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Author
zvelf




So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?

1. Who is Proty?

2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?

3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?

4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?

5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?

6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?

7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?

8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?

9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?

10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”

11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?

12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?

13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.

14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?

15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?

16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?

17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?

Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
little kon-el




> So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?
>
> 1. Who is Proty?
>

Lightning Lad, a former Legionnaire, died in battle. 6 Legionnaires were going to sacrifice themselves to to bring back their friend. A shapeshifting friend named Proty took the shape of one of the Legionnaires and sacrificed himself for the Legion.

> 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
>

Hal Jordan was in Central City during Crisis, where he saw one of the after-images of Barry Allen as he was sacrificing himself during Crisis.


> 3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?
>

Batman was in Gotham City when Barry's after-images interacted with Batman.

> 4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?

See above.

> 5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?
>

She was lying. She was stalling Jay so that he wouldn't check the others.

> 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
>

They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.

> 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?

It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.

The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.

> 8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?
>

Lightning Lad was the Legionnaire that died originally that the Legion initially used the rods to bring back to life.

> 9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?
>

The containment suit that is used to keep Drake together is made from Red Tornado's parts and I'm sure Wildfire had done research on Red Tornado so he knows RT's future.

> 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
>

The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).

> 11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?
>

Barry Allen.

> 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
>

We don't know. That's a mystery. I'm thinking that it might be another Legionnaire, but that's speculation.

> 13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.
>

B5 was retrieving Barry Allen.

> 14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?
>

Barry Allen.

> 15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?
>

He could have still dodged it. Remember, right before he gets hit, it is mentioned that KK can see any weakness in any attack. He could have dodged lightning. Which is probably why he evokes Lightning Lad's name...because LL evaded death.

> 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
>

Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."

> 17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?
>

I don't know. It could be the pre-Crisis version, but KK was dead by the time Crisis occurred and Starboy hadn't taken the Starman name at that point. It might be that these are Legionnaires from different points in the future.

> Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
>

I'd say try to reread the whole story. It fits together pretty well together rather than apart. I think my problem was Turner's artwork, which doesn't lend itself to the subtlety of Brad Metzler's script.

But I think it showed us a novel way of this type of story. Most of the time, we have these teamups where the point is to fight others...but this is one of the few incidents where suicide is what these heroes are fighting against. I think that was a pretty novel idea.

- little kon-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
zvelf




Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...

> > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
>
> They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.

I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?

> > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
>
> It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
>
> The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.

How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*

> > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
>
> The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).

Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.

> > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
>
> Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."

Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?

> > Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
>
> I'd say try to reread the whole story. It fits together pretty well together rather than apart. I think my problem was Turner's artwork, which doesn't lend itself to the subtlety of Brad Metzler's script.

It was Benes (who's much better than Turner), but yeah, Benes didn't make anything clearer.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
little kon-el




> Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...
>
> > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> >
> > They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.
>
> I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?
>

They meaning the Legionnaires. The shield was meant to counteract anyone else that may be in the area. The Legionnaires didn't know that KK wouldn't have someone looking out for him, so they gave him a shield.

> > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> >
> > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> >
> > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
>
> How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*
>

It makes sense within the plot and it would make sense that it was Barry Allen that they brought back. All the points that were mentioned in the story were all points that were specific to where Barry Allen appeared and disappeared during Crisis. I wish they drew those lines closer so people noticed it. Metzler can be blamed for making things a bit vague too.

> > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> >
> > The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).
>
> Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.
>

Blue Valley isn't that far from Keystone. We might be able to surmise that through a combination of teleportation and his speed, he was able to get there pretty fast. As for Power Girl, it has been shown that it is easier to fly straight up and straight back down than to fly across the world in a linear fashion, so that's probably what she did.

> > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> >
> > Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."
>
> Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?
>

We don't know. This goes with a caveat hinted about when Superman went to the fortress of solitude and mentioned his friends..."as he got older, they appeared less and less." The Legion, even in post-crisis, was very reluctant in mentioning things to Superman that would affect their future. This mission was meant to be pretty quick and painless, and things went fubar when someone brought out the Legionnaires worst fears or passions during their tenuous mental state.

Something else to consider...why didn't they use a time bubble? Traditional LSH stories deal with the Legion traveling using time bubbles. What I'm thinking is that this Legion is from another parallel earth because their mode of transport is similar to a parallel earth travel (sort of a doorway/teleporter than a time bubble travel).

I'm thinking this Legion does not want to interrupt or interfere with another Earth.

- little kn-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
d




Kon-El you are so imformative and well versed in DC history. I love DC history so mcuh and it's such a shame that I enjoy marvel comics more the bulk of the time because I can't follow what's going on in DC.





> > Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...
> >
> > > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> > >
> > > They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.
> >
> > I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?
> >
>
> They meaning the Legionnaires. The shield was meant to counteract anyone else that may be in the area. The Legionnaires didn't know that KK wouldn't have someone looking out for him, so they gave him a shield.
>
> > > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> > >
> > > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> > >
> > > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
> >
> > How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*
> >
>
> It makes sense within the plot and it would make sense that it was Barry Allen that they brought back. All the points that were mentioned in the story were all points that were specific to where Barry Allen appeared and disappeared during Crisis. I wish they drew those lines closer so people noticed it. Metzler can be blamed for making things a bit vague too.
>
> > > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> > >
> > > The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).
> >
> > Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.
> >
>
> Blue Valley isn't that far from Keystone. We might be able to surmise that through a combination of teleportation and his speed, he was able to get there pretty fast. As for Power Girl, it has been shown that it is easier to fly straight up and straight back down than to fly across the world in a linear fashion, so that's probably what she did.
>
> > > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> > >
> > > Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."
> >
> > Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?
> >
>
> We don't know. This goes with a caveat hinted about when Superman went to the fortress of solitude and mentioned his friends..."as he got older, they appeared less and less." The Legion, even in post-crisis, was very reluctant in mentioning things to Superman that would affect their future. This mission was meant to be pretty quick and painless, and things went fubar when someone brought out the Legionnaires worst fears or passions during their tenuous mental state.
>
> Something else to consider...why didn't they use a time bubble? Traditional LSH stories deal with the Legion traveling using time bubbles. What I'm thinking is that this Legion is from another parallel earth because their mode of transport is similar to a parallel earth travel (sort of a doorway/teleporter than a time bubble travel).
>
> I'm thinking this Legion does not want to interrupt or interfere with another Earth.
>
> - little kn-el


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
d




Also 2 questions

1) I thought it was barry allen but do they actually show him returning? I jsut thought so because i knew I'd seen those crisis shots before. I guess I'm asking how do we know they didnt' mess up and only bring back wally

2) Where was wally? I thought wally has still been around and hadn't gone anywhere. Where'd he return from?


> Kon-El you are so imformative and well versed in DC history. I love DC history so mcuh and it's such a shame that I enjoy marvel comics more the bulk of the time because I can't follow what's going on in DC.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...
> > >
> > > > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> > > >
> > > > They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.
> > >
> > > I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?
> > >
> >
> > They meaning the Legionnaires. The shield was meant to counteract anyone else that may be in the area. The Legionnaires didn't know that KK wouldn't have someone looking out for him, so they gave him a shield.
> >
> > > > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> > > >
> > > > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> > > >
> > > > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
> > >
> > > How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*
> > >
> >
> > It makes sense within the plot and it would make sense that it was Barry Allen that they brought back. All the points that were mentioned in the story were all points that were specific to where Barry Allen appeared and disappeared during Crisis. I wish they drew those lines closer so people noticed it. Metzler can be blamed for making things a bit vague too.
> >
> > > > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> > > >
> > > > The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).
> > >
> > > Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.
> > >
> >
> > Blue Valley isn't that far from Keystone. We might be able to surmise that through a combination of teleportation and his speed, he was able to get there pretty fast. As for Power Girl, it has been shown that it is easier to fly straight up and straight back down than to fly across the world in a linear fashion, so that's probably what she did.
> >
> > > > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> > > >
> > > > Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."
> > >
> > > Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?
> > >
> >
> > We don't know. This goes with a caveat hinted about when Superman went to the fortress of solitude and mentioned his friends..."as he got older, they appeared less and less." The Legion, even in post-crisis, was very reluctant in mentioning things to Superman that would affect their future. This mission was meant to be pretty quick and painless, and things went fubar when someone brought out the Legionnaires worst fears or passions during their tenuous mental state.
> >
> > Something else to consider...why didn't they use a time bubble? Traditional LSH stories deal with the Legion traveling using time bubbles. What I'm thinking is that this Legion is from another parallel earth because their mode of transport is similar to a parallel earth travel (sort of a doorway/teleporter than a time bubble travel).
> >
> > I'm thinking this Legion does not want to interrupt or interfere with another Earth.
> >
> > - little kn-el


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Ronin & Sentry are cool




>
> > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
>
> It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
>
> The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.


I scoured every panel and I don't see Barry anywhere in that comic.

Are you talking about the guy who tells Karate Kid he can't go back to the future? That's Wildfire. Simplest explanation, Occam's razor, etc.

Oh wait - you're talking about the wand in Brainy's hand, right? I was interpreting that panel as metaphorical, but maybe it isn't. Maybe Barry is in the wand!

By the way, which female Legionnaire do you think has stayed in the present with Karate Kid? Think it's Dream Girl?

Oh - and why and how was Wally riding the lightning?


> > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> >
>
> We don't know. That's a mystery. I'm thinking that it might be another Legionnaire, but that's speculation.


It's Wildfire.





