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spiderprince




I'll say it again, I don't understand why everyone is lumping praising on McDuffie. His JLU was excellent and his first few issues of FF were ok (though better than Waid and JMS imo), but this latest issue just killed everything for me. Duffie again shows his lack of understanding of these characters and it happens in such a way as to completely jar me from the story. Story spoilers below....







The Surfer gets into a fight with the FF and during the battle not only does he somehow manage to hop on Surfer's board that's been known to move many times faster the the speed of light he manages to get Norrin a hold and threatens to break off his arm.

WTF!!!!!!! The board thing was minor, but the arm thing was just ridiculous. Did McDuffie realize how many different ways Surfer could have taken out Panther with the power cosmic? Or that he could have simply phased through? Or that his physiology only looks humanoid? This can't be the same Surfer who got an upgrade in Anihilation and took out two primordial beings recently. Anyway, this detail took me out of the story and the only thing that interests now is the Gravity story. Nothing else really happened this issue except for Gravity named the Protector of the Universe (so predictable but still cool to see). McDuffie writes these characters pretty well, but he's really gonna have to step his game up to keep me interested in this title.

Sorry bout the rant. Did this bother anyone else or am I just overreacting? Thoughts?


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DanoKDath




> I'll say it again, I don't understand why everyone is lumping praising on McDuffie. His JLU was excellent and his first few issues of FF were ok (though better than Waid and JMS imo), but this latest issue just killed everything for me. Duffie again shows his lack of understanding of these characters and it happens in such a way as to completely jar me from the story. Story spoilers below....
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> The Surfer gets into a fight with the FF and during the battle not only does he somehow manage to hop on Surfer's board that's been known to move many times faster the the speed of light he manages to get Norrin a hold and threatens to break off his arm.
>
> WTF!!!!!!! The board thing was minor, but the arm thing was just ridiculous. Did McDuffie realize how many different ways Surfer could have taken out Panther with the power cosmic? Or that he could have simply phased through? Or that his physiology only looks humanoid? This can't be the same Surfer who got an upgrade in Anihilation and took out two primordial beings recently. Anyway, this detail took me out of the story and the only thing that interests now is the Gravity story. Nothing else really happened this issue except for Gravity named the Protector of the Universe (so predictable but still cool to see). McDuffie writes these characters pretty well, but he's really gonna have to step his game up to keep me interested in this title.
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> Sorry bout the rant. Did this bother anyone else or am I just overreacting? Thoughts?

I just dropped the book as part of my non-X Marvel boycott, but it's news like this that makes me glad I did.
Harkens back to the story where Spider-Man beat Firelord.
Even dreaming that BP could challenge SS is utterly moronic.
And here were hopes that McDuffie knew what he was doing...


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Skyclad




> I'll say it again, I don't understand why everyone is lumping praising on McDuffie. His JLU was excellent and his first few issues of FF were ok (though better than Waid and JMS imo), but this latest issue just killed everything for me. Duffie again shows his lack of understanding of these characters and it happens in such a way as to completely jar me from the story. Story spoilers below....
>
>
>
>
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> The Surfer gets into a fight with the FF and during the battle not only does he somehow manage to hop on Surfer's board that's been known to move many times faster the the speed of light he manages to get Norrin a hold and threatens to break off his arm.
>
> WTF!!!!!!! The board thing was minor, but the arm thing was just ridiculous. Did McDuffie realize how many different ways Surfer could have taken out Panther with the power cosmic? Or that he could have simply phased through? Or that his physiology only looks humanoid? This can't be the same Surfer who got an upgrade in Anihilation and took out two primordial beings recently. Anyway, this detail took me out of the story and the only thing that interests now is the Gravity story. Nothing else really happened this issue except for Gravity named the Protector of the Universe (so predictable but still cool to see). McDuffie writes these characters pretty well, but he's really gonna have to step his game up to keep me interested in this title.
>
> Sorry bout the rant. Did this bother anyone else or am I just overreacting? Thoughts?


