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Author
The Rev




I am an avid reader of all things JSA and a bit of an OCD completist as well. This being said, I was recently perusing my Starman collection and came across issue 75 which kind of bridges several stories and leads into the final arc of the series. It struck me how interesting the interaction between Jack and Clark played out and how much I enjoyed this series for just such moments and these brief interjections which Robinson seemed so good at. It made me wonder which of these series and related series (legacy stuff) I have enjoyed the most so I thought I would put the question out there for any of you who are interested in responding.

Which of the JSA or related series have you enjoyed the most?

Of the series, which story arcs have you enjoyed the most?

Why? What struck you about these stories and what made them stick with you?

I have to say that Robinson's Starman is probably my favorite overall book of all time though Jack is not necessarily my favorite character. I just loved the way that Robinson succeeded in bringing these antiquated characters into the here and now and giving them a humanity and a relevance that has arguably led to the success that they are experiencing now. I'm not necessarily saying that if there had never been a Starman there wouldn't be a modern day JSA but it is an interesting thought especially considering that Robinson and Jack were there for the initial arc of the series that launched the JSA back into prominance. Please respond and don't be shy with your responces. I'm open to any of the legacy characters no matter how tenuous their connection to the JSA. If you love the Firebrand series (never read it myself), throw it out there. I loved Damage, I enjoyed the Ray, I even read most of the Black Condor series all b/c they were legacy hereos (sort of.)

Anyone else willing to throw anything out? I'd love to hear what you have to say.

The Rev



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Talezite




> I am an avid reader of all things JSA and a bit of an OCD completist as well. This being said, I was recently perusing my Starman collection and came across issue 75 which kind of bridges several stories and leads into the final arc of the series. It struck me how interesting the interaction between Jack and Clark played out and how much I enjoyed this series for just such moments and these brief interjections which Robinson seemed so good at. It made me wonder which of these series and related series (legacy stuff) I have enjoyed the most so I thought I would put the question out there for any of you who are interested in responding.
>
> Which of the JSA or related series have you enjoyed the most?
>
> Of the series, which story arcs have you enjoyed the most?
>
> Why? What struck you about these stories and what made them stick with you?
>
> I have to say that Robinson's Starman is probably my favorite overall book of all time though Jack is not necessarily my favorite character. I just loved the way that Robinson succeeded in bringing these antiquated characters into the here and now and giving them a humanity and a relevance that has arguably led to the success that they are experiencing now. I'm not necessarily saying that if there had never been a Starman there wouldn't be a modern day JSA but it is an interesting thought especially considering that Robinson and Jack were there for the initial arc of the series that launched the JSA back into prominance. Please respond and don't be shy with your responces. I'm open to any of the legacy characters no matter how tenuous their connection to the JSA. If you love the Firebrand series (never read it myself), throw it out there. I loved Damage, I enjoyed the Ray, I even read most of the Black Condor series all b/c they were legacy hereos (sort of.)
>
> Anyone else willing to throw anything out? I'd love to hear what you have to say.
>
> The Rev
>

Thats alot of food for thought. I am definately with you on Starman, that to me was the quintessential comic series. It had alot of good things going for it and yeah I think it reactivated interest in the golden age DC characters, that and the elseworlds series the Golden Age...also written by Robinson I believe. In fact your post has inspired me to re read my Starman series and thats always a good thing. I have not read it since the series ended.

1) JSA series (or related) I have enjoyed the most: Starman, Hourman (the android had a certain charm, Damage, Hawkman (newest), any limited series or recent comics with Wildcat in them, The Doctor Midnight limited series (Matt Wagner) and the first Ray mini series (I did not read alot of the ongoing) also The Spectre series (by Ostlander and Mandrake)

2) Why I liked them/what made them stick with me

a)Starman : To me Jack Knight was a very compelling character in that he was the hero who did not want to be a hero who grew into one at the end. Its a story of getting older,accepting more responsibility, and that of maturity. The way his brother and Dad were handled were very nice to watch. It was tough to watch his Dad die fighting the Mist but it was a nice end to the original Starman. Also the character of the Shade was so well written and developed that I really wish Robinson would write an ongoing Shade series...however unlikely. The idea of good and evil as concepts dissolving with time (as he was immortal) is an interesting one. The Shade spent time as both a villian and a hero and his motivation still remains vital. Also the legacy effect in action with all the other Starmen being used including the one who "died" in Crisis on Infinate Earths. Also least I forget Soloman Grundy used as a sympathetic and serious character! That was awesome. To many times he has been portrayed a mindless brute rather than the cursed soul that he sometimes can be. Theres more but I will save that for another time.

