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Author
Tiger Shark




I'm rather surprised at the way some characters are portrayed, and the way a lot of the younger characters are continuously drawn making awkward, geeky, and juvenile expressions. If this is how this book will continue, and I'll give it a few more issues, No Thanks.

There's no reason that younger people have to be portrayed as weird, unsophisticated idiots.

I can't beleive that the Bengal, for instance, needs to be treated like a moron by his 'drill instructor,' a parody straight out of An Officer and A Gentleman, or that, seeing the way the others are being treated in some cases, that Stingray would stand casually by and receive similar orders.

And after what Triathlon went through in outer space with the 3-D Man and the Triune Understanding culprits at the end of Kurt's run, I hardly think he needs to be 'drafted' at this level.

I'm no fan of Slott's writing so far either, but I'm giving this book a few more issues to come around and start treating itself with respect.

But if it's a Generation X knock-off, I'll drop it.

Sad to think that Ultimo battled Iron Man for MUtime years to a stand-still, and here he's giving the Mighty Avengers a run for their money, and then some dinkbat named Armory takes him down in one blast (and puts a hole right through him, a big one), even though Ms. Marvel has just said Ultimo's armor is 'nearly indestructible.'

Is Slott thinking this all through, or just drumming it all up in the tub while collecting a fat paycheck?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Jovian




YUCK

seriously.

this issue just left me with the worst taste in my mouth ever. I will not be picking up anymore of these.

holy shit. I feel like I just read a Starship Troopers bootcamp book.

talk about facists inheriting the earth.


honestly. I think this is one of the worst pieces of shit Ive read in probably 10 years.


just absolutely vile.

I dont know about anyone else. But I have much better things to do then read about children being abused and killed and tortured in the guise of some type of bootcamp.

holy f*ck. what did I just read??


shame on you marvel. I just tore this copy up and threw it in the garbage. I dont even want it in my collection.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
punishment




> I'm rather surprised at the way some characters are portrayed, and the way a lot of the younger characters are continuously drawn making awkward, geeky, and juvenile expressions. If this is how this book will continue, and I'll give it a few more issues, No Thanks.
>
> There's no reason that younger people have to be portrayed as weird, unsophisticated idiots.
>
> I can't beleive that the Bengal, for instance, needs to be treated like a moron by his 'drill instructor,' a parody straight out of An Officer and A Gentleman, or that, seeing the way the others are being treated in some cases, that Stingray would stand casually by and receive similar orders.
>
> And after what Triathlon went through in outer space with the 3-D Man and the Triune Understanding culprits at the end of Kurt's run, I hardly think he needs to be 'drafted' at this level.
>
> I'm no fan of Slott's writing so far either, but I'm giving this book a few more issues to come around and start treating itself with respect.
>
> But if it's a Generation X knock-off, I'll drop it.
>
> Sad to think that Ultimo battled Iron Man for MUtime years to a stand-still, and here he's giving the Mighty Avengers a run for their money, and then some dinkbat named Armory takes him down in one blast (and puts a hole right through him, a big one), even though Ms. Marvel has just said Ultimo's armor is 'nearly indestructible.'
>
> Is Slott thinking this all through, or just drumming it all up in the tub while collecting a fat paycheck?


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
BlakGard




> I'm rather surprised at the way some characters are portrayed, and
> the way a lot of the younger characters are continuously drawn making
> awkward, geeky, and juvenile expressions. If this is how this book
> will continue, and I'll give it a few more issues, No Thanks.
>
> There's no reason that younger people have to be portrayed as weird,
> unsophisticated idiots.
>
> I can't beleive that the Bengal, for instance, needs to be treated
> like a moron by his 'drill instructor,' a parody straight out of An
> Officer and A Gentleman, or that, seeing the way the others are being
> treated in some cases, that Stingray would stand casually by and
> receive similar orders.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what Bengal is doing here. When did he even become a United States citizen? How did he become a US citizen after waging a personal, terrorist war against US soldiers?

And yes, Stingray flat-out doesn't belong. It's pretty insulting that he's here.

> And after what Triathlon went through in outer space with the 3-D Man
> and the Triune Understanding culprits at the end of Kurt's run, I
> hardly think he needs to be 'drafted' at this level.
>
> I'm no fan of Slott's writing so far either, but I'm giving this book
> a few more issues to come around and start treating itself with
> respect.
>
> But if it's a Generation X knock-off, I'll drop it.
>
> Sad to think that Ultimo battled Iron Man for MUtime years to a
> stand-still, and here he's giving the Mighty Avengers a run for their
> money, and then some dinkbat named Armory takes him down in one blast
> (and puts a hole right through him, a big one), even though Ms.
> Marvel has just said Ultimo's armor is 'nearly indestructible.'
>
> Is Slott thinking this all through, or just drumming it all up in the
> tub while collecting a fat paycheck?