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Tiger Sharl




I agree that the SS could have done any number of things to take out the Panther at that moment without moving a muscle, but I feel that from the moment he arrived, he was, in the back of his mind, giving his friends and the others a wide swath in terms of his approach to them and the situation; in other words, he was more willing to listen to them and sympathize with them than he let on. So he could have taken out the Panther 1-2-3, but didn't--he knew he was in 0% danger.

And as we saw, he soon came out on their side regarding the issue of the body and the time they might need to retrieve it.

In terms of the Panther jumping on the board and riding it, well, just because the board CAN move at the speed of light doesn't mean it always does or has to; and McDuffie was clearly underscoring T'Challa's own uber-abilities in terms of his agility.

I thought this was an utterly 'fantastic' issue and definitely the kind of thing I want to see a lot more of. I can't wait to see who's in the new Frightful Four.


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Dr. Shallot




As I mentioned in a reply to Fiasco below, can 3 or 4 panels ruin an otherwise fine issue? In this specific instance, at least for me, it dampened my overall enjoyment. I'm not the type to get caught up in debates like "character X could never do that to character Y", but I thought McDuffie was pumping up the Panther a bit too much.

I see your point-The Surfer most definitely could have just been allowing these things to happen in deference to his long-term relationship with the FF. Later on he showed a certain level of omniscience by knowing that Michael Collins was going to fire a weapon at him. At this point he seemed to be stating "enough is enough, no more games."

Still, my inner fanboy is a little bit upset with this scene. Otherwise I thought it was a fine issue and I am enjoying the next chapter in Gravity's story. The FF has always been a showcase for future stars, and I think Gravity has the potential to be one.

I too am looking forward to McDuffie's Frightful Four.






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Tiger Shark




...and probably the Trapster, since he's exactly the kind of character McDuffie can 'make fresh' and see the full potential of, even if it's a fairly limited potential.

That leaves us with one vacancy, and in the past, it has most often been filled by a woman (perhaps it always has; I'm not sure: Medusa, Llyra, Thundra...who else? Was Titania ever in the FF?).

What female criminals are available and likely? The alien female Halflife? Titania, in fact? Quicksand? Dragonfly of the Ani-Men? God forbid, even Spiral? Princess Python? Cybermancer, who is apparently back in action? Llyra, again? Sharon Ventura, somehow? Any guesses? Will McDuffie go out on a limb?

I understand your feelings about the T'Challa-SS fracas--which we're only going to see more of next issue--but I was 'becalmed' by the reasoning I gave above.

The SS cannot be stopped by Storm, the Torch, or the Thing, and certainly not by T'Challa.

I really didn't mind seeing the Panther jumping on the board, since we were shown the trajectory of his 'bounce'---it was clearly underscoring the excellent, the uber-excellence, of his panther skills. I love seeing T'Challa back in his more traditional/original costume.

Peace.


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Jase




> ...and probably the Trapster, since he's exactly the kind of character McDuffie can 'make fresh' and see the full potential of, even if it's a fairly limited potential.
>
> That leaves us with one vacancy, and in the past, it has most often been filled by a woman (perhaps it always has; I'm not sure: Medusa, Llyra, Thundra...who else? Was Titania ever in the FF?).
>

She was indeed. During the Englehart run, she was part of a Frightful Four lineup made up at the time of Wizard, Trapster, Hydro-Man and herself. It's actually one of my more favorite Frightful Four teams.

> What female criminals are available and likely? The alien female Halflife? Titania, in fact? Quicksand?

She'd be an interesting substitution for Sandman, I think.