b)Hourman......The andriod hourman was a cool character to me in that he has a sense of responsibilty and tried to learn to be human who also controlling time powers of great magnitude. The reason I thought this was good was that in his fights with Amazo and interactions with Snapper Carr you got to see a very heroic character who was trapped in time and was a keeper of the Rex Tyler legacy. Things that stuck with me ...Snapper car's role and his friendship with Hourman. Hourman stuggling with the identity of himself and temporal variants. Personally I was a little let down when this series ended because I thought the premise was so strong. Ultimately his sacrifice in JSA to bring back Rex was moving. I think altruistic characters are a rare and good thing in comics. Another thing that stuck me is that the art fit this comic perfectly. Rags Morales style really set the tone with the series.

c) Damage....The whole idea of character who does not know who his parents are is always nice to see play out. The references to the human bomb, Phantom lady and Iron Munroe were nice touches. Next to Star man Damage is the best thing to spin out of Zero Hour. (imo) Things that stuck with me was how Damage's raw power level was a reached strange level. The whole restarting of the DCU from an explosion of his is a crazy idea.

d)Hawkman.....The fist three years of the Hawkman series (or so) was a great read. The whole perpetual rencarnate thing was cool. In a way we could say Carter Hall is like a Highlander with a wing pack. Things that stuck out to me was the development of St Roch (the city) and the acknowledgement that Carter and Ray Palmer (silver age Atom) have always been good friends even through they are differant characters. Unlike the combative relationship he has with Green Arrow, Ray and Carter could sit down and talk about archeology and lost civilizations and thats great stuff! The relationship to Kendra is always interesting and it has the ups and downs that many relationships always have but on a magnified level if you tie in thier tied reincarnation backstory. I never read this title was it was just Hawkgirl. Use of the Shadow Thief as a bad guy as well as the Gentleman ghost is always cool to see as they are unique Hawkman villians.

e) The Doctor Mignight series: This was a nice read that made Midnight cool to me again, The painted art set a nice tone and as always Wagner can deliver a character driven story. To me this paved the way to the current Doctor Midnight (in the JSA) and remined me that he was not just another batman clone. This is worth digging for if you have not read it and has an interesting history of delay....that stuck with me. That of course was back in the day when series that were too late just got released in thier entirely later on rater than making the reader wait months between issues. Ah the good ole days ;\)

Wildcat (limted series Wildcat vs Batman), Spectre, and Ray series I will post soon........I am outta time unfortunately.


As always good reading to you all.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Windows XP
The Rev




> b)Hourman......The andriod hourman was a cool character to me in that he has a sense of responsibilty and tried to learn to be human who also controlling time powers of great magnitude. The reason I thought this was good was that in his fights with Amazo and interactions with Snapper Carr you got to see a very heroic character who was trapped in time and was a keeper of the Rex Tyler legacy. Things that stuck with me ...Snapper car's role and his friendship with Hourman. Hourman stuggling with the identity of himself and temporal variants. Personally I was a little let down when this series ended because I thought the premise was so strong. Ultimately his sacrifice in JSA to bring back Rex was moving. I think altruistic characters are a rare and good thing in comics. Another thing that stuck me is that the art fit this comic perfectly. Rags Morales style really set the tone with the series.
>
I have to agree. I came onto this series very late thinking that this Hourman could never carry his own book but when a friend told me what I was missing I tried it and was hooked. I miss Bethany and all of their interactions but I do believe that the thing I miss most is this representation of Snapper.

> c) Damage....The whole idea of character who does not know who his parents are is always nice to see play out. The references to the human bomb, Phantom lady and Iron Munroe were nice touches. Next to Star man Damage is the best thing to spin out of Zero Hour. (imo) Things that stuck with me was how Damage's raw power level was a reached strange level. The whole restarting of the DCU from an explosion of his is a crazy idea.
>
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed this book. This guy is still one of my favortie characters and I am elated to see him on the team.

> d)Hawkman.....The fist three years of the Hawkman series (or so) was a great read. The whole perpetual rencarnate thing was cool. In a way we could say Carter Hall is like a Highlander with a wing pack. Things that stuck out to me was the development of St Roch (the city) and the acknowledgement that Carter and Ray Palmer (silver age Atom) have always been good friends even through they are differant characters. Unlike the combative relationship he has with Green Arrow, Ray and Carter could sit down and talk about archeology and lost civilizations and thats great stuff! The relationship to Kendra is always interesting and it has the ups and downs that many relationships always have but on a magnified level if you tie in thier tied reincarnation backstory. I never read this title was it was just Hawkgirl. Use of the Shadow Thief as a bad guy as well as the Gentleman ghost is always cool to see as they are unique Hawkman villians.
>
The only comment I would make to this is one that I have made repeatedly on this board...Simonson is best read in chunks. If you can find it for little expense, go back and pick up the Hawkgirl and sit down and read it all at once. I found it to be pretty enjoyable that way rather than trying to read it a book at a time. You are right though that Johns' run on the book was excellent.