I strongly believe the latter.
____________________



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CyberCoyote




I just did a run through and, well, maybe it'll read better than it looks.

Was that MVP in the end that got popped? They call this training? these kids seemed on their own in that sequence. And they are kids, but there's some reputable heroes in there.

I'm a big Slott fan and will give it a fair shake when I sit down and read it, but I'm a little worried..






"I don't think there's such a thing as a hero.
It's a lovely idea and this isn't meant to be cynical,
but I think people are just people who are capable of
very good of very bad things.... "

Mark Millar: Writer of Super Hero comic books


CyberCoyote-=^..^=-
Jovian




to answer your question

yes MVP gets killed

he gets half of his head blown right off

right in front of the youngest girl recruit, Cloud Nine


the whole book was just ridiculous

it literally makes me hate marvel characters that I never really did.

in this case, Pym and Jim Rhodes.




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spiderprince




This series so far is basically trying to prove that the anti-registration folk were right. The government is shown as completely totalitarian. Gyrich (who was never a likeable) person recruits Gauntlet who is the definition of a *&^**ing (&&^ (don't try to figure out what it means). The New Warriors are completely disrespected (at least Justice said something, but Rage was surprisingly quiet) and their name dragged through the mud. Sure I agree that they messed up, but did everyone conveniently forget all the good that they had done?

The purpose of the book is completely defeated as one of the recruits dies on the first day (ironically he was one of the only of the new characters that I even remotely cared for) and then everyone covers it up and acts like nothing happened. Its too out there, and especially considering that these are kids we are talking about, it didn't sit well with me.

This issue just left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't mind Slott, I don't see why everyone is so nuts about him as his Thing was just ok. His GLA was pretty funny but I never liked his She Hulk (Spider-Man/Human Torch was great though). This issue just didn't do it for me. It showed off everything wrong with the registration act, which imo really shouldn't be the point of the story (especially not so soon) and didn't cast any of the characters in a positive light (except for one who got offed before the issue ended). This issue just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'll pick up the next one but if the series continues as is I will drop it.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 on Windows 2000
Jovian




but unlike probably yourself and others

I will not be giving this series a chance.

this book left the worst taste in mouth.

it actually put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day after I read it




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Sandman




> to answer your question
>
> yes MVP gets killed
>
> he gets half of his head blown right off
>
> right in front of the youngest girl recruit, Cloud Nine
>
>
> the whole book was just ridiculous
>
> it literally makes me hate marvel characters that I never really did.
>
> in this case, Pym and Jim Rhodes.
>
Jim Rhodes might be like She-Hulk and perhaps doesn't know what's really going on. Like Spider-Man did, Jim is trusting Tony on knowing what he's doing, but that might change later on.

I really don't like the sound of "winning the arms race". It makes me think that they'll start invading other countries that they find threating because of their superhumans. The Marvel US seems to be heading towards becoming the new Genosha

That kid who got part of his head blown off, Patrick, who's the great grandson of Doctor Abraham Erskine, well what I don't understand is why they wanted him to be a super-hero when the test results showed that he had nothing in his bloodstream unless they expected that he did have the super-soldier serum which might be part of his DNA which makes me wonder if Doctor Abraham Erskine was expecting an attempt to take his life and perhaps gave a variant of the serum to his son or daughter that perhaps stay dormant until his great grandson was born, but I'm very displeased on how the pro-regs are doing things.

As for Armory, the grown ups screwed up when they had Trauma use his powers on a powerful girl and then say that it's "her" fault just like they did in the Civil War. The pro-regs aren't super-heroes anymore if they're going to be this irresponsible. It's pathetic and Pym is back to being the loser super-hero wannabe. I hope at least the Gauntlet is going to have a talk with someone in charge if he's going to train these kids because Armory wasn't like the New Warriors, she was affected by someone else's powers.

The pro-reg Avengers talk about being professionals but screw up like amateurs.



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spiderprince




Eh, it did leave me feeling pretty bad (good thing I had FNSM and Omega Flight to pick up my spirits afterward). I'm just sticking around cause its what I encourage others to instead of judging too harshly. If next issue doesn't deliver though I am out of there.