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Bobster




> So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?
>
> 1. Who is Proty?
>
> 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
>
> 3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?
>
> 4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?
>
> 5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?
>
> 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
>
> 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
>
> 8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?
>
> 9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?
>
> 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
>
> 11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?
>
> 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
>
> 13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.
>
> 14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?
>
> 15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?
>
> 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
>
> 17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?
>
> Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
>

"If you can't laugh at yourself other people will do it for you."


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
little kon-el




> >
> > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> >
> > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> >
> > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
>
>
> I scoured every panel and I don't see Barry anywhere in that comic.
>

Check it again. Remember the skeletal Flash that we see Batman and Green Lantern flashing back to? That's Barry Allen.

> Are you talking about the guy who tells Karate Kid he can't go back to the future? That's Wildfire. Simplest explanation, Occam's razor, etc.
>
> Oh wait - you're talking about the wand in Brainy's hand, right? I was interpreting that panel as metaphorical, but maybe it isn't. Maybe Barry is in the wand!
>

Yeah...I'm thinking it's the wand. At the point where Barry is in at towards the end of his "run" in the original Crisis, he was living lightning. And the best thing to hold living lightning is a lightning rod. It seems pretty simple.

> By the way, which female Legionnaire do you think has stayed in the present with Karate Kid? Think it's Dream Girl?
>

I don't think so. Why keep the character so much in the shadows? I think it might be someone else...another legionnaire that we didn't see...because why would you obscure it so much? Why would that be the mystery?

> Oh - and why and how was Wally riding the lightning?
>

Check out the last issue of the Flash. Bart Allen had the Speed Force taken out of him and, through his efforts and the efforts of Iris and Val (his girlfriend) they were able to disperse the lightning.

Wally was in the Speedforce (presumably) along with other speedsters (presumably). So that's how he rode the lightning back to Earth. My feeling is that the Speedforce has something to do with parallel worlds...and this Legion is definitely not of this Earth (they're probably from the Kingdom Come Earth that Starman mentions), so that's why they're interested in Barry Allen (the one of the first "parallel-earth" traveler to do so under his own power).
>
> > > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> > >
> >
> > We don't know. That's a mystery. I'm thinking that it might be another Legionnaire, but that's speculation.
>
>
> It's Wildfire.

I don't think so. He/She has long hair. If I think they're going with the whole "Great Disaster is Coming" storyline, then I would think that the long-haired person might be Kamandi, but that doesn't make much sense in the context of the story or as to why he's teaming up with KK.

- little kon-el
>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
little kon-el




> Also 2 questions
>
> 1) I thought it was barry allen but do they actually show him returning? I jsut thought so because i knew I'd seen those crisis shots before. I guess I'm asking how do we know they didnt' mess up and only bring back wally
>

They don't...but B5 does mention that they got what they wanted and they didn't want Wally. Barry makes the most sense. But it could be Bart or Max Mercury or Johnny Quick or anyone else in the speed force.

> 2) Where was wally? I thought wally has still been around and hadn't gone anywhere. Where'd he return from?
>

Wally wasn't necessarily around. He was mentioned by Bart that they had spent some time in a parallel world where the kids and Linda got older with Bart and they had a younger Jay Garrick and other speedsters.

Bart was the only one to make it back using Barry's suit, but when he gave the speedforce back into the universe (see the latest Flash issue) that probably allowed Wally and family to emerge back from the Speedforce.

I wonder if there will be other hiccups where people like Savitar or Johnny Quick or Max Mercury come back too.

- little kon-el
> > Kon-El you are so imformative and well versed in DC history. I love DC history so mcuh and it's such a shame that I enjoy marvel comics more the bulk of the time because I can't follow what's going on in DC.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...
> > > >
> > > > > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> > > > >
> > > > > They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.
> > > >
> > > > I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?
> > > >
> > >
> > > They meaning the Legionnaires. The shield was meant to counteract anyone else that may be in the area. The Legionnaires didn't know that KK wouldn't have someone looking out for him, so they gave him a shield.
> > >
> > > > > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> > > > >
> > > > > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> > > > >
> > > > > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
> > > >
> > > > How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*
> > > >
> > >
> > > It makes sense within the plot and it would make sense that it was Barry Allen that they brought back. All the points that were mentioned in the story were all points that were specific to where Barry Allen appeared and disappeared during Crisis. I wish they drew those lines closer so people noticed it. Metzler can be blamed for making things a bit vague too.
> > >
> > > > > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> > > > >
> > > > > The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Blue Valley isn't that far from Keystone. We might be able to surmise that through a combination of teleportation and his speed, he was able to get there pretty fast. As for Power Girl, it has been shown that it is easier to fly straight up and straight back down than to fly across the world in a linear fashion, so that's probably what she did.
> > >
> > > > > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> > > > >
> > > > > Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."
> > > >
> > > > Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?
> > > >
> > >
> > > We don't know. This goes with a caveat hinted about when Superman went to the fortress of solitude and mentioned his friends..."as he got older, they appeared less and less." The Legion, even in post-crisis, was very reluctant in mentioning things to Superman that would affect their future. This mission was meant to be pretty quick and painless, and things went fubar when someone brought out the Legionnaires worst fears or passions during their tenuous mental state.
> > >
> > > Something else to consider...why didn't they use a time bubble? Traditional LSH stories deal with the Legion traveling using time bubbles. What I'm thinking is that this Legion is from another parallel earth because their mode of transport is similar to a parallel earth travel (sort of a doorway/teleporter than a time bubble travel).
> > >
> > > I'm thinking this Legion does not want to interrupt or interfere with another Earth.
> > >
> > > - little kn-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
Marvin and Wendy