> e) The Doctor Mignight series: This was a nice read that made Midnight cool to me again, The painted art set a nice tone and as always Wagner can deliver a character driven story. To me this paved the way to the current Doctor Midnight (in the JSA) and remined me that he was not just another batman clone. This is worth digging for if you have not read it and has an interesting history of delay....that stuck with me. That of course was back in the day when series that were too late just got released in thier entirely later on rater than making the reader wait months between issues. Ah the good ole days ;\)
>
I had almost forgotten about this series. These were some other books that I found in a bargain bin for $1 each or I might have never bought them. A great story and a classic twist on a very similar origin to the classic character.

> Wildcat (limted series Wildcat vs Batman), Spectre, and Ray series I will post soon........I am outta time unfortunately.
>
I look forward to what you have to say. I really enjoyed the Ray much more than I ever thought I would and Ostrander's Spectre is second only to Starman in my favorites list. It's funny how I find myself more drawn to some of these anciliary books than I do the core book. I will always love All Star, All Star Squadron, Infinity, Inc., JSA, and now Justice Society but some of these individual character books are great.

The Rev


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Talezite




> > b)Hourman......The andriod hourman was a cool character to me in that he has a sense of responsibilty and tried to learn to be human who also controlling time powers of great magnitude. The reason I thought this was good was that in his fights with Amazo and interactions with Snapper Carr you got to see a very heroic character who was trapped in time and was a keeper of the Rex Tyler legacy. Things that stuck with me ...Snapper car's role and his friendship with Hourman. Hourman stuggling with the identity of himself and temporal variants. Personally I was a little let down when this series ended because I thought the premise was so strong. Ultimately his sacrifice in JSA to bring back Rex was moving. I think altruistic characters are a rare and good thing in comics. Another thing that stuck me is that the art fit this comic perfectly. Rags Morales style really set the tone with the series.
> >
> I have to agree. I came onto this series very late thinking that this Hourman could never carry his own book but when a friend told me what I was missing I tried it and was hooked. I miss Bethany and all of their interactions but I do believe that the thing I miss most is this representation of Snapper.
>
> > c) Damage....The whole idea of character who does not know who his parents are is always nice to see play out. The references to the human bomb, Phantom lady and Iron Munroe were nice touches. Next to Star man Damage is the best thing to spin out of Zero Hour. (imo) Things that stuck with me was how Damage's raw power level was a reached strange level. The whole restarting of the DCU from an explosion of his is a crazy idea.
> >
> I'm just glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed this book. This guy is still one of my favortie characters and I am elated to see him on the team.
>
> > d)Hawkman.....The fist three years of the Hawkman series (or so) was a great read. The whole perpetual rencarnate thing was cool. In a way we could say Carter Hall is like a Highlander with a wing pack. Things that stuck out to me was the development of St Roch (the city) and the acknowledgement that Carter and Ray Palmer (silver age Atom) have always been good friends even through they are differant characters. Unlike the combative relationship he has with Green Arrow, Ray and Carter could sit down and talk about archeology and lost civilizations and thats great stuff! The relationship to Kendra is always interesting and it has the ups and downs that many relationships always have but on a magnified level if you tie in thier tied reincarnation backstory. I never read this title was it was just Hawkgirl. Use of the Shadow Thief as a bad guy as well as the Gentleman ghost is always cool to see as they are unique Hawkman villians.
> >
> The only comment I would make to this is one that I have made repeatedly on this board...Simonson is best read in chunks. If you can find it for little expense, go back and pick up the Hawkgirl and sit down and read it all at once. I found it to be pretty enjoyable that way rather than trying to read it a book at a time. You are right though that Johns' run on the book was excellent.
>
> > e) The Doctor Mignight series: This was a nice read that made Midnight cool to me again, The painted art set a nice tone and as always Wagner can deliver a character driven story. To me this paved the way to the current Doctor Midnight (in the JSA) and remined me that he was not just another batman clone. This is worth digging for if you have not read it and has an interesting history of delay....that stuck with me. That of course was back in the day when series that were too late just got released in thier entirely later on rater than making the reader wait months between issues. Ah the good ole days ;\)
> >
> I had almost forgotten about this series. These were some other books that I found in a bargain bin for $1 each or I might have never bought them. A great story and a classic twist on a very similar origin to the classic character.
>
> > Wildcat (limted series Wildcat vs Batman), Spectre, and Ray series I will post soon........I am outta time unfortunately.
> >
> I look forward to what you have to say. I really enjoyed the Ray much more than I ever thought I would and Ostrander's Spectre is second only to Starman in my favorites list. It's funny how I find myself more drawn to some of these anciliary books than I do the core book. I will always love All Star, All Star Squadron, Infinity, Inc., JSA, and now Justice Society but some of these individual character books are great.
>
> The Rev