> but unlike probably yourself and others
>
> I will not be giving this series a chance.
>
> this book left the worst taste in mouth.
>
> it actually put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day after I read it
>
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 on Windows 2000
clayton




But maybe thats just because I AM a teenager. Those kids were pretty much accurate. Remember,these kids are being drafted and rightfully so. These are the kids the Registration Act was drafted for. Theyre incredibly powerful, cocky, and untrained. Armory lost her head in a training excerise and people died. Thats what happens. Too often in comics, every single kid who somehow seems to stumble upon a power accidently is presented as perfect if prehaps untrained. Thats not the case. If the basis of this camp is to weed out the kids unfit to be heroes, they did their job in this issue. Oh, and Justice is a mentor, not a student. And Gyrich has always been like that. He's Gyrich. He was putting Captain America's balls in the grinder about Afirmative Action way back when comics were shiny and new and were never dark.
My only real gripe is that Rage is in with the newbies. I mean, the guy was an Avengers way before Justice. He put in a good word for him with Cap and everything. Oh well, I guess he's mentally a teenager still.


Anyways, I loved it. I'll be sticking around a good long time.

Marvel needs more teen books like this and Runaways and less like the old New Warriors (sorry). Except for Justice. He's alright in my book.


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spiderprince




...but didn't like it. It wasn't even the teens in the book that bothered me as it was the supporting characters. Gauntlet places Armory in a situation for Trauma to influence her, but he has no idea how Trauma's powers work? And he's supposed to be "experienced"? That was just ridiculous. Killing MVP was just pointless and I fail to see how Armory is completely at fault. Sure she lost it, but she is deadly afraid of spiders (not to mention giant spiders), plus she is just a rookie. She shouldn't have been placed in that situation to begin with, at least not without Gauntlet having assessed the situation to begin with. Oh and Gauntlet refering to the New Warriors so casually was just plain old bad taste. They made a mistake in Stamford that caused lives, but they've done a lot of good too. Plus the New Warrior to survive is at least trying to attone for what his role in the tragedy.

It wasn't completely bad though. Glad to see Justice sort of stick up for his teammates. Glad to see that focus is building a superhuman army to police the US, and not invade other countries. The few positives for this book are the only things letting me give this book a second chance.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 on Windows 2000
fan4




> This series so far is basically trying to prove that the anti-registration folk were right. The government is shown as completely totalitarian. Gyrich (who was never a likeable) person recruits Gauntlet who is the definition of a *&^**ing (&&^ (don't try to figure out what it means). The New Warriors are completely disrespected (at least Justice said something, but Rage was surprisingly quiet) and their name dragged through the mud. Sure I agree that they messed up, but did everyone conveniently forget all the good that they had done?
>
> The purpose of the book is completely defeated as one of the recruits dies on the first day (ironically he was one of the only of the new characters that I even remotely cared for) and then everyone covers it up and acts like nothing happened. Its too out there, and especially considering that these are kids we are talking about, it didn't sit well with me.
>
> This issue just left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't mind Slott, I don't see why everyone is so nuts about him as his Thing was just ok. His GLA was pretty funny but I never liked his She Hulk (Spider-Man/Human Torch was great though). This issue just didn't do it for me. It showed off everything wrong with the registration act, which imo really shouldn't be the point of the story (especially not so soon) and didn't cast any of the characters in a positive light (except for one who got offed before the issue ended). This issue just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'll pick up the next one but if the series continues as is I will drop it.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Jovian




> >
> Jim Rhodes might be like She-Hulk and perhaps doesn't know what's really going on. Like Spider-Man did, Jim is trusting Tony on knowing what he's doing, but that might change later on.
>

heh. now this has me wondering. and I cant check, because I destroyed my copy \(lol\) , but was Rhodes there in the control booth when Trauma accidently killed MVP?

and even if he wasnt, he sure had to be in there for them stealing that poor girls powerful device. Which is essentially what they did. It's almost...if you think about it, maybe a setup from the getgo. And that it wasnt an accident. That getting their grubby paws on that extremely powerful device, which they made the point of proving when it brought down Ultron \(\?\) in one shot, was their only motivation.

And when you think about it, how much of a betrayal of trust was that? That girl, with the uber weap, registers and puts her trust in the government. And they completely f*ck her over.

> I really don't like the sound of "winning the arms race". It makes me think that they'll start invading other countries that they find threating because of their superhumans. The Marvel US seems to be heading towards becoming the new Genosha

I's turning into the Ultimate Universe. Which sucks, even though I love the Ultimate Universe , I dont need two.