>Dragonfly of the Ani-Men? God forbid, even Spiral? Princess Python? Cybermancer, who is apparently back in action? Llyra, again? Sharon Ventura, somehow? Any guesses? Will McDuffie go out on a limb?
>
> I understand your feelings about the T'Challa-SS fracas--which we're only going to see more of next issue--but I was 'becalmed' by the reasoning I gave above.
>
> The SS cannot be stopped by Storm, the Torch, or the Thing, and certainly not by T'Challa.
>
> I really didn't mind seeing the Panther jumping on the board, since we were shown the trajectory of his 'bounce'---it was clearly underscoring the excellent, the uber-excellence, of his panther skills. I love seeing T'Challa back in his more traditional/original costume.
>
> Peace.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Attok12




> ...and probably the Trapster, since he's exactly the kind of character McDuffie can 'make fresh' and see the full potential of, even if it's a fairly limited potential.
>
> That leaves us with one vacancy, and in the past, it has most often been filled by a woman (perhaps it always has; I'm not sure: Medusa, Llyra, Thundra...who else? Was Titania ever in the FF?).
>
> What female criminals are available and likely? The alien female Halflife? Titania, in fact? Quicksand? Dragonfly of the Ani-Men? God forbid, even Spiral? Princess Python? Cybermancer, who is apparently back in action? Llyra, again? Sharon Ventura, somehow? Any guesses? Will McDuffie go out on a limb?

....Cybermancer since she's supposed to be a heroine. The Crossing Suzi Endo was killed off, if I recall correctly. And that one was from an alternate future.

Out of the ladies on your list, I'd prefer to see Dragonfly or Princess Python, since I think McDuffie would write them well.


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Tiger Shark




~


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
spiderprince




> I agree that the SS could have done any number of things to take out the Panther at that moment without moving a muscle, but I feel that from the moment he arrived, he was, in the back of his mind, giving his friends and the others a wide swath in terms of his approach to them and the situation; in other words, he was more willing to listen to them and sympathize with them than he let on. So he could have taken out the Panther 1-2-3, but didn't--he knew he was in 0% danger.

Eh, didn't read that way. He gave them a wide berth but when Thing went at him he made it pretty clear he wasn't joking around. He wasn't going all out by any means cause these people are his friends, but he wasn't sitting around agonizing either. As he told Ben in the same issue, sometimes you have to make the hard choices.

> And as we saw, he soon came out on their side regarding the issue of the body and the time they might need to retrieve it.

He did, but that was after Stardust had to "rescue" him.

> In terms of the Panther jumping on the board and riding it, well, just because the board CAN move at the speed of light doesn't mean it always does or has to; and McDuffie was clearly underscoring T'Challa's own uber-abilities in terms of his agility.

Thats why I said that that point was a minor thing. Easily overlooked.

> I thought this was an utterly 'fantastic' issue and definitely the kind of thing I want to see a lot more of. I can't wait to see who's in the new Frightful Four.

Well if I have to look forward to Panther beating Galactus in a boxing match by grabbing his thumb or something else utterly insane then I'm out. This wasn't the only thing that got me about this issue, but it was the most jarring for me. Next issue will really be the key for me as it has Surfer vs Panther. I don't mind Panther beating Norrin, but by force is just stupid. If next issue is more of the same then FF will be officially dropped.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
Omar Karindu




> ...and probably the Trapster, since he's exactly the kind of character McDuffie can 'make fresh' and see the full potential of, even if it's a fairly limited potential.
>
> That leaves us with one vacancy, and in the past, it has most often been filled by a woman (perhaps it always has; I'm not sure: Medusa, Llyra, Thundra...who else? Was Titania ever in the FF?).
>

The Brute, and later Electro, filled out the lineup in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Actually, in the 1970s the Frightful Four spent as much time as a trio looking for a fourth as they did as a foursome.

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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SQUEAK




> The Brute, and later Electro, filled out the lineup in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Actually, in the 1970s the Frightful Four spent as much time as a trio looking for a fourth as they did as a foursome.

More than two... Don't forget MTU #2, where they mind-controlled Spider-Man into being their fourth, or Blastaar in the Worlds Greatest Comic Magazine "maxi-series". Or for that matter, Wizard, Trapster, Man-Bull, Dreadknight in "Spider-Man: Chaos in Calgary." Or the Wizard's failed pseudo-Frightful Four, with him, Deadpool, Taskmaster, and Constrictor. I think that may be all the all-male lineups, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Lots of Frightful Fours out there, and a good chunk missing females!


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