infinite amounts of Extraterrestrial energy. I think it's kind of glaringly obvious they are using cosmic in the classical sense in these instances.
On the other hand the cosmic rays that struck the Fantastic Four were probably intended to be real world cosmic rays, at least originally.
My point is that I don't think Ewing is necessarily out of line with his depiction of the relationship between cosmic and gamma energy IF he interprets cosmic in the classical sense, and I think he would have a very strong leg to stand on with a boat-load of continuity to reference if he argued it that way. I can absolutely see where he was coming from in spite of being familiar with the science of both cosmic and gamma rays.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 05:57:05 pm EST (Viewed 104 times) |
|
Quote: Yes the board is acting up that's why I resorted to color coding quotes.
Quote:
I don't know if the board is acting up, but I can't seem to respond to your thread using the quote function.
Marvel's use of the term cosmic is pretty much the same as science's. The difference is that in this fictional world, it can give a character super powers. But generally speaking, they are thought of in terms as the same energies in the real world.
It was you that bought Victor Hess into the conversation. But fact of the matter is that the reason Marvel Comics has a term called "cosmic rays" is because of him.
FYI This is what science today knows of Gamma Rays...
https://youtu.be/rYVUhSloDfc
I disagree that Marvel's use of cosmic is the same as science's, at least consistently. I think that's demonstrably false in the majority of cases.
For example the "Power Cosmic" clearly ISN'T referring to science's cosmic rays. It's referring to grandiose, vast, otherworldly, universal power.
Point being that if Hess named his rays Extraterrestrial Rays instead of Cosmic Rays we still would not have Galactus talking about his Power Extraterrestrial or Celestials using Extraterrestrial energy. I think it's kind of glaringly obvious they are using cosmic in the classical sense in these instances.
On the other hand the cosmic rays that struck the Fantastic Four were probably intended to be real world cosmic rays, at least originally.
My point is that I don't think Ewing is necessarily out of line with his depiction of the relationship between cosmic and gamma energy IF he interprets cosmic in the classical sense, and I think he would have a very strong leg to stand on with a boat-load of continuity to reference if he argued it that way. I can absolutely see where he was coming from in spite of being familiar with the science of both cosmic and gamma rays.
I was the one to first state that the terminology is the same in comics and the real world, it's just that the comics fictionalize the effects. Although MC fictionalize the effects of these energies, the name term "cosmic" is based on the dictionary definition. Marvel tends to use real world scientific terms, whereas DC was the company that came up with its own fictional energy sources.
The point I was making wasn't geared towards Ewing only, but Marvel in general. Cosmic on a real world scientific level does not trump Gamma in terms of energy output, as the two clips I posted above show. It's just weird Science writers come up with. Gamma is just a more powerful force than anything known.
I'll look into Kubik in terms of his power being unlimited. Here's Stan Lee and John Romita Jr speaking on how Hulk's power works. This is Marvel comics Gamma power, not cosmic.
https://youtu.be/HGI1_rAoYPM
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 12:34:18 pm EST (Viewed 102 times) |
|
Quote: I was the one to first state that the terminology is the same in comics and the real world, it's just that the comics fictionalize the effects.Although MC fictionalize the effects of these energies, the name term "cosmic" is based on the dictionary definition. Marvel tends to use real world scientific terms, whereas DC was the company that came up with its own fictional energy sources.
The point I was making wasn't geared towards Ewing only, but Marvel in general. Cosmic on a real world scientific level does not trump Gamma in terms of energy output, as the two clips I posted above show. It's just weird Science writers come up with. Gamma is just a more powerful force than anything known.
I'll look into Kubik in terms of his power being unlimited. Here's Stan Lee and John Romita Jr speaking on how Hulk's power works. This is Marvel comics Gamma power, not cosmic.
https://youtu.be/HGI1_rAoYPM
See the thing is the word cosmic is hundreds of years old with etymological roots tracing back millennia to ancient Greek.