Hey all. Cool Rev, I enjoy reading your posts as well. Always good to shoot the breeze with fellow fans and all that. I think the reason that the "secondary" series are so good (ie: the Spectre) etc is that there is alot of room for interperation on the character in that his history is so spread out over the years and particually with the Spectre the concept and perception of vengeance seems to change. (The JM Dematies series where Hal Jordan had the mantle of the Wrath of God comes to mind)

onto part2

Wildcat series (limited Wildcat vs Batman): To me this was a cool series in that it had a classic fight I am sure fans were curious to see. The whole Teacher(Wildcat) vs Student (Bruce Wayne/Batman) dynamic. It was not the most exceptional series but was an enjoyable read showing how good of a fighter Wildcat actually is and some more background on him training Bats as well as his links to Catwoman. Its only three issues and I am sure its cheap. Also his assorted appearances in Guy Gardner/GL made me laugh. Ted coming off as a grizzled ex boxer with great one liners and a regular at Warriors kind of made it feel like the superhero version of Cheers. (for the younger people here Cheers was sitcom in a bar "where everyone knows your name", a funny character driven show..imo) Last thought on Wildcat I would buy multiple copies of a limted series or unlimted series if DC ever found the right guy to script it. I think Ted is a great character with a rich history that can still be tapped into. I will always remember when he was "crippled" in the original Crisis on Infinate Earths...its powerful stuff to me and that bothered me as much as Barry Allen dying in that series! (at the time)

The Spectre: I have so many good things to say about this character but I will focus on the John Ostlander/Mandrake series. It was the perfect synthesis of story telling and art.....the pencils of Mandrake were very loose and ethereal when dealing with supernatural happenings. Even the use of a a then tired glow in dark covers actually fit this series. The first issue had one and the Halloween issue (naturally). The attempt to really develop the Jim Corrigan character was impressive and there was no doubt left in the readers mind that the Spectre was not just Corrigan's ghost or even an exaggerated version of his own personality but a completly seperate character (ie: the Wrath of God or the Presence if you like) that Jim was somtimes at odds with. I liked the early issues alot with use of Jim Corrigan's father , the debate on morality, the Spectre's version of Justice (as well as Jims), his friend Amy who was dying of cancer, all of that drama and pathos but done well with some solid philosophical ideas behind it. Also the comsology of the Spectre and how there were other hosts of the Wrath. That was kinda cool. It was rarely talked about before as I remember. In the zero issue in his encounter with Beltane when The Spectre says "You have misjudged my mission Beltane. My purpose is not to purge evil but to confront it, comprehend it, and punish it!" "And whatever your intentions, you are guilty of evil Beltane!" "And on this plane of exsistence there is no escape!" "I call upon the spirits of the Dead those who were slain by you over the centuries. Ask them for mercy." To me those lines break down the Spectre in who he is character wise. There is alot more to that story and I highly reccomend the zero issue and the whole Spectre series. I remember the first isue was in 92 but I can't recall off the top of my head when it ended. I think the series also showed some of the limts of the Spectre's powers and his realtionship with the angels of DCU particually Michael. I think his series was cancelled before he met Zauriel and that would have been cool to see for sure! I mainly remember the first 36 issues or so off the top of my head.

More Spectre highpoints: Any cover by Charles Vess, or Timothy Truman, the use of his old enemies like Azmodus,etc or other demonic bad guys,the use of mystic favorites like Etrigan, Phantom Stranger, Zantanna, Dr Fate etc....a partically funny line from Etrigan when Zee changes her look..."No backwards spells? No fish-net hose?! I hates it when a tradition goes!!" ;\) too funny

Also the Legends of the DCU series that had the Spectre and Hal Jordan in it was great stuff that led into the next ongoing Spectre series.


I am going to have to save the Ray for next time, again I am out of time.


as always good reading to you all ;\)

(I will continue with the Ray)



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Windows XP
The Rev




Thanks for your thoughts on Ted. I have never really payed a whole lot of attention to him besides as a secondary character. He had some great moments in the early issues of Simone's Birds of Prey run and the first JSA series from the early '90s but I have not read the Batman series and I had not given him a lot of attention elsewhere. I will have to go back and check some of these out.

