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Tiger Shark




As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?

I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.

So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.

This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.

I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.

...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.


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Dr. Shallot




I've long been a proponent of a "crisis" like event for Marvel. Not a complete reset but more of a housecleaning in which characters can get a fresh start but not lose the bulk of their continuity. I agree, HOM was a golden opportunity and Marvel blew it. If Wanda's character was going to be besmirched the way it was at least something positive should have come out of it. NA wasn't it.

I simply can't believe Marvel would have made the effort to establish a new status quo with CW only to push a reset button and have everyone start at the beginning again. Unless this only affects Spidey and Cap?

As a longtime Spidey fan I'm aware of the baggage Peter carries around and I'd certainly like to see some of it jettisoned. Yet I'd rather have an EIC who doesn't believe that "event, event, event" is what reinvigorates a character, but rather give a talented team the time and creative freedom to pull him/her out of any slump.

I'd also put Peter at around the late twenties, and that's an age I can accept for the character. Surely they will have to be careful on how they age him in the future, I certainly don't want to see him having Doc Connors check his prostate any time soon.

What's the point of Ultimate Spider-man if Marvel was planning this event? I have my doubts about the validity of these claims.





> As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
>
> I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
>
> So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
>
> This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
>
> ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.




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Spiffy




Except I'm not sure I believe theis Vanko any further than I can throw him.

Of course, Marvel is nothing if not predictable. And to do what he's saying would, indeed, be predicable.

In the extreme slim possibility its true, I'd say that they'd have to fold and abandon the Ultimate line. Since it sells so well for them, I don't see this happening.

Also, the mechanics of it would be nightmarish even for "comics". I mean this isn't talking about CHANGING something from when Peter was a teen and rewrapping history, its talking about putting him back to his teens and LEAVING him there while the rest of the MU marches on. Except for Cap, who's left in the 1940s. Doesn't wash. If Marvel wanted a 1940s Cap series, they could do so in the current continuity simply by making it all a flashback. That's the detail which tripped Vanko up. I mean why have Parker as a teen in 2007, if Cap is busy being a super-soldier in 1942? Why link these events? You wouldn't.

I call "bullshit".

> I've long been a proponent of a "crisis" like event for Marvel. Not a complete reset but more of a housecleaning in which characters can get a fresh start but not lose the bulk of their continuity. I agree, HOM was a golden opportunity and Marvel blew it. If Wanda's character was going to be besmirched the way it was at least something positive should have come out of it. NA wasn't it.
>
> I simply can't believe Marvel would have made the effort to establish a new status quo with CW only to push a reset button and have everyone start at the beginning again. Unless this only affects Spidey and Cap?
>
> As a longtime Spidey fan I'm aware of the baggage Peter carries around and I'd certainly like to see some of it jettisoned. Yet I'd rather have an EIC who doesn't believe that "event, event, event" is what reinvigorates a character, but rather give a talented team the time and creative freedom to pull him/her out of any slump.
>
> I'd also put Peter at around the late twenties, and that's an age I can accept for the character. Surely they will have to be careful on how they age him in the future, I certainly don't want to see him having Doc Connors check his prostate any time soon.
>
> What's the point of Ultimate Spider-man if Marvel was planning this event? I have my doubts about the validity of these claims.
>
>
>
>
>
> > As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
> >
> > I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
> >
> > So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
> >
> > This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
> >
> > ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.
>
>


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CyberCoyote




Saving Auntie May \:\)

So that's 'One More Day', hunh? And Cap in WWII? Could he be seen in the now then or are we gonna be subjected to WWII stories I wonder.

I don't mind Pete being a Teen again, it'd save his identity, restore the Fun in his book, and clean up the MJ marriage JQ hates so much.


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Tiger Shark




CW has come and gone, and I can't see what hope any villain or villain group has against 50s states, each with its own super hero team, especially when the, say, Montana and North Dakota teams may fly over to help the South Dakota team against the Mandrill, Nekra, and the Black Talon. And that sort of aid becomes yawningly routine throughout the MU.