Hess called his discovery “cosmic rays” because of the dictionary definition of cosmic which already existed.
Cosmic rays didn’t define the word cosmic, cosmic rays were called cosmic rays because they were of the cosmos as opposed to of the earth.
What I’m saying is that “cosmic” in Marvel is largely used in the classical sense and not always (or even usually) referring specifically to cosmic rays.
You keep sticking on this comparison between cosmic and gamma rays but I’m arguing that “cosmic” has a larger and older meaning than cosmic rays specifically.
Marvel writers know this and use the term accordingly.
Power Cosmic - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Cosmic entity/being - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Fantastic Four’s original cosmic rays - is referring to actual cosmic rays
Just for reference:
cosmic adjective
cos·mic | \ ˈkäz-mik
Definition of cosmic
1. a: of or relating to the cosmos, the extraterrestrial vastness, or the universe in contrast to the earth alone
Example:
cosmic radiation
b: of, relating to, or concerned with abstract spiritual or metaphysical ideas
Example:
cosmic wisdom
2. characterized by greatness especially in extent, intensity, or comprehensiveness
Example:
a cosmic thinker
a book of cosmic significance
the power cosmic
Posted with Apple iPhone 15.1
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 01:18:37 pm EST (Viewed 84 times) |
|
Quote:
Quote: I was the one to first state that the terminology is the same in comics and the real world, it's just that the comics fictionalize the effects.Although MC fictionalize the effects of these energies, the name term "cosmic" is based on the dictionary definition. Marvel tends to use real world scientific terms, whereas DC was the company that came up with its own fictional energy sources.
The point I was making wasn't geared towards Ewing only, but Marvel in general. Cosmic on a real world scientific level does not trump Gamma in terms of energy output, as the two clips I posted above show. It's just weird Science writers come up with. Gamma is just a more powerful force than anything known.
Quote: I'll look into Kubik in terms of his power being unlimited. Here's Stan Lee and John Romita Jr speaking on how Hulk's power works. This is Marvel comics Gamma power, not cosmic.
https://youtu.be/HGI1_rAoYPM
Again, you are the one that bought up the fact that in 1912 Victor Hess coined the term "Cosmic rays". I'm simply saying cosmic by definition means the universe. In said universe i.e. cosmos there are many Ray's, gamma Ray's are the highest form of them
Quote: What I’m saying is that “cosmic” in Marvel is largely used in the classical sense and not always (or even usually) referring specifically to cosmic rays.
Yes they are. In most of the comics, cosmic and gamma Ray's pose the same threat to everyone as they do in the real world. The results are only fictionalized to a minor few characters giving them super powers.
Quote: You keep sticking on this comparison between cosmic and gamma rays but I’m arguing that “cosmic” has a larger and older meaning than cosmic rays specifically.
Marvel writers know this and use the term accordingly.
True, the term cosmic is older than gamma in terms of Ray's, but the point I'm making is that gamma is more powerful force. That's regardless to when it was discovered.
Quote: Power Cosmic - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Cosmic entity/being - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Fantastic Four’s original cosmic rays - is referring to actual cosmic rays
Quote: Just for reference:
Quote: cosmic adjective
cos·mic | \ ˈkäz-mik
Quote: Definition of cosmic
1. a: of or relating to the cosmos, the extraterrestrial vastness, or the universe in contrast to the earth alone
Example:
cosmic radiation
b: of, relating to, or concerned with abstract spiritual or metaphysical ideas
Example:
cosmic wisdom
Quote: 2. characterized by greatness especially in extent, intensity, or comprehensiveness
Quote: Example:
a cosmic thinker
a book of cosmic significance
the power cosmic
Gamma by science today is listed by as being the most powerful form of cosmic rays. The fact just is gamma is the superior force.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 02:11:26 pm EST (Viewed 89 times) |
|
Quote: I was the one to first state that the terminology is the same in comics and the real world, it's just that the comics fictionalize the effects.Although MC fictionalize the effects of these energies, the name term "cosmic" is based on the dictionary definition. Marvel tends to use real world scientific terms, whereas DC was the company that came up with its own fictional energy sources.