I must say they chose 3 beautiful women for the front cover and really fouled up that picture... especially PG...


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Lars




...lightning rod!

Sorry if this was obvious to everyone else, but I only noticed it after reading the last couple pages again, with much needed guidance from Lil' Kon-El's explanation (thanks!).

If you look really closely at the lightning rod in Brainiac's hand in the last panel, you can just make out a vague skull wearing the flash cowl. So I guess they really did capture Barry Allen(...assuming that's not supposed to be a reflection of someone off panel.)

While I like the general concept, the idea of Barry being trapped in that rod is not very appealing.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
TimPendragon




Why is everyone immediately assuming it's Barry? I don't see that it *has* to be Barry that the Legion resurrected. It could just as well have been Bart, in the aftermath of Flash #13. Considering that Bart was also a native to the 30th/31st century, it could definitely be him. Has any of the creators said for certain?

-TimPendragon

> > Also 2 questions
> >
> > 1) I thought it was barry allen but do they actually show him returning? I jsut thought so because i knew I'd seen those crisis shots before. I guess I'm asking how do we know they didnt' mess up and only bring back wally
> >
>
> They don't...but B5 does mention that they got what they wanted and they didn't want Wally. Barry makes the most sense. But it could be Bart or Max Mercury or Johnny Quick or anyone else in the speed force.
>
> > 2) Where was wally? I thought wally has still been around and hadn't gone anywhere. Where'd he return from?
> >
>
> Wally wasn't necessarily around. He was mentioned by Bart that they had spent some time in a parallel world where the kids and Linda got older with Bart and they had a younger Jay Garrick and other speedsters.
>
> Bart was the only one to make it back using Barry's suit, but when he gave the speedforce back into the universe (see the latest Flash issue) that probably allowed Wally and family to emerge back from the Speedforce.
>
> I wonder if there will be other hiccups where people like Savitar or Johnny Quick or Max Mercury come back too.
>
> - little kon-el
> > > Kon-El you are so imformative and well versed in DC history. I love DC history so mcuh and it's such a shame that I enjoy marvel comics more the bulk of the time because I can't follow what's going on in DC.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Thanks very much for the answers, and most make good sense, but I have a few more questions...
> > > > >
> > > > > > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They didn't know he would be a Legionnaire without someone looking after him.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm at a loss trying to parse this sentence. "They" who?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > They meaning the Legionnaires. The shield was meant to counteract anyone else that may be in the area. The Legionnaires didn't know that KK wouldn't have someone looking out for him, so they gave him a shield.
> > > >
> > > > > > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It isn't about bringing back Wally. Read it again. Wally was a "happy accident" that occurred. That even surprised brainy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The person that they brought back is Barry Allen...if you notice in the end.
> > > > >
> > > > > How in the world can you tell that's Barry Allen? *eek*
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It makes sense within the plot and it would make sense that it was Barry Allen that they brought back. All the points that were mentioned in the story were all points that were specific to where Barry Allen appeared and disappeared during Crisis. I wish they drew those lines closer so people noticed it. Metzler can be blamed for making things a bit vague too.
> > > >
> > > > > > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The JLA does have teleporter that all they have to do is walk through a doorway (ala the Authority).
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, but the panels actually show them running or flying to the spot, not teleporting.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blue Valley isn't that far from Keystone. We might be able to surmise that through a combination of teleportation and his speed, he was able to get there pretty fast. As for Power Girl, it has been shown that it is easier to fly straight up and straight back down than to fly across the world in a linear fashion, so that's probably what she did.
> > > >
> > > > > > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because they weren't sacrificing themselves to bring someone back. They knew that it might be a possibility, but the rods were used to "capture Barry Allen's essence."
> > > > >
> > > > > Then why couldn't they have just explained this to the JLA/JSA to avoid conflict?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > We don't know. This goes with a caveat hinted about when Superman went to the fortress of solitude and mentioned his friends..."as he got older, they appeared less and less." The Legion, even in post-crisis, was very reluctant in mentioning things to Superman that would affect their future. This mission was meant to be pretty quick and painless, and things went fubar when someone brought out the Legionnaires worst fears or passions during their tenuous mental state.
> > > >
> > > > Something else to consider...why didn't they use a time bubble? Traditional LSH stories deal with the Legion traveling using time bubbles. What I'm thinking is that this Legion is from another parallel earth because their mode of transport is similar to a parallel earth travel (sort of a doorway/teleporter than a time bubble travel).
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking this Legion does not want to interrupt or interfere with another Earth.
> > > >
> > > > - little kn-el