>
> I'm very displeased on how the pro-regs are doing things.
>

Can we be surprised? We all knew it wasn't a good idea. (But Reed said 'it must be done' because of his Issac Asimov theory, and threw his invaluable faculties behind the shra. Which in my opinion and now getting completely off the topic at hand, but if Reed was not pro reg, the act would have died a slow painful death. Reed was crucial to its success.)

> As for Armory, the grown ups screwed up when they had Trauma use his powers on a powerful girl and then say that it's "her" fault just like they did in the Civil War. The pro-regs aren't super-heroes anymore if they're going to be this irresponsible. It's pathetic and Pym is back to being the loser super-hero wannabe. I hope at least the Gauntlet is going to have a talk with someone in charge if he's going to train these kids because Armory wasn't like the New Warriors, she was affected by someone else's powers.
>

Exactly. The sheer volume of irresponsibility by the government (which I will refer to all pro-regger's as.) is staggering. And they have the audacity to speak to unkindly of the New Warriors, on the same ground they lost their lives no less. Are you kidding me here?

This book was atrocious.


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nightshadow12




I understand your points but I think you are missing some things. Of course it was not completely Armory's fault but they need to blame someone. If the fault was placed on the instructors, how do you think the public or the government would react? People would be outraged. I don't expect Gauntlet will be free of internal blame. But he will probably be punished off record and personally by Stark. I also would like to guess that no one was fully aware of Trauma's powers. I believe the point the of the excerise was to establish each kid's abilities. So are you really that shocked that one of them was stronger than expected and another cracked under pressure? I disagree about MVP being killed pointlessly. He clearly had the most potential of any of them. He set records and showed that he had the stuff to go all the way to the top. Losing him in such a stupid way is tragic and I expect to see changes made because of it. I do agree that Gauntlet's comment about the New Warriors was tasteless but it was supposed to be. Don't forget that a lot of people in the general public place the full blame on them.

I think this has a lot of potential and I feel like it's a new idea. We'll just have to see where it goes.

> ...but didn't like it. It wasn't even the teens in the book that bothered me as it was the supporting characters. Gauntlet places Armory in a situation for Trauma to influence her, but he has no idea how Trauma's powers work? And he's supposed to be "experienced"? That was just ridiculous. Killing MVP was just pointless and I fail to see how Armory is completely at fault. Sure she lost it, but she is deadly afraid of spiders (not to mention giant spiders), plus she is just a rookie. She shouldn't have been placed in that situation to begin with, at least not without Gauntlet having assessed the situation to begin with. Oh and Gauntlet refering to the New Warriors so casually was just plain old bad taste. They made a mistake in Stamford that caused lives, but they've done a lot of good too. Plus the New Warrior to survive is at least trying to attone for what his role in the tragedy.
>
> It wasn't completely bad though. Glad to see Justice sort of stick up for his teammates. Glad to see that focus is building a superhuman army to police the US, and not invade other countries. The few positives for this book are the only things letting me give this book a second chance.


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vanhelsin




I don't know why Geoff Johns had this odd notion to turn Gyrich into this noble and doe eyed government agent in his AVENGERS run. I read that and looked at some of my back issues and was like, WTF?!? Thankfully Fabian had the chance to write Gyrich as he should be during his all too short appearences in NEW THUNDERBOLTS. It's not a shock to see Gyrich do what he did in this issue, it's all in character for the guy who advocated PROJECT: WIDE AWAKE and who helped strip Captain America of his uniform.




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BlakGard




> I understand your points but I think you are missing some things. Of
> course it was not completely Armory's fault but they need to blame
> someone. If the fault was placed on the instructors, how do you think
> the public or the government would react? People would be outraged.

Um... maybe the public and the government should be outraged, and maybe the public should be informed of the unabashed truth. What happened was 100% the fault of the instructors. They're the ones in charge. Of all people, Armory was the least culpable.

> I don't expect Gauntlet will be free of internal blame. But he will
> probably be punished off record and personally by Stark. I also would
> like to guess that no one was fully aware of Trauma's powers. I
> believe the point the of the excerise was to establish each kid's
> abilities. So are you really that shocked that one of them was
> stronger than expected and another cracked under pressure?

Which is why you don't start training them in situations that even remotely deal with life/death. You begin training them alone, with no one else around, testing their abilities and powers, then slowly build up.