The point I was making wasn't geared towards Ewing only, but Marvel in general. Cosmic on a real world scientific level does not trump Gamma in terms of energy output, as the two clips I posted above show. It's just weird Science writers come up with. Gamma is just a more powerful force than anything known.
I'll look into Kubik in terms of his power being unlimited. Here's Stan Lee and John Romita Jr speaking on how Hulk's power works. This is Marvel comics Gamma power, not cosmic.
https://youtu.be/HGI1_rAoYPM
See the thing is the word cosmic is hundreds of years old with etymological roots tracing back millennia to ancient Greek.
Hess called his discovery “cosmic rays” because of the dictionary definition of cosmic which already existed.
Cosmic rays didn’t define the word cosmic, cosmic rays were called cosmic rays because they were of the cosmos as opposed to of the earth.
What I’m saying is that “cosmic” in Marvel is largely used in the classical sense and not always (or even usually) referring specifically to cosmic rays.
You keep sticking on this comparison between cosmic and gamma rays but I’m arguing that “cosmic” has a larger and older meaning than cosmic rays specifically.
Marvel writers know this and use the term accordingly.
Power Cosmic - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Cosmic entity/being - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Fantastic Four’s original cosmic rays - is referring to actual cosmic rays
No, cosmic in the classical sense means vast, universal in scope…cosmic in the classical sense is greater than gamma radiation alone because gamma is only one aspect of a greater cosmic landscape.
If we’re referring specifically to cosmic rays vs gamma rays then yes gamma rays have more energy.
Cosmic does not equal cosmic rays in Marvel terminology, it can but it is an incorrect assumption to assume is always does.
Posted with Apple iPhone 15.1
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 02:46:35 pm EST (Viewed 93 times) |
|
Quote:
Quote: I was the one to first state that the terminology is the same in comics and the real world, it's just that the comics fictionalize the effects.Although MC fictionalize the effects of these energies, the name term "cosmic" is based on the dictionary definition. Marvel tends to use real world scientific terms, whereas DC was the company that came up with its own fictional energy sources.
The point I was making wasn't geared towards Ewing only, but Marvel in general. Cosmic on a real world scientific level does not trump Gamma in terms of energy output, as the two clips I posted above show. It's just weird Science writers come up with. Gamma is just a more powerful force than anything known.
Quote: I'll look into Kubik in terms of his power being unlimited. Here's Stan Lee and John Romita Jr speaking on how Hulk's power works. This is Marvel comics Gamma power, not cosmic.
https://youtu.be/HGI1_rAoYPM
Quote: See the thing is the word cosmic is hundreds of years old with etymological roots tracing back millennia to ancient Greek.
Hess called his discovery “cosmic rays” because of the dictionary definition of cosmic which already existed.
Cosmic rays didn’t define the word cosmic, cosmic rays were called cosmic rays because they were of the cosmos as opposed to of the earth.
I don't have a disagreement with this point.
Quote: What I’m saying is that “cosmic” in Marvel is largely used in the classical sense and not always (or even usually) referring specifically to cosmic rays.
If you're agreeing with the fact that by "classical" you mean the term "cosmic" means universe, then I must state this is the point I was making. Marvel is using real world terminology to describe its fictional universe.
But I disagree with you in that there use of "cosmic rays" is also in accord with the real world's term. It just has super human results at times.
Quote: You keep sticking on this comparison between cosmic and gamma rays but I’m arguing that “cosmic” has a larger and older meaning than cosmic rays specifically.
Marvel writers know this and use the term accordingly.