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Ronin & Sentry are cool




> > I scoured every panel and I don't see Barry anywhere in that comic.
> >
>
> Check it again. Remember the skeletal Flash that we see Batman and Green Lantern flashing back to? That's Barry Allen.


You're using a flashback as evidence Barry is back? Weird. OK. I guess you're just saying the writers must have Barry in mind if they showed us a Barry flashback.


> > Oh wait - you're talking about the wand in Brainy's hand, right? I was interpreting that panel as metaphorical, but maybe it isn't. Maybe Barry is in the wand!
> >
>
> Yeah...I'm thinking it's the wand. At the point where Barry is in at towards the end of his "run" in the original Crisis, he was living lightning. And the best thing to hold living lightning is a lightning rod. It seems pretty simple.


Is the Speedforce the same thing as lightning? I thought it was something more cosmic than that.

Hmm. But lightning was involved in how Barry got his powers in the first place.

What exactly is the connection between the Speedforce and lightning?

And thank you, by the way, for your patient willingness to keep answering questions.


> > By the way, which female Legionnaire do you think has stayed in the present with Karate Kid? Think it's Dream Girl?
> >
>
> I don't think so. Why keep the character so much in the shadows? I think it might be someone else...another legionnaire that we didn't see...because why would you obscure it so much? Why would that be the mystery?


Yeah, the obscuring bit seemed weird.


> Check out the last issue of the Flash. Bart Allen had the Speed Force taken out of him and, through his efforts and the efforts of Iris and Val (his girlfriend) they were able to disperse the lightning.


This goes back to my question about the relationship between the Speedforce and lightning.


> Wally was in the Speedforce (presumably) along with other speedsters (presumably). So that's how he rode the lightning back to Earth. My feeling is that the Speedforce has something to do with parallel worlds...and this Legion is definitely not of this Earth (they're probably from the Kingdom Come Earth that Starman mentions), so that's why they're interested in Barry Allen (the one of the first "parallel-earth" traveler to do so under his own power).


So the Speedforce is so cosmic that it relates to parallel worlds - yet somehow it's connected to lightning. This would seem to imply that lightning, also, is connected to parallel worlds.

Hmm. And lightning is involved with the Shazam transformation.


> >
> > > > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> > > >
> > >
> > > We don't know. That's a mystery. I'm thinking that it might be another Legionnaire, but that's speculation.
> >
> >
> > It's Wildfire.
>
> I don't think so. He/She has long hair.


No - the question asked, "Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?"

The word "before" means "in front of" in this context, I think. That would be Wildfire. The long-haired character wasn't in front of Karate Kid. She was beside him. Wildfire was in front of him, in the portal.


> If I think they're going with the whole "Great Disaster is Coming" storyline, then I would think that the long-haired person might be Kamandi, but that doesn't make much sense in the context of the story or as to why he's teaming up with KK.


Kamandi? Doubtful. But a fun idea. However - didn't that long-haired figure look feminine to you?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Zazu




> > 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
> >
>
> Hal Jordan was in Central City during Crisis, where he saw one of the after-images of Barry Allen as he was sacrificing himself during Crisis.

Hal was in Central City during COIE??? Hal wasn't in COIE at all. John was GL during that series. Wasn't Hal in space during Crisis?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Scott




> Hal wasn't in COIE at all. John was GL during that series. Wasn't Hal in space during Crisis?

You are correct. Hal was at the very least off Earth during the COIE.

Scott
Super Rubbery Bung: "When did the Marvel Family magic die, really?"
Scott: "1953."


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
little kon-el




> > > I scoured every panel and I don't see Barry anywhere in that comic.
> > >
> >
> > Check it again. Remember the skeletal Flash that we see Batman and Green Lantern flashing back to? That's Barry Allen.
>
>
> You're using a flashback as evidence Barry is back? Weird. OK. I guess you're just saying the writers must have Barry in mind if they showed us a Barry flashback.
>

The Flash back and inside the rod. If you look at the very end, you can just make out a face in the lightning rod which kind of looks like a skeletal Flash or it could be a distorted reflection. I'm leaning more towards the Flash because all of the signs point to it.

As to which Flash, that leaves it up to debate. Even Mark Waid mentions in his latest interview that this might not be the last we see of Bart Allen (or at least implies that we will see him in some fashion again).