CW has come and gone, and left a lot of hero-team building to do, but once that's done, who will be able to stand against SHIELD, the Initiative, etc?

Where is there for the drama and the action in the MU to go?

There's only so many Doctor Dooms and Red Skulls to go around; Kang is 'dead,' the Mandarin is dead, Annihilus is dead, Magento is dead (or not dead), Loki is dead, the Leader we haven't seen in some time....and Galactus and/or the Celestials can't drop down from the sky every other day to provide the heroes with a reason for being.

And let's face it: even if the Mandarin, Mr. Sinister, Doctor Doom, and the Leader teamed up for a massive attack, what could they possibly do that 500 or more heroes couldn't stop or control in some way?

So it may be that now that CW has boosted sales, it's on to the next Big Event, whether it makes sense, is any good, or not. CW has boxed writers into a tight corner.

And retooling SM in such a manner would bring in huge sales and media coverage...and after the Death of Cap, I'm sure Marvel Brass and stockholders are clamoring for 'more of that, more of that.'

I can't see the point of sending Cap back to the 40s, since that would keep him out of the MU Proper in the present, but they may have some justification for doing so, rational or not.




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Grayson





> I can't see the point of sending Cap back to the 40s, since that would keep him out of the MU Proper in the present, but they may have some justification for doing so, rational or not.
>
>

To show America as heroes in a war, which would be, you know, the opposite of current reality?

Grayson


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Tiger Shark




...and Vanko's news may be all bunk indeed.

But Marvel has had a few chances to fix things and they've either wasted those opportunities or made things worse (1,000,000 + boring ex-mutants, for example).

DC's last big event was a lot of fun but confusing as hell, and I don't know that it really made things clearer in the DC U.

I think Marvel needs to sit down, make a list of things they want to fix via such an event, and then work it all out carefully in terms of how they want to do it and how they want to the result to appear at the end. This, I think, they clearly didn't do with HOM and its aftermath.

Maybe Wanda will burp (or worse), maybe Nightmare or Eternity will have a fit of explosive vomiting, who knows.




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Tiger Shark




>
> > I can't see the point of sending Cap back to the 40s, since that would keep him out of the MU Proper in the present, but they may have some justification for doing so, rational or not.
> >
> >
>
> To show America as heroes in a war, which would be, you know, the opposite of current reality?
>
> Grayson


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Dan




> >
> > > I can't see the point of sending Cap back to the 40s, since that would keep him out of the MU Proper in the present, but they may have some justification for doing so, rational or not.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > To show America as heroes in a war, which would be, you know, the opposite of current reality?
> >
> > Grayson


heres how it all could be fixed....go out and kill Wanda, and as it turns out the world is reverted back to before she made her first appearance...so Spidey is a teen, x-men only have the originally team (looks like Jean Grey cheated death again) the orginal Avengers are still together (Cap may or may not be in a block of ice still)......sure many of our favorites are not on the amap yet, but that too is an easy fix


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Ed Love




> ...and Vanko's news may be all bunk indeed.
>
> But Marvel has had a few chances to fix things and they've either wasted those opportunities or made things worse (1,000,000 + boring ex-mutants, for example).
>
> DC's last big event was a lot of fun but confusing as hell, and I don't know that it really made things clearer in the DC U.
>
> I think Marvel needs to sit down, make a list of things they want to fix via such an event, and then work it all out carefully in terms of how they want to do it and how they want to the result to appear at the end. This, I think, they clearly didn't do with HOM and its aftermath.

One of the big problems with the cosmic reset is your writers are all fans of different stuff and will immediately start bringing back all the things you think should stay gone. Instead of forging new ground, once groundbreaking stories will be regurgitated again with a lot less of the magic. Look at the Ultimates. A chance to have a heroic Hank Pym that's not defined by the wife-beating, traitor to Avengers and yet they wasted no time in making the character actually more of a creep.