You're totally missing my initial point then. My entire argument is based on the fact that gamma waves, in the real world, are more powerful than any other cosmic ray or energy.
Quote: Power Cosmic - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Cosmic entity/being - cosmic is being used in the classical sense
Fantastic Four’s original cosmic rays - is referring to actual cosmic rays
Quote: No, cosmic in the classical sense means vast, universal in scope…cosmic in the classical sense is greater than gamma radiation alone because gamma is only one aspect of a greater cosmic landscape.
Quote: If we’re referring specifically to cosmic rays vs gamma rays then yes gamma rays have more energy.
Quote: Cosmic does not equal cosmic rays in Marvel terminology, it can but it is an incorrect assumption to assume is always does.
I didn't say that. I stated that cosmos means the universe, and cosmic rays are part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0
|
Marv

Member Since: Sat Jan 24, 2015 Posts: 7,665
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Fri Nov 26, 2021 at 07:07:29 am EST (Viewed 112 times) |
|
By that vague of a definition though, gamma as well would be a subset of "cosmic" energies, as indeed Ewing showed both originate from the same source in the end.
And it tracks that entities of an abstract nature partake of the power balance between the forces they embody, so the Power Cosmic we have so far seen is not limited to traditional "cosmic rays". Indeed we have often seen Surfer or major gods manipulate both gamma and cosmic before. Magic is kind of a third pole, as it behaves in its own way when interacting with both, while Gamma and Cosmic are mostly "scientific" but the higher you go in the abstract territory the more blurred the lines become between the scientific and the magical.
I guess this is just a semantic game to keep the illusion that gamma is more powerful than cosmic, while from what Ewing showed us it's just a balanced coin. Gamma is more destructive in nature, Cosmic is just as potentially powerful in opposing destruction/creating though.
Of course both can be used to punch/explode something very very hard if the story needed them to.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Linux
|
Nate
 Moderator
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Fri Nov 26, 2021 at 08:54:58 pm EST (Viewed 153 times) |
|
I want to go back and reread it from the beginning. But my feeling is that Ewings run doesn’t really do much for the character aside from the horror aspects of it being pretty cool to see. I don’t get the sense that either banner or Hulk really had much of a character arc throughout or that there was a solid story being told throughout the entire run.
Posted with Apple iPad 605.1.15
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Nate] Posted Sat Nov 27, 2021 at 09:19:07 am EST (Viewed 152 times) |
|
Quote: I want to go back and reread it from the beginning. But my feeling is that Ewings run doesn’t really do much for the character aside from the horror aspects of it being pretty cool to see. I don’t get the sense that either banner or Hulk really had much of a character arc throughout or that there was a solid story being told throughout the entire run.
Ewing's run is indeed solid; as far as story goes; there's definitely a beginning, middle and end. Some of his ideas didn't quite get meat on their bones, like Hulk taking over the base and his plans against humanity. This is why I thought Ewing would be on the book at least a few more years to tell his tale. The story started to get monotone and he seemed to lose focus. But all in all it was complete. He seemed to be the one that took Hulk back to three distinct personalities.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Marv] Posted Sat Nov 27, 2021 at 09:32:23 am EST (Viewed 128 times) |
|
Quote: By that vague of a definition though, gamma as well would be a subset of "cosmic" energies, as indeed Ewing showed both originate from the same source in the end.
And it tracks that entities of an abstract nature partake of the power balance between the forces they embody, so the Power Cosmic we have so far seen is not limited to traditional "cosmic rays". Indeed we have often seen Surfer or major gods manipulate both gamma and cosmic before. Magic is kind of a third pole, as it behaves in its own way when interacting with both, while Gamma and Cosmic are mostly "scientific" but the higher you go in the abstract territory the more blurred the lines become between the scientific and the magical.
I guess this is just a semantic game to keep the illusion that gamma is more powerful than cosmic, while from what Ewing showed us it's just a balanced coin. Gamma is more destructive in nature, Cosmic is just as potentially powerful in opposing destruction/creating though.