Egads... at least no one even died at Xavier's from such stupidity.
____________________



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nightshadow12




> > I understand your points but I think you are missing some things. Of
> > course it was not completely Armory's fault but they need to blame
> > someone. If the fault was placed on the instructors, how do you think
> > the public or the government would react? People would be outraged.
>
> Um... maybe the public and the government should be outraged, and maybe the public should be informed of the unabashed truth. What happened was 100% the fault of the instructors. They're the ones in charge. Of all people, Armory was the least culpable.
>

What would happen then? If the government decided the heroes couldn't train these kids, what do you think they would do? Just let them go live normal lives? Who else is there to train them?

> > I don't expect Gauntlet will be free of internal blame. But he will
> > probably be punished off record and personally by Stark. I also would
> > like to guess that no one was fully aware of Trauma's powers. I
> > believe the point the of the excerise was to establish each kid's
> > abilities. So are you really that shocked that one of them was
> > stronger than expected and another cracked under pressure?
>
> Which is why you don't start training them in situations that even remotely deal with life/death. You begin training them alone, with no one else around, testing their abilities and powers, then slowly build up.
>
> Egads... at least no one even died at Xavier's from such stupidity.

Xavier designed his school and lessons around teaching children. He could find out everything about their powers using his mind. I don't think this is a fair comparison. How many of the heroes have experience teaching children? Xavier spent his life teaching, it was what he did. The only hero I can think of who could possibly teach these kids is Cap unfortunately.
> ____________________
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
clayton




> > I understand your points but I think you are missing some things. Of
> > course it was not completely Armory's fault but they need to blame
> > someone. If the fault was placed on the instructors, how do you think
> > the public or the government would react? People would be outraged.
>
> Um... maybe the public and the government should be outraged, and maybe the public should be informed of the unabashed truth. What happened was 100% the fault of the instructors. They're the ones in charge. Of all people, Armory was the least culpable.
>
I call bullshit on that. If I'm in target practice and I go bonkers and shoot some poor sap in the head, its not the fault of whatever I saw that inadvertantly freaked me out or the instructors for giving me a gun because that was the whole point of the excerise. No one in the room was expecting Armory to freak out to the extent that she did.

> > I don't expect Gauntlet will be free of internal blame. But he will
> > probably be punished off record and personally by Stark. I also would
> > like to guess that no one was fully aware of Trauma's powers. I
> > believe the point the of the excerise was to establish each kid's
> > abilities. So are you really that shocked that one of them was
> > stronger than expected and another cracked under pressure?
>
> Which is why you don't start training them in situations that even remotely deal with life/death. You begin training them alone, with no one else around, testing their abilities and powers, then slowly build up.
>
> Egads... at least no one even died at Xavier's from such stupidity.
> ____________________
>


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Jovian





> I call bullshit on that. If I'm in target practice and I go bonkers and shoot some poor sap in the head, its not the fault of whatever I saw that inadvertantly freaked me out or the instructors for giving me a gun because that was the whole point of the excerise. No one in the room was expecting Armory to freak out to the extent that she did.

>

Oh that's completely ridiculous. They put these raw untrained kids into a major combat simulation together, not knowing anything about their powers and its the kids fault?

Give me a f**cking break. If it was the kids fault, why in the world would the powers that be cover it up?


because they would be shut down and shut down fast, thats why.



and why would they be shut down?



BECAUSE ITS THEIR RESPONIBILITY TO MAKE SURE SHIT LIKE THIS DOESNT HAPPEN.








Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
clayton




>
> > I call bullshit on that. If I'm in target practice and I go bonkers and shoot some poor sap in the head, its not the fault of whatever I saw that inadvertantly freaked me out or the instructors for giving me a gun because that was the whole point of the excerise. No one in the room was expecting Armory to freak out to the extent that she did.
>
> >
>
> Oh that's completely ridiculous. They put these raw untrained kids into a major combat simulation together, not knowing anything about their powers and its the kids fault?
>

Raw and untrained or not, Armory still saw it as a good idea to take down Ultimo singlehandedly. And yes, they had researched her powers and she had claimed that the weapon had a safety.

> Give me a f**cking break. If it was the kids fault, why in the world would the powers that be cover it up?

Because kids screwing up at the cost of the lives of innocents with powers they fell ass backwards into was what spawned all of this. Its bad PR.