I hope we do see him again, if only because Tim Drake is losing friends left and right.

>
> > > Oh wait - you're talking about the wand in Brainy's hand, right? I was interpreting that panel as metaphorical, but maybe it isn't. Maybe Barry is in the wand!
> > >
> >
> > Yeah...I'm thinking it's the wand. At the point where Barry is in at towards the end of his "run" in the original Crisis, he was living lightning. And the best thing to hold living lightning is a lightning rod. It seems pretty simple.
>
>
> Is the Speedforce the same thing as lightning? I thought it was something more cosmic than that.
>

The speed force seems to manifest itself as lightning. During Infinite Crisis, something went really really wrong with the Speedforce. My thought is that it is linked to parallel worlds in some way.


> Hmm. But lightning was involved in how Barry got his powers in the first place.
>
> What exactly is the connection between the Speedforce and lightning?
>

The way lightning seems to work, at least for Barry, is that it is called down and gives you a specific choice...sort of a "live fast but die young" sort of choice. We only see Barry Allen making that choice, so we aren't sure if Wally or the others had to make similar choices.

Whenever speedsters who use the speed force run, they gain access into the speed force, a cosmic Valhalla where all the speedsters go when they die. While running, speedsters are beckoned into the Speedforce and it takes strong emotional connections for this world for a speedster not to go into the next world, or the "speedster's afterlife." Only Wally has been ever to come back and forth from the Speedforce with any consistency.

If a speedster were to die without giving into the call of the Speedforce, the Black Flash is dispatched to take your soul into the Speedforce.

> And thank you, by the way, for your patient willingness to keep answering questions.
>
>

No problem...but I'm sure there are more knowledgeable fans out there than me.

> > > By the way, which female Legionnaire do you think has stayed in the present with Karate Kid? Think it's Dream Girl?
> > >
> >
> > I don't think so. Why keep the character so much in the shadows? I think it might be someone else...another legionnaire that we didn't see...because why would you obscure it so much? Why would that be the mystery?
>
>
> Yeah, the obscuring bit seemed weird.
>
>
> > Check out the last issue of the Flash. Bart Allen had the Speed Force taken out of him and, through his efforts and the efforts of Iris and Val (his girlfriend) they were able to disperse the lightning.
>
>
> This goes back to my question about the relationship between the Speedforce and lightning.
>
>

The speed force seems to manifest itself in the lightning. Most speedsters remember "lightning storms" right before they get their speed.
> > Wally was in the Speedforce (presumably) along with other speedsters (presumably). So that's how he rode the lightning back to Earth. My feeling is that the Speedforce has something to do with parallel worlds...and this Legion is definitely not of this Earth (they're probably from the Kingdom Come Earth that Starman mentions), so that's why they're interested in Barry Allen (the one of the first "parallel-earth" traveler to do so under his own power).
>
>
> So the Speedforce is so cosmic that it relates to parallel worlds - yet somehow it's connected to lightning. This would seem to imply that lightning, also, is connected to parallel worlds.
>
> Hmm. And lightning is involved with the Shazam transformation.
>

I think that lightning is just how it manifests itself. They've shown in Shazam and Flash that the wizard's lightning and the speedforce are two separate things. But it might make sense that lightning is the "delivery system" for quasi-magical power. It's one of the primordal forces of nature that isn't easily categorized by ancient man (it isn't hot like fire or runs like water or has any direction like animals...it's completely chaotic and at the whim of something else).


>
> > >
> > > > > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > We don't know. That's a mystery. I'm thinking that it might be another Legionnaire, but that's speculation.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's Wildfire.
> >
> > I don't think so. He/She has long hair.
>
>
> No - the question asked, "Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?"
>
> The word "before" means "in front of" in this context, I think. That would be Wildfire. The long-haired character wasn't in front of Karate Kid. She was beside him. Wildfire was in front of him, in the portal.
>
>
> > If I think they're going with the whole "Great Disaster is Coming" storyline, then I would think that the long-haired person might be Kamandi, but that doesn't make much sense in the context of the story or as to why he's teaming up with KK.
>
>
> Kamandi? Doubtful. But a fun idea. However - didn't that long-haired figure look feminine to you?
>

So does Kamandi. It's all that long, blonde hair \:\-\) .

- little kon-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
zvelf




> I must say they chose 3 beautiful women for the front cover and really fouled up that picture... especially PG...


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
little kon-el




> Why is everyone immediately assuming it's Barry? I don't see that it *has* to be Barry that the Legion resurrected. It could just as well have been Bart, in the aftermath of Flash #13. Considering that Bart was also a native to the 30th/31st century, it could definitely be him. Has any of the creators said for certain?
>
> -TimPendragon

They haven't said for certain, but it makes the most sense. Why give us all these clues pointing towards Barry and not have it be Barry at the end? Besides, Bart didn't die in the speedforce. He had the speedforce sucked out of him so he couldn't be one with the speedforce. That makes resurrection pretty tough.