> The Spectre: I have so many good things to say about this character but I will focus on the John Ostlander/Mandrake series. It was the perfect synthesis of story telling and art.....the pencils of Mandrake were very loose and ethereal when dealing with supernatural happenings. Even the use of a a then tired glow in dark covers actually fit this series. The first issue had one and the Halloween issue (naturally). The attempt to really develop the Jim Corrigan character was impressive and there was no doubt left in the readers mind that the Spectre was not just Corrigan's ghost or even an exaggerated version of his own personality but a completly seperate character (ie: the Wrath of God or the Presence if you like) that Jim was somtimes at odds with. I liked the early issues alot with use of Jim Corrigan's father , the debate on morality, the Spectre's version of Justice (as well as Jims), his friend Amy who was dying of cancer, all of that drama and pathos but done well with some solid philosophical ideas behind it. Also the comsology of the Spectre and how there were other hosts of the Wrath. That was kinda cool. It was rarely talked about before as I remember. In the zero issue in his encounter with Beltane when The Spectre says "You have misjudged my mission Beltane. My purpose is not to purge evil but to confront it, comprehend it, and punish it!" "And whatever your intentions, you are guilty of evil Beltane!" "And on this plane of exsistence there is no escape!" "I call upon the spirits of the Dead those who were slain by you over the centuries. Ask them for mercy." To me those lines break down the Spectre in who he is character wise. There is alot more to that story and I highly reccomend the zero issue and the whole Spectre series. I remember the first isue was in 92 but I can't recall off the top of my head when it ended. I think the series also showed some of the limts of the Spectre's powers and his realtionship with the angels of DCU particually Michael. I think his series was cancelled before he met Zauriel and that would have been cool to see for sure! I mainly remember the first 36 issues or so off the top of my head.
>
> More Spectre highpoints: Any cover by Charles Vess, or Timothy Truman, the use of his old enemies like Azmodus,etc or other demonic bad guys,the use of mystic favorites like Etrigan, Phantom Stranger, Zantanna, Dr Fate etc....a partically funny line from Etrigan when Zee changes her look..."No backwards spells? No fish-net hose?! I hates it when a tradition goes!!" ;\) too funny
>
> Also the Legends of the DCU series that had the Spectre and Hal Jordan in it was great stuff that led into the next ongoing Spectre series.
>
I can't agree with you more. I have LOVED this character since I discovered him a few years ago. He is easily my second favorite character in all of the JSA stuff I have read (second only to Alan Scott). As my name implies, I am very interested in all things theological and to have this character whose initial creation centered on him being the incarnation of the wrath of God really piqued my interest. I have sought out as much of his history as I can afford and the only thing I have been really disappointed in thus far was the late 80s run by Moench. That is not a slight to Moench b/c I have read many of his things that have been quite good but the way he handled the Spectre, and especially Corrigan, just seemed to be a compete farce of the character. Just the fact that Madame Xanadu was able to enthrall the Spectre with her femininity and the fact that he seemed to be "one of the guys" so much of the time really seemed to weaken him for me. This coupled with the portrayal of Corrigan just seemed to be off to me. I've read this run twice trying to find good points and I did enjoy the first few issues to some degree but overall it just didn't seem like the Spectre to me. (I also felt that it kind of layed the groundwork for the way the Spectre seemed to be taken in by Eclipso during Infinite Crisis which again seemed to reduce him to the lowest common denominator of a male stereotype being led around by his libido.) I guess I am just a fan of the Spectre as this supernatural being who is beyond those things especially when he is not tethered to a human host. Now that I have rambled enough, I agree that Hal's Spectre was a good twist and I am even finding elements of Crispus Allen's Spectre to like but I will always love Corrigan the most and nobody has portrayed Corrigan as well as Ostrander. The Fleischer stuff in Adventure comics was groundbreaking and great but I just fell in love with the combination of Ostrander's writing and thematic stories and Mandrake's artwork. I hope I haven't gone on too much but I just had to share this with a fellow Spectre fan since I seem to find so few that even really know who he is.