Why expect things to be better than they are now unless they rid themselves of the creators and management that directed them to this spot over the last couple of years that gave us New Avengers, Scarlet Witch going bad, heroes turning on each other, Peter Parker unmasking, Captain America dead, Bucky and Captain Marvel not dead, etc?
>
>

Golden-age hero and villain encyclopedia: www.geocities.com/cash_gorman

http://hero-goggles.blogspot.com/


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me




>
> > I can't see the point of sending Cap back to the 40s, since that would keep him out of the MU Proper in the present, but they may have some justification for doing so, rational or not.
> >
> >
>
> To show America as heroes in a war, which would be, you know, the opposite of current reality?
>
> Grayson


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Tiger Shark




> > ...and Vanko's news may be all bunk indeed.
> >
> > But Marvel has had a few chances to fix things and they've either wasted those opportunities or made things worse (1,000,000 + boring ex-mutants, for example).
> >
> > DC's last big event was a lot of fun but confusing as hell, and I don't know that it really made things clearer in the DC U.
> >
> > I think Marvel needs to sit down, make a list of things they want to fix via such an event, and then work it all out carefully in terms of how they want to do it and how they want to the result to appear at the end. This, I think, they clearly didn't do with HOM and its aftermath.
>
> One of the big problems with the cosmic reset is your writers are all fans of different stuff and will immediately start bringing back all the things you think should stay gone. Instead of forging new ground, once groundbreaking stories will be regurgitated again with a lot less of the magic. Look at the Ultimates. A chance to have a heroic Hank Pym that's not defined by the wife-beating, traitor to Avengers and yet they wasted no time in making the character actually more of a creep.
>
> Why expect things to be better than they are now unless they rid themselves of the creators and management that directed them to this spot over the last couple of years that gave us New Avengers, Scarlet Witch going bad, heroes turning on each other, Peter Parker unmasking, Captain America dead, Bucky and Captain Marvel not dead, etc?
> >
> >
>
> Golden-age hero and villain encyclopedia: www.geocities.com/cash_gorman
>
> http://hero-goggles.blogspot.com/


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Tiger Shark




...but that means we'd really, really, really be going back...like, to the 30s or 40s. The whole MU Proper would have to be completely reborn.

And as Ed points out above, why trust JQ, Bendis, Ellis, and Millar to fix it like that or any other way?

I don't trust any of them creatively. Not one bit.


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Dr. Shallot





>
> One of the big problems with the cosmic reset is your writers are all fans of different stuff and will immediately start bringing back all the things you think should stay gone. Instead of forging new ground, once groundbreaking stories will be regurgitated again with a lot less of the magic. Look at the Ultimates. A chance to have a heroic Hank Pym that's not defined by the wife-beating, traitor to Avengers and yet they wasted no time in making the character actually more of a creep.

We saw this at DC. It wasn't long before they had to try to "fix" all the discrepancies being created by having another "reset" with Zero hour. That is why, as I mentioned in my original reply, that Marvel would have to find a way to make what has happened before "count". This would prevent regurgitations of past storylines. Of course it would require a strict policy from the top not to break the rules, so to speak. I don't see that happening with Joe Q at the helm. If anything, the floodgates would be open for writers like Bendis to say "let me do that classic story MY way!".

That is why although I'd like to see some sort of housecleaning(not so much a reset), I don't think it's going to happen.
>
> Why expect things to be better than they are now unless they rid themselves of the creators and management that directed them to this spot over the last couple of years that gave us New Avengers, Scarlet Witch going bad, heroes turning on each other, Peter Parker unmasking, Captain America dead, Bucky and Captain Marvel not dead, etc?