I have been wrong before, but it really does seem like this LSH capture Barry Allen. This makes sense because Barry Allen is the only individual who can traverse parallel worlds on his own, so that makes him a prized for anyone trying to stop a "great disaster" from occurring.

- little kon-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
zvelf




Thanks for answering all the questions, kon.

I think kon is right. Why flashback to Barry if Barry has no function in the story. And I think there are two shadowy figures who join Karate Kid at the end, one male and one female, and neither of them are the Legionnaires that were with him before (it would make no sense to obscure them if that's who they were).



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
Orion Prime




> So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?

The particulars of this story are by far from over. You might consider this a chapter of a bigger story. Interesting read though.

>
> 1. Who is Proty?
Antarean pet of Chameleon Boy who sacrificed itself, by replacing Saturn Girl in a ceremony(as referred to) to bring back Lightning Lad.
>
> 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
This is something i'm surprised no one picked up on, even though it was Barry. It was Barry's lab, where he first received his speed powers. As everyone has said, Hal was off planet when COIE was going on. The image presented was when Barry was initially hit and had nothing to do with COIE.

>
> 3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?
I think this was answered in another post already.
>
> 4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?
After realizing where they were, each had a different memory triggered. Both were thinking of Barry, as were we all, and hoping this is who was being pulled from the speed force.
>
> 5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?
>
> 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?

The way all of this was pulled off, i think the Legion knew more than they were letting on too. I think the sacrificing portion was a misnomer, to throw people off the trail.

>
> 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
To be told at a later date. I think we will be seeing more of this Legion in the near future. Also, with villains like Per Degaton(JSA), Ultra-Humanite(JSA) and Despero(JLA) covorting around, at a future time, i can only iimagine the problems described by the legion have somethign to do with them and possibly Mordru.

>
> 8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?
>
> 9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?

What is in side of Red Tornado is the Tornado Tyrant, from way back and essentially, correct me if i am wrong, that is what gives Red Tornado control over the wind and almost makes him elemental in nature.
From the Legion Lore i remember, Wildfire's initial suit was robotic in nature, but it was later portrayed as him just being energy in a containment suit and giving it form. There was nothing mechanical in it.

>
> 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”

I don;t remember it being stated specifically that Jay was limited to the speed of sound. I know he isn't as fast, without being augmented by the speed force.

>
> 11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?
>
> 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?

Q11 & 12, that is the mystery. I think we might see KK popping up in some current issues. One thing though, considering we are dealing with time travel, this could have happened off panel, someone else came back as the Legion was going home. Could it have been a speedster?
Could it have been Bart or maybe XS, since the other shadowy figure was a female and they were talking about how fast and such?


>
> 13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.
I'm kind of thinking he thought it might have been Barry as well. Consider this, the last time we saw or knew anything about Wally, he was on another Earth with Linda and the kids. How he got into riding the lightning....good question.
>
> 14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?
>
> 15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?

I think he took a piece of it, but not all of it. I also think due to his martial arts training, he survived it, since he has survived worse.

>
> 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
Bluff or it might have been going on what happened before might happen again.
>
> 17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?

From all looks and feels, it was, but the big difference is KK and Sensor Girl. KK was killed by Nemesis Kid and Princess Projectra returned to the Legion as Sensor Girl. It was mentioned by StarMan that KK did return from the dead, but this was never nor has ever been stated or explained.
With all of the revisions of the previous IC, could be, might be, hopefully is!!!
>
> Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
>

In some ways, yes, but it opened new doors also and even gave some of us old fogey's a chance to see the original Legion again. The different versions of the Legion have been good, but the original is better. I wasn't expecting to see Timber Wolf, especially in that costume. He was, from my point of view, a severly under used character. Good to see him in play again.

Good set of questions. I hope i answered what you needed and perhaps stirred up more.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Gawain




> > Hal wasn't in COIE at all. John was GL during that series. Wasn't Hal in space during Crisis?
>
> You are correct. Hal was at the very least off Earth during the COIE.

Everyone seems to be under the impression that Hal and Bruce had the same realization and flashback -- i.e. Barry sliding through time and space in his final moments. Not so. Bruce realized that he was in the place where he saw the image of a dying Barry just prior to the Crisis. But Hal realized that he was in the science lab where Barry got his powers -- hence the door marked "Laboratory". Granted the image they showed of what Hal was seeing (in his mind's eye at least) was hard to make out, but if you look that's what it is: the lightning hitting Barry and the chemicals on the table.

So Hal was at the spot of Flash's 'birth' and Bruce at his death (or very nearly). Both important places in the life of Barry Allen, but only the lab should have had specific meaning for Wally.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
Ronin & Sentry are cool




> ...This makes sense because Barry Allen is the only individual who can traverse parallel worlds on his own, so that makes him a prize for anyone trying to stop a "great disaster" from occurring.