Looking forward to your Ray comments,

The Rev


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Talezite




> Thanks for your thoughts on Ted. I have never really payed a whole lot of attention to him besides as a secondary character. He had some great moments in the early issues of Simone's Birds of Prey run and the first JSA series from the early '90s but I have not read the Batman series and I had not given him a lot of attention elsewhere. I will have to go back and check some of these out.
>
> > The Spectre: I have so many good things to say about this character but I will focus on the John Ostlander/Mandrake series. It was the perfect synthesis of story telling and art.....the pencils of Mandrake were very loose and ethereal when dealing with supernatural happenings. Even the use of a a then tired glow in dark covers actually fit this series. The first issue had one and the Halloween issue (naturally). The attempt to really develop the Jim Corrigan character was impressive and there was no doubt left in the readers mind that the Spectre was not just Corrigan's ghost or even an exaggerated version of his own personality but a completly seperate character (ie: the Wrath of God or the Presence if you like) that Jim was somtimes at odds with. I liked the early issues alot with use of Jim Corrigan's father , the debate on morality, the Spectre's version of Justice (as well as Jims), his friend Amy who was dying of cancer, all of that drama and pathos but done well with some solid philosophical ideas behind it. Also the comsology of the Spectre and how there were other hosts of the Wrath. That was kinda cool. It was rarely talked about before as I remember. In the zero issue in his encounter with Beltane when The Spectre says "You have misjudged my mission Beltane. My purpose is not to purge evil but to confront it, comprehend it, and punish it!" "And whatever your intentions, you are guilty of evil Beltane!" "And on this plane of exsistence there is no escape!" "I call upon the spirits of the Dead those who were slain by you over the centuries. Ask them for mercy." To me those lines break down the Spectre in who he is character wise. There is alot more to that story and I highly reccomend the zero issue and the whole Spectre series. I remember the first isue was in 92 but I can't recall off the top of my head when it ended. I think the series also showed some of the limts of the Spectre's powers and his realtionship with the angels of DCU particually Michael. I think his series was cancelled before he met Zauriel and that would have been cool to see for sure! I mainly remember the first 36 issues or so off the top of my head.
> >
> > More Spectre highpoints: Any cover by Charles Vess, or Timothy Truman, the use of his old enemies like Azmodus,etc or other demonic bad guys,the use of mystic favorites like Etrigan, Phantom Stranger, Zantanna, Dr Fate etc....a partically funny line from Etrigan when Zee changes her look..."No backwards spells? No fish-net hose?! I hates it when a tradition goes!!" ;\) too funny
> >
> > Also the Legends of the DCU series that had the Spectre and Hal Jordan in it was great stuff that led into the next ongoing Spectre series.
> >
> I can't agree with you more. I have LOVED this character since I discovered him a few years ago. He is easily my second favorite character in all of the JSA stuff I have read (second only to Alan Scott). As my name implies, I am very interested in all things theological and to have this character whose initial creation centered on him being the incarnation of the wrath of God really piqued my interest. I have sought out as much of his history as I can afford and the only thing I have been really disappointed in thus far was the late 80s run by Moench. That is not a slight to Moench b/c I have read many of his things that have been quite good but the way he handled the Spectre, and especially Corrigan, just seemed to be a compete farce of the character. Just the fact that Madame Xanadu was able to enthrall the Spectre with her femininity and the fact that he seemed to be "one of the guys" so much of the time really seemed to weaken him for me. This coupled with the portrayal of Corrigan just seemed to be off to me. I've read this run twice trying to find good points and I did enjoy the first few issues to some degree but overall it just didn't seem like the Spectre to me. (I also felt that it kind of layed the groundwork for the way the Spectre seemed to be taken in by Eclipso during Infinite Crisis which again seemed to reduce him to the lowest common denominator of a male stereotype being led around by his libido.) I guess I am just a fan of the Spectre as this supernatural being who is beyond those things especially when he is not tethered to a human host. Now that I have rambled enough, I agree that Hal's Spectre was a good twist and I am even finding elements of Crispus Allen's Spectre to like but I will always love Corrigan the most and nobody has portrayed Corrigan as well as Ostrander. The Fleischer stuff in Adventure comics was groundbreaking and great but I just fell in love with the combination of Ostrander's writing and thematic stories and Mandrake's artwork. I hope I haven't gone on too much but I just had to share this with a fellow Spectre fan since I seem to find so few that even really know who he is.
>
> Looking forward to your Ray comments,
>
> The Rev


Hey all. For what this is worth I have only read a handful of Doug Moench's run and I can not make too deep of a comment about it other than when I first read it was I taken back by the Spectre's power (or lack of it) since the last time I saw him in a comic was him (the Spectre) fighting the Anti monitor and displaying levels of cosmic proportion. (such as trying to preserve the multiverse)

That said I hear you that the Spectre should be (ideally) a force that is not human without human wants and needs, but I also feel that most people probably could not write a character like that and even if they could the series might be pretty finite. I think the reason they attatch him to a human host is so they can hightlight the differences between him and humanity. Thats my take. As always good reading to you.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Windows XP
Talezite