Of course both can be used to punch/explode something very very hard if the story needed them to.
I was purposely being brief as I addressed it in an above post that some scientists say that gamma is the highest form of cosmic energy.
It's not semantics, this is science. Different energies differ because they have different frequencies that cause different effects.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0
|
paolo2143

Member Since: Thu Oct 26, 2017
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Sun Nov 28, 2021 at 09:55:44 am EST (Viewed 129 times) |
|
However, you have hit the nail in the head , we are not talking about reality but comics which as we all know relate very little to reality as we know it.
Right from the Silver age the cosmic powers have always been shown to be way beyond any other form of energy or power. Just look at how easy Silver Surfer took care of the Hulk in their first meeting.
Indeed as Stan himself pointed out on more than one occasion he invented Thor to be more powerful than the Hulk and indeed initially was more powerful even than Silver Surfer, just look at very first clash in Silver Surfer 4.
What Stan & Jack intended is massively important as it was their characters and they knew what they wanted. Sadly modern Marvel writers/editors have no respect for tradition or history of characters.
For the record, the Savage Hulk of the 60's early 70's is still my favourite version and will always be the true Hulk to me.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: paolo2143] Posted Sun Nov 28, 2021 at 02:44:05 pm EST (Viewed 111 times) |
|
Quote: However, you have hit the nail in the head , we are not talking about reality but comics which as we all know relate very little to reality as we know it.
Right from the Silver age the cosmic powers have always been shown to be way beyond any other form of energy or power. Just look at how easy Silver Surfer took care of the Hulk in their first meeting.
Indeed as Stan himself pointed out on more than one occasion he invented Thor to be more powerful than the Hulk and indeed initially was more powerful even than Silver Surfer, just look at very first clash in Silver Surfer 4.
Quote: What Stan & Jack intended is massively important as it was their characters and they knew what they wanted. Sadly modern Marvel writers/editors have no respect for tradition or history of characters.
For the record, the Savage Hulk of the 60's early 70's is still my favourite version and will always be the true Hulk to me.
As I've mentioned a few times in my posts to Immodicus, that the science in Marvel Comics is based on real world terminology. Even though effects to characters are dramatically fictionalized at times. But Gamma is such a superior force, that Stan Lee himself said it gives Hulk an unlimited strength potential. He did not say this about cosmic beings. Silver Surfer had to once absorb Hulk's gamma radiation in order to escape Galactus' barrier he used to imprison Surfer on earth. He didn't look for another cosmic being, he looked for Hulk because he possesses the Superior power. Case closed!
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Mon Nov 29, 2021 at 02:38:15 pm EST (Viewed 121 times) |
|
Quote: As I've mentioned a few times in my posts to Immodicus, that the science in Marvel Comics is based on real world terminology. Even though effects to characters are dramatically fictionalized at times.
The Power Cosmic really has nothing to do with cosmic rays. The "cosmic" part of Power Cosmic is using the classical definition of cosmic:
cosmic
: characterized by greatness especially in extent, intensity, or comprehensivenessa cosmic thinkera book of cosmic significance ***The Power Cosmic***
Again this IS "real world" terminology and it predates the discovery of cosmic rays by centuries/millennia.
Quote: But Gamma is such a superior force, that Stan Lee himself said it gives Hulk an unlimited strength potential. He did not say this about cosmic beings. Silver Surfer had to once absorb Hulk's gamma radiation in order to escape Galactus' barrier he used to imprison Surfer on earth. He didn't look for another cosmic being, he looked for Hulk because he possesses the Superior power. Case closed!
Stan Lee named Galactus the most powerful living being in the Marvel Universe -- a universe in which he knew full well the Hulk lived in. Odin, Galactus, Celestials, etc. have all been called omnipotent and omniscient by Stan Lee as the narrator. The language surrounding Hulk isn't especially unique in flowery Silver Age verbiage.