Wow - I didn't know he could do that and I didn't know he was the only one who could!

Very cool.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Ronin & Sentry are cool




> > So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?
> >
> > 1. Who is Proty?
> >
> > 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
> >
> > 3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?
> >
> > 4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?
> >
> > 5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?
> >
> > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> >
> > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> >
> > 8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?
> >
> > 9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?
> >
> > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> >
> > 11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?
> >
> > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> >
> > 13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.
> >
> > 14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?
> >
> > 15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?
> >
> > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> >
> > 17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?
> >
> > Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
> >
>
> "If you can't laugh at yourself other people will do it for you."


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
little kon-el




> > ...This makes sense because Barry Allen is the only individual who can traverse parallel worlds on his own, so that makes him a prize for anyone trying to stop a "great disaster" from occurring.
>
>
> Wow - I didn't know he could do that and I didn't know he was the only one who could!
>
> Very cool.
>

The PC Superman could possibly traverse dimensions, along with the GA Superman and the GA Flash. The main thing is that Barry could do it consistently under his own ability and he was one of the first to do it. When Wally and the GA Flash and the Supermen did it, they needed a treadmill to do it accurately. Presumably, Barry could vibrate to Earth 2 because he was skilled in doing so.


- little kon-el


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
d




> > > ...This makes sense because Barry Allen is the only individual who can traverse parallel worlds on his own, so that makes him a prize for anyone trying to stop a "great disaster" from occurring.
> >
> >
> > Wow - I didn't know he could do that and I didn't know he was the only one who could!
> >
> > Very cool.
> >
>
> The PC Superman could possibly traverse dimensions, along with the GA Superman and the GA Flash. The main thing is that Barry could do it consistently under his own ability and he was one of the first to do it. When Wally and the GA Flash and the Supermen did it, they needed a treadmill to do it accurately. Presumably, Barry could vibrate to Earth 2 because he was skilled in doing so.
>
>
> - little kon-el

Also Val mentions someone is faster than wally...Sounds like Barry as opposed to Bart once again.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Marvin and Wendy




> > > So could this issue be more cryptic? I’m not a long-time follower of the JLA or LoSH, so I might miss out on some references, but this was ridiculous. And I also don’t want to have to buy Countdown to understand this issue. So can anyone answer these questions?
> > >
> > > 1. Who is Proty?
> > >
> > > 2. Where was Hal in Central City where he had been before?
> > >
> > > 3. Where was Batman in Gotham City where he had been before?
> > >
> > > 4. Why and how did Hal and Bruce see Barry?
> > >
> > > 5. Did Dreamgirl foresee that she was going to die or was Jay just speculating? And since no one died, did she foresee that too? Didn’t she say otherwise before? Was she wrong?
> > >
> > > 6. Why did Karate Kid need the shield? No JLA/JSA member was near him or knew where he was. If it was to protect him from the lightning, wouldn’t that circumvent the self-sacrifice aspect of the whole scenario?
> > >
> > > 7. How does bringing Wally back “save a universe” as Dreamgirl said?
> > >
> > > 8. Why does Karate Kid say, “Lightning Lad,” before he is struck by the lightning? Where did the lightning come from?
> > >
> > > 9. Why does Wildfire say to Red Tornado, “Fight what’s inside you, John”? Was it previously in continuity that Wildfire has Red Tornado’s body? Is it now in current continuity? How can that even be since Wildfire is made up of energy?
> > >
> > > 10. How did Jay get from Keystone City to Blue Valley (at least a few hundred miles) so fast? Isn’t his speed limited to the speed of sound now? I know Power Girl is now a full Kryptonian, but can even she fly from Tokyo to Nebraska, fully half way around the world, in the time it takes to say, “Tracking them right now.”
> > >
> > > 11. What does Karate Kid mean when he says, “No, you’re not,” after Wally says, “I’m faster than anyone”? Who does KK think is faster?
> > >
> > > 12. Who is the shadowy figure who appears before Karate Kid near the end?
> > >
> > > 13. Did Brainiac 5 not know who the Legion was retrieving? He seemed surprised to hear it was Wally.
> > >
> > > 14. Who did Batman think was going to be revived?
> > >
> > > 15. Did Karate Kid really dodge the lightning, or if he was just being facetious as we saw him get hit, what actually happened?
> > >
> > > 16. Why didn’t a Legionnaire die as previously stated would be the case?
> > >
> > > 17. Was this a pre-Crisis version of the Legion or the New Earth version or some other version altogether?
> > >
> > > Was this issue anticlimactic or what? I think it's one of the most confusing issues I've ever read in a comic and I've been reading comics for over 20 years.
> > >
> >
> > "If you can't laugh at yourself other people will do it for you."


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP

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