>
>
> because they would be shut down and shut down fast, thats why.
>
>
>
> and why would they be shut down?
>
>
>
> BECAUSE ITS THEIR RESPONIBILITY TO MAKE SURE SHIT LIKE THIS DOESNT HAPPEN.
>
>
>

The scandal here isnt that the kid died, but that he died in a stanfordeque manner IN STANFORD.
>

Plus, what did the heroes do after the incident? they took away her powers and kicked her out. Good for them. Thats more responsibility than has been seen in the Marvel Universe in a Long Long time.
>
>


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BlakGard




> > > I call bullshit on that. If I'm in target practice and I go
> > > bonkers and shoot some poor sap in the head, its not the fault of
> > > whatever I saw that inadvertantly freaked me out or the
> > > instructors for giving me a gun because that was the whole point
> > > of the excerise. No one in the room was expecting Armory to freak
> > > out to the extent that she did.

Call bullshit all you want, had this happened in the real world, the people in charge would likely be held criminally negligent. At this point in her training, she shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near target practice, especially against REAL PEOPLE.

> > Oh that's completely ridiculous. They put these raw untrained kids
> > into a major combat simulation together, not knowing anything about
> > their powers and its the kids fault?
>
> Raw and untrained or not, Armory still saw it as a good idea to take
> down Ultimo singlehandedly. And yes, they had researched her powers
> and she had claimed that the weapon had a safety.

Armory should have never ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER EVER been placed in a position where she would come up with the idea to take down anyone, singlehandedly or not. Not at this stage in her training. You don't send raw and untrained people to do things like this.

This was about 100 times worse than the event that sparked the Civil War, even if the death count was lower, because they're supposed to be preventing precisely this sort of thing.

> > Give me a f**cking break. If it was the kids fault, why in the
> > world would the powers that be cover it up?
>
> Because kids screwing up at the cost of the lives of innocents with
> powers they fell ass backwards into was what spawned all of this.
> Its bad PR.

You're aware that PR is an unadulterated evil thing, right? What you're proposing is lying to save face.

> > because they would be shut down and shut down fast, thats why.
> >
> > and why would they be shut down?
> >
> > BECAUSE ITS THEIR RESPONIBILITY TO MAKE SURE SHIT LIKE THIS DOESNT
> > HAPPEN.
>
> The scandal here isnt that the kid died, but that he died in a
> stanfordeque manner IN STANFORD.

Wrong. The scandal here is that the trained people screwed up.

> Plus, what did the heroes do after the incident? they took away her
> powers and kicked her out. Good for them. Thats more responsibility
> than has been seen in the Marvel Universe in a Long Long time.

Nevermind that she did nothing wrong.
____________________



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DRRKing




You took the words right out of my mouth... Since I couldn't afford most of the books this week, I decided to buy this one just because I wanted to see some info on the Initiative... Yet, after they did what they did to the only character I felt a little emotion invested for, it put me in a bad mood that I can't shake off... I'll pick up the next issue though maybe so I can get a bit of closure...


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP
Obstreperous




> I'm rather surprised at the way some characters are portrayed, and the way a lot of the younger characters are continuously drawn making awkward, geeky, and juvenile expressions. If this is how this book will continue, and I'll give it a few more issues, No Thanks.
>
> There's no reason that younger people have to be portrayed as weird, unsophisticated idiots.
>
I'm gonna get a few for issues and see. I like the premise.. but the delivery isn't that good. It definity seems like its aimed at a younger audenice.. if not a very very old school audience. I was hoping it wasn't going to be like She-hulk.. but should have know.
>
> And after what Triathlon went through in outer space with the 3-D Man and the Triune Understanding culprits at the end of Kurt's run, I hardly think he needs to be 'drafted' at this level.
>
you aussume he is a recruit like Cloud 9. But all adult heroes have been drated into the initative. He and the likes of Stingray have probably just been assigned to help with the training. (although even Captain America before he died trained all the time).


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Obstreperous




> This series so far is basically trying to prove that the anti-registration folk were right. The government is shown as completely totalitarian. Gyrich (who was never a likeable) person recruits Gauntlet who is the definition of a *&^**ing (&&^ (don't try to figure out what it means). The New Warriors are completely disrespected (at least Justice said something, but Rage was surprisingly quiet) and their name dragged through the mud. Sure I agree that they messed up, but did everyone conveniently forget all the good that they had done?

How is the governemnt not in anyway like this.. particular when dealing with the armed forces.. which the Initative is. The cover up is very much in tone with how armies behave around the world.