> >
> >
>
> Golden-age hero and villain encyclopedia: www.geocities.com/cash_gorman
>
> http://hero-goggles.blogspot.com/




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BaldurMight




> As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
>
he's not even really a teenager in those either for that matter, he's well into college. in light of ultimate spiderman the whole thing strikes me as completely and utterly pointless, unless it is a "college years" spiderman, but even then I think its a horrible idea just slightly less horrible.
> I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
>
yeah he's near 30 in my mind, I actually like him as a school teacher.
> So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
>
any for instances? i don't disagree just want to hear what you think. i think that the neglect of spiderman's supporting cast (flash, betty, etc) has been lamentable. of course baggage comes with the territory when you have 3 or 4 comics focusing on a character (same thing with batman and superman)
> This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
>
i don't know, like you mention with the brubaker example im not sure how much of this stuff needs a "cosmic reset" to fix it, just better writing.
> I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
>
i think it will be torn apart at some point, and im interested to see the meltdown.
> ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.
YES! biggest problem these days


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Jokerisdaking




> > As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
> >
> he's not even really a teenager in those either for that matter, he's well into college. in light of ultimate spiderman the whole thing strikes me as completely and utterly pointless, unless it is a "college years" spiderman, but even then I think its a horrible idea just slightly less horrible.
> > I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
> >
> yeah he's near 30 in my mind, I actually like him as a school teacher.
> > So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
> >
> any for instances? i don't disagree just want to hear what you think. i think that the neglect of spiderman's supporting cast (flash, betty, etc) has been lamentable. of course baggage comes with the territory when you have 3 or 4 comics focusing on a character (same thing with batman and superman)
> > This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
> >
> i don't know, like you mention with the brubaker example im not sure how much of this stuff needs a "cosmic reset" to fix it, just better writing.
> > I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
> >
> i think it will be torn apart at some point, and im interested to see the meltdown.
> > ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.
> YES! biggest problem these days


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Tiger Shark




~


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BaldurMight




> ~


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Tiger Shark




...but what are you going to do with half of Marvel's current stable of writers, especially JQ's posse and favorites, who seem committed to making the MU a dusty, uniformly dark, depressing, crude, and unimaginative place?

Like Omar says below, who needs super heroes for what are essentially noir-ish police dramas? Or 'detective' tales?

Marvel needs its writers to be good, solid, creative, dynamic, and imaginative writers across the board, the way they were in the 80s. Period. Not the 'Me and my career first, the characters second, the titles, third" type of writer prevalent everywhere in the industry today.

I agree also about Flash, Betty, J. Jonah, Robbie, and the like. Since the early 90s, SM's books simply haven't felt like SM books to me. Some would call that progress, I just call it stale, impersonal, and lifeless.

Like IM, Spider Man needs to be brought back to basics: no Capt. Universe powers, no 'Back in Black,' no 'The Other,' no special CW costumes with tenacles, no Clone Sagas, No 'I'm A Perfect Unlikable Idiot Under Bendis' stuff.

He's a 'personal hero,' if I may, and the book should feel somewhat intimate and personal. He shouldn't be grossly over-exposed the way he has been. Less is More.

And this goes for his rogue's gallery too. They've largely lost their charm, just like Peter, just like the books. The truth is that they cane be viable and dangerous, and somewhat charming too. Kraven, Electro, and the Vulture were charming back in the day, each in his own way, and so was the Rhino. That doesn't mean we can see Venom anymore, or any new villains. We should.

Especially with the 50-state thing going--which I don't for a minute think Marvel will be able to control creatively under this administration--we especially need criminals who are viable, powerful, and dangerous. Leagues and leagues of them, scores, from Amphibius all the way up to Galactus.

And I'd like to see them become the unofficial 'guest stars' in the books again, not incidental background characters who waltz in for 3 panels, get smacked down, and that's it.

Like many, I remember the day when Maelstrom, the Death Stalker, the Ani-Men, the Melter, the Vanisher, Centurion, Hela, FireBrand, MODOK, Blaastar, Llyra, the Leader, the Sleeper robots, the Jester, the Man-Bull, Ymir, Mr. Kline, and a host of others were the REAL reason I picked up the latest Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, or Doctor Strange, and loved every minute of it.

What every happened to the villain 'master plan' or 'mad scheme'?

Peace.


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AndrewMTC




There are a few major problems I have with this theory's validity...