The Surfer stealing Hulk's power in Hulk #250 in no way implies Hulk was more powerful than the Surfer or that the Hulk was somehow the most powerful option out there.
You asked why didn't the Surfer seek out a cosmic being? What cosmic beings are earth residents like Hulk? What cosmic beings could Surfer subdue and absorb their power for his own?
For instance Surfer would have a MUCH more difficult time overpowering and stealing the Stranger's power even IF Stranger happened to randomly show up on earth for the story.
The truth is that Surfer was trying to break through a barrier that was established by Galactus specifically to trap the Surfer -- and only the Surfer -- on earth.
All Surfer really needed to do was exceed his "design" parameters as Galactus established them to beat the barrier.
So Hulk #250 showed Surfer with Hulk's gamma powers stacked with his Power Cosmic could do something that Surfer on his own could not. Not exactly a shocking revelation.
In my opinion the more interesting aspect to Hulk #250 as it relates to THIS discussion is that it showed that the Surfer's Power Cosmic gives him mastery over gamma radiation (not just cosmic rays) driving home the point that "cosmic" is not referring to just cosmic rays in Marvel.
The Surfer himself even sort of draws a distinction in Hulk #250:
Surfer, "The barrier still stands, mocking me with the sight of the unattainable stars beyond! Yet all else passes through unhindered! Meteorites! The flotsam and jetsom of space! Even mankind routinely traverses the barrier!"
Narrator -- With eyes possessed of supra-normal sight, the Surfer sees...
Surfer, "Light rays! Energy rays of every magnitude! All these traverse the barrier! Ultraviolet rays! X-rays! Cosmic rays! Gamma rays!"
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Sat Dec 04, 2021 at 08:39:12 am EST (Viewed 100 times) |
|
I'm not sure why the quote function does not work when I reply to your thread.
Galactus is not omnipotent. He needs to eat to sustain himself, otherwise he'll die.
Your fanboy revisionist idea of how Surfer could have broken the barrier is more out of this world than he is.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|
Immodicus

Member Since: Wed Jun 24, 2020
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Gamma Ra] Posted Wed Dec 08, 2021 at 03:11:18 pm EST (Viewed 86 times) |
|
Quote:
I'm not sure why the quote function does not work when I reply to your thread.
Quote: Galactus is not omnipotent. He needs to eat to sustain himself, otherwise he'll die.
Quote: Your fanboy revisionist idea of how Surfer could have broken the barrier is more out of this world than he is.
-- Feel free to quote me saying Galactus is omnipotent.
I have not typed those words in this discussion and you really should try to read more carefully.
Regarding the power of Galactus, he IS the metamorphosed embodiment of the 6th cosmos and only has his hunger affliction because he exists in an imperfect state due to having his incubation interrupted per Ewing's Ultimates run.
-- What fanboy revisionist idea of how Surfer could have broken out of the barrier?
I presented no alternative ideas I simply said the Hulk posed a much more realistic option for quick power boost for Surfer as opposed to someone like Stranger then laid out the logic behind that rationale.
I was NOT suggesting Surfer could subdue and drain the Stranger (like he did Hulk), in fact I was suggesting exactly the opposite.
It's really apparent you're skimming then reacting to my posts more than reading and comprehending them.
-- You seem to be under the revisionist fanboy delusion that *only* gamma power would allow the Surfer to break through the barrier when that is a totally illogical conclusion and not supported by the story.
Exceeding the mechanics of the barrier was spelled out in the story if you've ever actually read it which I begin to doubt.
Hulk's gamma power was **A** way for Surfer to boost his power by enough to pierce the barrier and was never suggested to be the *ONLY* way.
-- Speaking of revisionist fanboy ideas your assertion that "cosmic" always equates to "cosmic rays" in Marvel is exactly that.