> > Thanks for your thoughts on Ted. I have never really payed a whole lot of attention to him besides as a secondary character. He had some great moments in the early issues of Simone's Birds of Prey run and the first JSA series from the early '90s but I have not read the Batman series and I had not given him a lot of attention elsewhere. I will have to go back and check some of these out.
> >
> > > The Spectre: I have so many good things to say about this character but I will focus on the John Ostlander/Mandrake series. It was the perfect synthesis of story telling and art.....the pencils of Mandrake were very loose and ethereal when dealing with supernatural happenings. Even the use of a a then tired glow in dark covers actually fit this series. The first issue had one and the Halloween issue (naturally). The attempt to really develop the Jim Corrigan character was impressive and there was no doubt left in the readers mind that the Spectre was not just Corrigan's ghost or even an exaggerated version of his own personality but a completly seperate character (ie: the Wrath of God or the Presence if you like) that Jim was somtimes at odds with. I liked the early issues alot with use of Jim Corrigan's father , the debate on morality, the Spectre's version of Justice (as well as Jims), his friend Amy who was dying of cancer, all of that drama and pathos but done well with some solid philosophical ideas behind it. Also the comsology of the Spectre and how there were other hosts of the Wrath. That was kinda cool. It was rarely talked about before as I remember. In the zero issue in his encounter with Beltane when The Spectre says "You have misjudged my mission Beltane. My purpose is not to purge evil but to confront it, comprehend it, and punish it!" "And whatever your intentions, you are guilty of evil Beltane!" "And on this plane of exsistence there is no escape!" "I call upon the spirits of the Dead those who were slain by you over the centuries. Ask them for mercy." To me those lines break down the Spectre in who he is character wise. There is alot more to that story and I highly reccomend the zero issue and the whole Spectre series. I remember the first isue was in 92 but I can't recall off the top of my head when it ended. I think the series also showed some of the limts of the Spectre's powers and his realtionship with the angels of DCU particually Michael. I think his series was cancelled before he met Zauriel and that would have been cool to see for sure! I mainly remember the first 36 issues or so off the top of my head.
> > >
> > > More Spectre highpoints: Any cover by Charles Vess, or Timothy Truman, the use of his old enemies like Azmodus,etc or other demonic bad guys,the use of mystic favorites like Etrigan, Phantom Stranger, Zantanna, Dr Fate etc....a partically funny line from Etrigan when Zee changes her look..."No backwards spells? No fish-net hose?! I hates it when a tradition goes!!" ;\) too funny
> > >
> > > Also the Legends of the DCU series that had the Spectre and Hal Jordan in it was great stuff that led into the next ongoing Spectre series.
> > >
> > I can't agree with you more. I have LOVED this character since I discovered him a few years ago. He is easily my second favorite character in all of the JSA stuff I have read (second only to Alan Scott). As my name implies, I am very interested in all things theological and to have this character whose initial creation centered on him being the incarnation of the wrath of God really piqued my interest. I have sought out as much of his history as I can afford and the only thing I have been really disappointed in thus far was the late 80s run by Moench. That is not a slight to Moench b/c I have read many of his things that have been quite good but the way he handled the Spectre, and especially Corrigan, just seemed to be a compete farce of the character. Just the fact that Madame Xanadu was able to enthrall the Spectre with her femininity and the fact that he seemed to be "one of the guys" so much of the time really seemed to weaken him for me. This coupled with the portrayal of Corrigan just seemed to be off to me. I've read this run twice trying to find good points and I did enjoy the first few issues to some degree but overall it just didn't seem like the Spectre to me. (I also felt that it kind of layed the groundwork for the way the Spectre seemed to be taken in by Eclipso during Infinite Crisis which again seemed to reduce him to the lowest common denominator of a male stereotype being led around by his libido.) I guess I am just a fan of the Spectre as this supernatural being who is beyond those things especially when he is not tethered to a human host. Now that I have rambled enough, I agree that Hal's Spectre was a good twist and I am even finding elements of Crispus Allen's Spectre to like but I will always love Corrigan the most and nobody has portrayed Corrigan as well as Ostrander. The Fleischer stuff in Adventure comics was groundbreaking and great but I just fell in love with the combination of Ostrander's writing and thematic stories and Mandrake's artwork. I hope I haven't gone on too much but I just had to share this with a fellow Spectre fan since I seem to find so few that even really know who he is.
> >
> > Looking forward to your Ray comments,
> >
> > The Rev
>
>
> Hey all. For what this is worth I have only read a handful of Doug Moench's run and I can not make too deep of a comment about it other than when I first read it was I taken back by the Spectre's power (or lack of it) since the last time I saw him in a comic was him (the Spectre) fighting the Anti monitor and displaying levels of cosmic proportion. (such as trying to preserve the multiverse)
>
> That said I hear you that the Spectre should be (ideally) a force that is not human without human wants and needs, but I also feel that most people probably could not write a character like that and even if they could the series might be pretty finite. I think the reason they attatch him to a human host is so they can hightlight the differences between him and humanity. Thats my take. As always good reading to you.



Hello all again. Onto to part 3 and the ideas and talk of the character in the Ray (Ray Terril) To me Ray was an interesting character in that he had to be raised in an eviroment without light. He was lied to and told he was "sensitive/allergic" to light and it turned out in truth that he was the son of the previous Ray.(golden age) Its a built in legacy type origin but still good in the way it was handled. The limited series was my first introduction to the character and the pacing and dialouge is well crafted in that when the Ray speaks he generates alot of empathy for his situation. His relationship with this father is also very interesting in that the Ray learns he was really raised by his uncle Thomas after his Dad supposedly "died". To me the Ray had to deal with two pretty hard truths (and lies) to control his powers and grow into his role of being a hero. Which of course is not an easy mantle to shoulder........Psycologically I think it shows how much will he had to be raised the way he did (with no light) and that there was an actual reason why (in that at very young age he could never control that level power)and the whole idea of balance put forth in that series. With great power comes a great price to paid...in the Ray's case that was his childhood. The unlimted series I read probably about 3/4 of it and from I what remember it was well constructed. Picking up on elements from the limted series it expanded on the Ray's light based abilities showed a potential dark future involving him and they tried to give him his own villians rather than recycle old villians from other comics. However I think Doctor Polaris was used at some point which is fine considering his level of power he makes a good foil for the Ray.I do remember at some point the Ray being in the JLA after Doomsday killed Superman (Kal-el) and respect given to his level of power. I think he even dated Black Canary but I could be wrong there. Then he went over to JLA taskforce and I don't have alot of issues there but I know he was part of the various teams The Martian Manhunter recruited. He also was in the Worlds at war event to stop the Imperiex and the little he was seen there, it was at least implied that he had some level of ability or else he would not be part of the JSA reserve forces. To me any character with a power with control over a fundemental force (ie: Gravity, Light, Sound, Magnetisim, etc) has to be written well or else it can become stale and even too silly (even for comics) which ideally should be playgrounds for the imagination. I heard he showed up in the new Freedom Fighter series but I only read one issue of that one and there was another Ray in it who did not seem to be Ray Terril. On a purly visial note I think the Ray (Ray Terril's) costume looks great and the yellow and black look complement the idea of him both being able to absorb and project light. In my opinion its definately worth it to try to find the limited series and the unlimted series as those issues still hold up to comics now. (imo) I have to wonder if Dc ever made a trade of the Ray and would be curious to see if anyone knows??


as always good reading to you all





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The Rev




I think he even dated Black Canary but I could be wrong there.