> > As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
> >
> he's not even really a teenager in those either for that matter, he's well into college. in light of ultimate spiderman the whole thing strikes me as completely and utterly pointless, unless it is a "college years" spiderman, but even then I think its a horrible idea just slightly less horrible.

This is the first thing I thought. How is putting Peter in high school any kind of synergy? He graduated halfway through the FIRST movie. AND we have Ultimate Spider-Man for that...

...which brings me to my next point. How is folding Ultimate and Marvel Universes into one supposed to make Marvel more money? 616 Spidey is popular enough to have a whole gaggle of books going concurrently (FNSM, SSM, ASM, SMFamily, New Avengers, plus guests and minis). Ultimate is also popular. I don't think anyone would say that two entirely different audiences buy each Universe of Spidey books (I know I buy both). How does combining them into one thing (other concurrent continuities being SMLovesMJ and Spider-Girl/MC2) do anything but limit the need for additional books and buyers' comfort that each offers some kind of significant variation. Even 3 books in one universe is pushing the envelope - but that means 616 IS popular enough to support them! How many books does Ultimae Spider-Man support? Why give readers one less reason to buy a book by making it redundant or cancelling it all together? Obviously every one of these books makes its money back, so what good does it do to simply eliminate (which is basically what they are doing) the "Ultimate" alternative?

Also, on the subject of Cap, past and war-stories have not been as popular as mainstream superhero comics in decades. Why would Marvel take that giant risk? It's not like a time-lost superhero is a new. exciting, or hard-to-fix thing, it happens all the time and is reversed just as often. That just sounds too stupid, business-wise, to be true. Or at least too stupid to be profitable. Any way they bring back Cap will make a splash, thanks to the hoopla over his death. It would make more sense to bring him back in a money-grubbing, MU-affecting event than in the middle of a historic war that your average comic reader doesn't care about reading.



Basically, I don't buy it.

If Vanko's not lying, my money's on his "source" fibbing. That's just how I call it though.

> > I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
> >
> yeah he's near 30 in my mind, I actually like him as a school teacher.
> > So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
> >
> any for instances? i don't disagree just want to hear what you think. i think that the neglect of spiderman's supporting cast (flash, betty, etc) has been lamentable. of course baggage comes with the territory when you have 3 or 4 comics focusing on a character (same thing with batman and superman)
> > This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
> >
> i don't know, like you mention with the brubaker example im not sure how much of this stuff needs a "cosmic reset" to fix it, just better writing.
> > I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
> >
> i think it will be torn apart at some point, and im interested to see the meltdown.
> > ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.
> YES! biggest problem these days

Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!



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Blargh




The writers who define Pym as a wife beater in 616 are either horrible on continuity (it happened once when he was at a breaking point and every bad thing in the world was happening to him), whereas in Ultimate he is firmly established as an abuser, hitting Jan multiple times since they've been dating. The writers for 616 has LOL WIFE BEATER ANT RIDER are crappy writers or ignoring the other 40 years of Hank Pym in Avengers/Avengers related titles. I mean, if hitting your wife once defines you as a wife beater, then Spider-Man is one too (and he used his super strength on her!) but no one makes him like that because writers either ignore that part of history or focus on everything else.

Honestly, I think Bendis, in his few instances of using Pym, has a good character out of him. His insecurities, particularly his inferiority complex, are shown in the first New Avengers CW issue. Also, the guy who wrote Beyond! did a great job too.


> One of the big problems with the cosmic reset is your writers are all fans of different stuff and will immediately start bringing back all the things you think should stay gone. Instead of forging new ground, once groundbreaking stories will be regurgitated again with a lot less of the magic. Look at the Ultimates. A chance to have a heroic Hank Pym that's not defined by the wife-beating, traitor to Avengers and yet they wasted no time in making the character actually more of a creep.


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Tiger Shark




....he said they were going to 'Ultimatize' the MU Proper 'as much as possible.' Whatever that means.

So that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the Ultimates line by any means. Obviously, why cut your profits in half?