I think I do get why you argue this position and its all borne out of Hulk bias - a way to rationalize Hulk being "greater" or having more potential than all cosmic characters.
It must have really stung when Ewing made cosmic energy trump gamma energy, eh?
I think I get why you *really* hated Ewing's run.
I still can't wait for you to experience Cates.
I'll be sure to check back in with you in 12-14 months to rub salt in that wound.
Posted with Google Chrome 96.0.4664.45 on Windows 10
|
Gamma Ra

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008 Posts: 7,881
|
Subject: Re: Al Ewing's run ultimately made me realize how much I miss Greg Pak. [Re: Immodicus] Posted Thu Dec 09, 2021 at 06:21:38 pm EST (Viewed 84 times) |
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not sure why the quote function does not work when I reply to your thread.
Quote:
Quote: Galactus is not omnipotent. He needs to eat to sustain himself, otherwise he'll die.
Quote:
Quote: Your fanboy revisionist idea of how Surfer could have broken the barrier is more out of this world than he is.
Quote: -- Feel free to quote me saying Galactus is omnipotent.
I have not typed those words in this discussion and you really should try to read more carefully.
Here's your exact words..."Odin, Galactus, Celestials, etc. have all been called omnipotent and omniscient by Stan Lee as the narrator."
https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=hulk-2021112919381517&layout=thread
Check my Battle Boards stats before you come at me with nonsense.
Quote: Regarding the power of Galactus, he IS the metamorphosed embodiment of the 6th cosmos and only has his hunger affliction because he exists in an imperfect state due to having his incubation interrupted per Ewing's Ultimates run.
Quote: -- What fanboy revisionist idea of how Surfer could have broken out of the barrier?
Quote: I presented no alternative ideas I simply said the Hulk posed a much more realistic option for quick power boost for Surfer as opposed to someone like Stranger then laid out the logic behind that rationale.
I was NOT suggesting Surfer could subdue and drain the Stranger (like he did Hulk), in fact I was suggesting exactly the opposite.
It's really apparent you're skimming then reacting to my posts more than reading and comprehending them.
-- You seem to be under the revisionist fanboy delusion that *only* gamma power would allow the Surfer to break through the barrier when that is a totally illogical conclusion and not supported by the story.
Quote: Exceeding the mechanics of the barrier was spelled out in the story if you've ever actually read it which I begin to doubt.
Hulk's gamma power was **A** way for Surfer to boost his power by enough to pierce the barrier and was never suggested to be the *ONLY* way.
-- Speaking of revisionist fanboy ideas your assertion that "cosmic" always equates to "cosmic rays" in Marvel is exactly that.
I think I do get why you argue this position and its all borne out of Hulk bias - a way to rationalize Hulk being "greater" or having more potential than all cosmic characters.
Quote: It must have really stung when Ewing made cosmic energy trump gamma energy, eh?
I think I get why you *really* hated Ewing's run.
I still can't wait for you to experience Cates.
I'll be sure to check back in with you in 12-14 months to rub salt in that wound.
Sure thing. I'll await your arrival. Next time, try to remember what you said.
He's... A Misunderstood MONSTER! An INCREDIBLE force! He's ASTONISHING! That's why you don't comprehend him! And because of his...RAMPAGING, the Hater will not tolerate him SAVAGE, INDESTRUCTIBLE, nor his being IMMORTAL!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Burst ...The WORLD BREAKER!!! "Only the Hulk could have attempted it! Only the Hulk would have been capable of it! Only the Hulk could have done it!"- Tales To Astonish #063
" There is no way to measure his strength! There is nothing he cannot do!"- Tales To Astonish #073
" That something -- anything -- could grab hold of an energy field should be IMPOSSIBLE! But the Hulk grabs hold just the same!"- The Incredible Hulk #242
Gamma Ra the Assassin aka Lord Smash'emall - Faithful Member of The Church of Hulk
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 94.0 on Windows 10
|