> The purpose of the book is completely defeated as one of the recruits dies on the first day (ironically he was one of the only of the new characters that I even remotely cared for) and then everyone covers it up and acts like nothing happened. Its too out there, and especially considering that these are kids we are talking about, it didn't sit well with me.
you probably need to do a deeper reading of the book. The pursose of the book was not defeated.. the purpose of the Initative was defeated. And examing the good and very much the bad of how something like the Initative would play out is the purpose of the book.. in which so far it has done.


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clayton




> > > > I call bullshit on that. If I'm in target practice and I go
> > > > bonkers and shoot some poor sap in the head, its not the fault of
> > > > whatever I saw that inadvertantly freaked me out or the
> > > > instructors for giving me a gun because that was the whole point
> > > > of the excerise. No one in the room was expecting Armory to freak
> > > > out to the extent that she did.
>
> Call bullshit all you want, had this happened in the real world, the people in charge would likely be held criminally negligent. At this point in her training, she shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near target practice, especially against REAL PEOPLE.
>
> > > Oh that's completely ridiculous. They put these raw untrained kids
> > > into a major combat simulation together, not knowing anything about
> > > their powers and its the kids fault?
> >
> > Raw and untrained or not, Armory still saw it as a good idea to take
> > down Ultimo singlehandedly. And yes, they had researched her powers
> > and she had claimed that the weapon had a safety.
>
> Armory should have never ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER EVER been placed in a position where she would come up with the idea to take down anyone, singlehandedly or not. Not at this stage in her training. You don't send raw and untrained people to do things like this.
>

Nobody sent her to go take down Ultimo. She did that herself because she thought it would be cool as her own special little hero debut.

> This was about 100 times worse than the event that sparked the Civil War, even if the death count was lower, because they're supposed to be preventing precisely this sort of thing.
>
> > > Give me a f**cking break. If it was the kids fault, why in the
> > > world would the powers that be cover it up?
> >
> > Because kids screwing up at the cost of the lives of innocents with
> > powers they fell ass backwards into was what spawned all of this.
> > Its bad PR.
>
> You're aware that PR is an unadulterated evil thing, right? What you're proposing is lying to save face.

In this case, the public is too reactive for them not to cover this up. What is being atempted in Stanford, the training of young superhumans who seem to need it desperately, is a good thing. An accident occurred. When youre dealing with kids who could kill people with their brain in highstress situations (and in the case of Armory, low stress situations) deadly situations can and will occur.


>
> > > because they would be shut down and shut down fast, thats why.
> > >
> > > and why would they be shut down?
> > >
> > > BECAUSE ITS THEIR RESPONIBILITY TO MAKE SURE SHIT LIKE THIS DOESNT
> > > HAPPEN.
> >
> > The scandal here isnt that the kid died, but that he died in a
> > stanfordeque manner IN STANFORD.
>
> Wrong. The scandal here is that the trained people screwed up.
>

People die in basic training all the time. In Israel, they use real ammunition durring training excercises. Shit happens, but the greater good of what the army is trying to accomplish by training these soldiers trumps whatever the public might say if the deaths were heavily publisized. What happened to set off Armory was stupid beyond reason and could have happened anywhere one the base. notice that Trauma was not using his powers ON armory, but using them AROUND armory. Its not a physic image thing. He actually became a spider and was about to go mow down some robots.

> > Plus, what did the heroes do after the incident? they took away her
> > powers and kicked her out. Good for them. Thats more responsibility
> > than has been seen in the Marvel Universe in a Long Long time.
>
> Nevermind that she did nothing wrong.


no, she freaked out and killed a guy with lasers because she couldnt handle seeing a giant spider. She proved herself to be unfit to use the vast and unlimited power she fell assbackwards into.

> ____________________
>


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tenno




Is this series Avengers Initiative just a six issue series?


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CC





> > The purpose of the book is completely defeated as one of the recruits dies on the first day (ironically he was one of the only of the new characters that I even remotely cared for) and then everyone covers it up and acts like nothing happened. Its too out there, and especially considering that these are kids we are talking about, it didn't sit well with me.
> you probably need to do a deeper reading of the book. The pursose of the book was not defeated.. the purpose of the Initative was defeated. And examing the good and very much the bad of how something like the Initative would play out is the purpose of the book.. in which so far it has done.

I agree with both of you. I feel it makes the Initiative itself look terrible in it's concept. I agree it's supposed to show the bad side, but as storytelling goes I guess I would have hoped for SOME positives. To me the whole set up seems wrong, they obviously either don't know what they're doing or they're trying something underhanded and going about it in a rather poor way (if they just wanted her weapon)

It didn't do much for me, and I was really looking forward to the book so I'm a little bummed out. I'll give it one more issue then it'll be off my list.