I don't think we should, by the way, be ticking these posts 'spoilers,' siunce by doing so we may only be spreading gossip. But I'm playing it safe until we know whether we should or not.


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Blargh




I mean, let's look at it:

An anonymous poster (and yes, anonymous is not giving your e-mail, and a password to edit your post if need be) comes here and makes an initially vague post, basically saying "Hey guys, stuff is going to happen and I didn't like what I heard." but does mention that the comics and movies should more resemble each other. No source is cited.

He comes back saying something like "Okay fanboy, here's your spoilers" and says Peter is back in high school. Considering that high school isn't in the movies, this makes no sense and would lead to the immiediete cancellation of 616 or Ultimate titles. And then mentions that Cap is back in WWII

Sounds like a horrible move. Us modern folks can't even tell you when the War of 1812 was fought, let alone care about war stories.

Anonymous poster comes to the Internet and makes up complete crap. Seriously, if I make a new screen name and create some weird and elaborate storyline that "a friend" told me , will you all swallow it?


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Blargh




> ....he said they were going to 'Ultimatize' the MU Proper 'as much as possible.' Whatever that means.
>
> So that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the Ultimates line by any means. Obviously, why cut your profits in half?
>
> I don't think we should, by the way, be ticking these posts 'spoilers,' siunce by doing so we may only be spreading gossip. But I'm playing it safe until we know whether we should or not.

It's not a spoiler unless it is an announced event and isn't published yet. This is really just a half step abouve speculation, since Vanko didn't cite a source.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.2 on Windows XP
AndrewMTC




> ....he said they were going to 'Ultimatize' the MU Proper 'as much as possible.' Whatever that means.
>
> So that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the Ultimates line by any means. Obviously, why cut your profits in half?
>
> I don't think we should, by the way, be ticking these posts 'spoilers,' siunce by doing so we may only be spreading gossip. But I'm playing it safe until we know whether we should or not.

Well I realize that, but I barely see a difference between the two. If we have 5 or 6 titles or so (maybe even 7 if you count Mary Jane - isn't that set in high school?) all offering the exact same limited alternative, what is the point in keeping them all going? What will the Ultimate Universe actually have to offer Spider-Man readers if 616 Spidey is similarly reset? And some people responding have said things like, the Ultimate Universe was always going to take over 616 if it proved popular, or some such, so that again is why I am equating "ultimatizing" with "folding the universes into each other." I know there's a difference, but it's a small one to me, personally. 616 will just be an Ultimate U take 2. In some ways, couldn't that mean that Ultimate Spidey might end up with more continuity concerns than 616 Spidey, having a few years' head start? And if high school Pete is so popular, why NOT just have more Ultimate-branded Spidey books? And how does this "ultimatizing" affect something like New Avengers, where Spidey is such a big money draw?

And like I and others have said, going to high school would not even synch up with the movies, so that's no excuse. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. It all adds up to being too far-fetched for me.

[And no, I don't consider these spoilers, but the tag has just been in the titles of posts I'm responding to and I'm not bothering to delete it - why buck the trend?]

Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!



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AndrewMTC




I wouldn't swallow it.



Yes, I agree with the rest of your post \:\)



(see my posts for a couple identical points)

Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!



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Jase




> I wouldn't swallow it.
>
>
>
> Yes, I agree with the rest of your post \:\)
>

As do I. I don't buy this rumor either. If Vanko isn't deliberately spreading misinformation, then I'd wager his 'source' is having more than a little fun w/ him...