I am afraid that you are absolutely right. It was recorded in a few issues of the Ray and in an issue or two of Canary's short lived book. It seemed to be a bad idea all the way around.

I heard he showed up in the new Freedom Fighter series but I only read one issue of that one and there was another Ray in it who did not seem to be Ray Terril.

This series was one that was worth the wait. [Spoilers from here on] The Ray at the beginning of the series wound up being a traiter and Ray Terrill came in to save the day at the end. Therefore, in the second limited series (currently on issue 4 of 8) he is the Ray.

I have to wonder if Dc ever made a trade of the Ray and would be curious to see if anyone knows??

There was a trade published of the 6 issue miniseries by Harris and Quesada but I don't know if they ever published any of the regular series in a trade. I am pretty sure that any Ray trades that were published are out of pring at this point though.

The Rev
>



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Talezite




> I think he even dated Black Canary but I could be wrong there.
>
> I am afraid that you are absolutely right. It was recorded in a few issues of the Ray and in an issue or two of Canary's short lived book. It seemed to be a bad idea all the way around.
>
> I heard he showed up in the new Freedom Fighter series but I only read one issue of that one and there was another Ray in it who did not seem to be Ray Terril.
>
> This series was one that was worth the wait. [Spoilers from here on] The Ray at the beginning of the series wound up being a traiter and Ray Terrill came in to save the day at the end. Therefore, in the second limited series (currently on issue 4 of 8) he is the Ray.
>
> I have to wonder if Dc ever made a trade of the Ray and would be curious to see if anyone knows??
>
> There was a trade published of the 6 issue miniseries by Harris and Quesada but I don't know if they ever published any of the regular series in a trade. I am pretty sure that any Ray trades that were published are out of pring at this point though.
>
> The Rev
> >
> Thx for the info. Its appriecated. I definately want to pick up both of the new Freedom Fighter limited series and am looking forward to that. A quick question does the new Phantom Lady have a connection to the Starman legacy? Also would you like to see any of the new Freedoom fighters in the JSA??? As always good reading to you all.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Windows XP
The Rev




> > Thx for the info. Its appriecated. I definately want to pick up both of the new Freedom Fighter limited series and am looking forward to that. A quick question does the new Phantom Lady have a connection to the Starman legacy? Also would you like to see any of the new Freedoom fighters in the JSA??? As always good reading to you all.

Phanton Lady's name is Stormy Knight and I think I read at one point that there was a relation to Jack and Ted but as yet they have not developed it. She's been kind of an odd character thus far, especially in the second series, but the book itself has been really surprising.

I would love to see several of these characters in the JSA. I have been really taken with this incarnation of Uncle Sam and the new Miss America. I'm also very curious about the new Black Condor with his ties to Native American lore. I would have to know a lot more about the rest to say that they deserve a spot on the JSA but then again, my understanding of this new team is that they are more like the All Star Squadron than the JSA and if that is the case, pretty much all legacy characters are part of the team whether they show up regularly or not. I guess we'll have to see what Johns does with the group as he develops his stories.

Thanks again for a great conversation.

The Rev


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Talezite




> > > Thx for the info. Its appriecated. I definately want to pick up both of the new Freedom Fighter limited series and am looking forward to that. A quick question does the new Phantom Lady have a connection to the Starman legacy? Also would you like to see any of the new Freedoom fighters in the JSA??? As always good reading to you all.
>
> Phanton Lady's name is Stormy Knight and I think I read at one point that there was a relation to Jack and Ted but as yet they have not developed it. She's been kind of an odd character thus far, especially in the second series, but the book itself has been really surprising.
>
> I would love to see several of these characters in the JSA. I have been really taken with this incarnation of Uncle Sam and the new Miss America. I'm also very curious about the new Black Condor with his ties to Native American lore. I would have to know a lot more about the rest to say that they deserve a spot on the JSA but then again, my understanding of this new team is that they are more like the All Star Squadron than the JSA and if that is the case, pretty much all legacy characters are part of the team whether they show up regularly or not. I guess we'll have to see what Johns does with the group as he develops his stories.
>
> Thanks again for a great conversation.
>
> The Rev


You are welcome for the great comics related conversation. Its what these boards were made to do. ;\) Its nice to be able to shoot out differant opinions and such and get other takes on characters one has been reading for so long lol (maybe too long) ...have a good one.




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