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spiderprince




> Nobody sent her to go take down Ultimo. She did that herself because she thought it would be cool as her own special little hero debut.

Yup. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

> In this case, the public is too reactive for them not to cover this up. What is being atempted in Stanford, the training of young superhumans who seem to need it desperately, is a good thing. An accident occurred. When youre dealing with kids who could kill people with their brain in highstress situations (and in the case of Armory, low stress situations) deadly situations can and will occur.

But the point of the base is to reduce the chances of that happening, which they completely failed at by placing these kids in such a situation without much forethought. Did Gauntlet even know what Trauma's powers were? Seems like he didn't.

> People die in basic training all the time. In Israel, they use real ammunition durring training excercises. Shit happens, but the greater good of what the army is trying to accomplish by training these soldiers trumps whatever the public might say if the deaths were heavily publisized. What happened to set off Armory was stupid beyond reason and could have happened anywhere one the base. notice that Trauma was not using his powers ON armory, but using them AROUND armory. Its not a physic image thing. He actually became a spider and was about to go mow down some robots.

I understand that, but sorry, I still fail to see how you don't hold Gauntlet responsible even a little. A simple "Hey, this could freak you out" would have worked for me.

> no, she freaked out and killed a guy with lasers because she couldnt handle seeing a giant spider. She proved herself to be unfit to use the vast and unlimited power she fell assbackwards into.

A giant spider that she, as an untrained hero, is deadly afraid of. The reason she's there is to get training to be able to handle stressful sitations, not thrown ass first into a situation like that with any sort of warning.
>
> > ____________________
> >


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Tiger Shark




In the CW Battle Damage book, IM states that Stingray will be receiving training in the camp to learn to be less reliant on his exoskeleton.

Now, I can see Walter getting a little training (even though he's a scientist and presumably can stay technologically current on his own), but getting barked at by his training instructor like a young whelp? No way.

This guy has fended off Attuma, Orka, Llyra, Tiger Shark (free plug), Triton, Namor, and a host of other host of other viable undersea baddies.

And he was doing so when his instructor was still being weened off his baby formula.

Shame on Marvel and IM.

And the Bengal doesn't belong at that level either.


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Attok12




WARNING! People who are sick of my complaints about Slott's writing better turn back. This is going to be brutal. Really brutal. If you continue on, it's your own fault if you don't like what you read. \:\-\)

Here we go....

Your drumming it all up in the tub line is probably correct. It wouldn't surprise me. I'm not sure how a writer can take someone like Ultimo, mention that he's nearly indestructible and then have him taken down with one shot that puts a hole through his "nearly indestructible" armor. Oh, wait, it's Slott. It's just another case of a writer creating a new, dull-as-dishwater character and, in his attempt to make the character a big bad-ass, has the person take out someone bigger and more important than him. This was the case with Grant Morrison and his crappy Fantomex character (when Darkstar was atrociously killed).

And I'm not surprised at the way the Bengel was treated. Slott's history with obscure characters has already been proven to be absolutely terrible at best (see the Big House storyline and his handling of a new Ani-Men for examples). I've heard this book will be featuring lots of obscure heroes and villains, but likely they'll all be used as cannon fodder, background material or in brief, let's-do-something-I-think-is-hilarious-that-I-think-other-people-will-think-the-same-thing cameos.

I didn't buy the issue, but I actually broke down and looked at the book in the store. Good Lord, I'm glad I spent my $2.99 on OMEGA FLIGHT #1 instead. I have heard from Slott, Marvel and people who work at MArvel that AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE is supposed to be vastly different than anything Slott has ever written, that's it's not supposed to be his trademark funny books like SHE-HULK. What a crock. Right off the bat, Slapstick shows up. Strike one. The Bengal scene. Strike two. And other stuff I saw. *gah* Whatever. And judging from the comments I've been seeing across the board, not too many other people liked the issue, either, and they've read the whole thing. Marvel jumped the gun by making this book an ongoing. I guess the readers assumed the book was going to be hot, since Slott was the one writing it, so everyone ordered it. Whoops.

That said, I like the 50-State Initiative idea. I like the Camp Hammond idea. I think, in the hands of an excellent writer, like Ed Brubaker for one, these ideas would swell into something interesting to read. But Dan Slott is not that writer.

End of rant. And I apologize for upsetting anyone who ventured into this thread, ignoring the warning. It's just my opinion. Have a nice day. \:\-\)


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