>
>
> (see my posts for a couple identical points)
>
> Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!
>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Jase




> > ....he said they were going to 'Ultimatize' the MU Proper 'as much as possible.' Whatever that means.
> >
> > So that doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the Ultimates line by any means. Obviously, why cut your profits in half?
> >
> > I don't think we should, by the way, be ticking these posts 'spoilers,' siunce by doing so we may only be spreading gossip. But I'm playing it safe until we know whether we should or not.
>
> Well I realize that, but I barely see a difference between the two. If we have 5 or 6 titles or so (maybe even 7 if you count Mary Jane - isn't that set in high school?) all offering the exact same limited alternative, what is the point in keeping them all going? What will the Ultimate Universe actually have to offer Spider-Man readers if 616 Spidey is similarly reset? And some people responding have said things like, the Ultimate Universe was always going to take over 616 if it proved popular, or some such, so that again is why I am equating "ultimatizing" with "folding the universes into each other." I know there's a difference, but it's a small one to me, personally. 616 will just be an Ultimate U take 2. In some ways, couldn't that mean that Ultimate Spidey might end up with more continuity concerns than 616 Spidey, having a few years' head start? And if high school Pete is so popular, why NOT just have more Ultimate-branded Spidey books? And how does this "ultimatizing" affect something like New Avengers, where Spidey is such a big money draw?
>
> And like I and others have said, going to high school would not even synch up with the movies, so that's no excuse. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. It all adds up to being too far-fetched for me.
>

Agreed. And as also pointed out below, Avi Arad is cited in relation as to why this is happening, yet Arad left Marvel almost a year ago now to form his own production studio(though he is still producing Marvel films through his studio, yet is presumably no longer in a position to dictate editorial policy to anyone).

http://www.comicboards.com/mub/view.php?rpl=070326160205

> [And no, I don't consider these spoilers, but the tag has just been in the titles of posts I'm responding to and I'm not bothering to delete it - why buck the trend?]
>
> Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!
>


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Omar Karindu




Most polls show that most of the country is not exactly in love with Bush or his conduct of the current armed conflict -- misnamed "war" -- in Iraq.

At any rate, Civil War, as I've endlessly tried to argue, has more to do analogically with gun control than with the War on Terror and so forth. The illegal detention stuff is a jab at Guantanamo, true, but that reflects that reading the story as a direct political analogy for anything produces a muddle that arguably doesn't rise to the level of being an articulate political position -- liberal OR conservative OR other.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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TC




I am sure that at Marvel there are both supporters and dissenters of the Administration and their wars. I am sure that I am not aware of Marvel being firmly a liberal, as opposed to a neo-con, media insttution. To imagine that the company itself is somehow anti-bush is to make yet another groundless assumption.


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Quentin Beck




> As I've said recently, when was the last time any of us thought of Peter Parker as a teen in the MU Proper, despite the SM films?
>
> I haven't thought of him as a teen since the late 60s. To my way of thinking, he's at least 23-24 if not 28-30.
>
Yes, but he's also a Spider-god and does things he would never do.

> So I'm not surprised Marvel is taking him back to his teens (and thus perhaps make him more identifiable to film audiences), and reviving Cap in the process. Spidey's got a lot of baggage that should go, IMO.
>

Cap's dead. Any little shred of credibility Marvel would be lost if they did this.

> This would be an excellent time to 'correct'/tweek a lot (I mean, A LOT) of other things too within the MU too, which they should have taken advantage of at the time of HOM, and didn't. At least Brubaker has fixed Lorna all on his own.
>

You can only correct so much. CW really destroyed the ability to do stuff with some of the characters. I always believed some writer with the right ability could do some cool stuff with Spider-man, not now.

Again, Cap would of been great if he wasn't dead. Iron man would be great if I actually cared about what was going on. Where are all the super villians all of a sudden.


> I wouldn't mind seeing CW go away either, though leaving the 50-state teams with us might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of the NA team (forever!) and changing back IM into a less than uber-impervious 'hero' might not be a bad idea either....this new IM just astinks on every level and is 100% uninteresting, not more so.
>

What IS the point of the 50 state inititave? Where are all these super powered freaks coming from? Cap was unique because his formula was the only one of his own. They took away all the Mutants for this I suppose.

> ...and while they're at it, making their huge cast of villians and criminals viable again, from the Wrecker and Mr. Hyde to Mephisto and Kang, would also be an excellent idea.

Your saying Mr. Hyde isn't dangerous?

You actually have to get it and do the work. This hyped up nonsense isn't going to do anything even it were true.


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