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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343



Seems awful quick to cancel a series after only 2 issues.

http://www.newsweek.com/marvel-cancels-tanehisi-coates-black-panther-crew-comic-609121





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Jim




Just a bunch of race baiting drivel. It won't be missed. Hands up, don't shoot.....


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,901



    Quote:
    Just a bunch of race baiting drivel. It won't be missed. Hands up, don't shoot.....


Have you actually read this Black Panther run? Because either you haven't or you've fundamentally misunderstood it.



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,901


This is the second Black Panther spinoff. Black Panther can't sustain three different books.



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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    This is the second Black Panther spinoff. Black Panther can't sustain three different books.


Yeah I thought three was one too many.

But maybe it would have worked if these spinoffs were launched right before the movie came out.


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Jim




Yes I have. It's simply a race baiting progressive turd that was flushed.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,500


His main series is only selling around 30k (sorta concerning).
The first spinoff is selling 14k (danger of cancellation high).
They really thought a third spinoff was going to work, even with guest stars? It debuted at 35k. Yup, not long for this world.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    Yes I have. It's simply a race baiting progressive turd that was flushed.


Uh huh. Didn't you write this a while back:


    Quote:
    Marvel tries to market actual longterm minorities and you all bolt. No amount of mental gymnastics will prove that half of Marvels fans aren't bigots.


So when you said that you had the exact opposite opinion. The only thing that stayed consistent was you wanting to argue with people.

Just stop posting here. You're just here to stir up crap.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    His main series is only selling around 30k (sorta concerning).
    The first spinoff is selling 14k (danger of cancellation high).
    They really thought a third spinoff was going to work, even with guest stars? It debuted at 35k. Yup, not long for this world.


When this series came out I just sort of assumed Marvel was getting good buzz from writer Ta-Nehisi Coates and I figured Marvel was trying to raise his profile...but cancelling one of his books after 2 issues won't do that.





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Panthera




Well

1) You have to have the head of the title appear in the book. BP did not appear in the first two issues (except a splash last page in issue #2).

2) When did BP and Storm work out their issues??!?! Their relationship has done a completely 180 degree term in the span of 3 issues (there were two odd appearances by Storm in recent issues of BP).

3) Retcon/Timing. Since when did Storm visit Harlem during the outback years. When was the last time BP was in Harlem (I think the closest was Hell's Kitchen and when was that?!?!?!)

4) Agree with RM, if this book should have ever been released; it should have been closer to the release of the movie.


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Stu The Disgruntled Greek

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Member Since: Tue Nov 05, 1996
Posts: 1,251


From what I read, the series is going to have all 6 issues shipped. So at least they are letting the story finish up but with a different artist. (re: cheaper...)

The Disgruntled Greek


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,500



    Quote:
    3) Retcon/Timing. Since when did Storm visit Harlem during the outback years. When was the last time BP was in Harlem (I think the closest was Hell's Kitchen and when was that?!?!?!)

She says she was fighting Brood in Australia, which didn't happen either. They fought the Brood in Denver. But based on that, it was probably immediately before the Genoshan adventure. She could have been going back and forth to Harlem the entire time they were in Australia, thanks to Gateway.


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 442


Seriously "Jim"? You're not really anything but an instigator, thanks for visiting, have a safe ride home.....or just away.


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Panthera




True; Gateway was shown as the method she used to visit Harlem. I just don't like the fact that it was never explored during the actual Australian years and/or thrown as a bone now.

Her Harlem 'roots' are always thrown in willy-nilly; rarely with any consistency.

Maybe because I'm a daddy's girl; but I have always disliked how Ororo's paternal family/ties have never been explored. Especially since she was 'based' in upstate NY. How far was Harlem?

Actually, my opinion, a lot of Ororo's family has been ignored/downplayed. Were her parents only children? I remember an ancestor was mentioned/seen once (in New Mutants); a cousin(?) was mentioned in her recent solo book; and Spike in the cartoon. Given how much attention has been given to other Xmen family members, I think she's been shafted.

Ooh, that was a much longer rant than expected. ;\)



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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    True; Gateway was shown as the method she used to visit Harlem. I just don't like the fact that it was never explored during the actual Australian years and/or thrown as a bone now.



    Quote:
    Her Harlem 'roots' are always thrown in willy-nilly; rarely with any consistency.


Her Harlem roots are willy nilly. She was a small child when she found herself in Kenya.


    Quote:
    Maybe because I'm a daddy's girl; but I have always disliked how Ororo's paternal family/ties have never been explored. Especially since she was 'based' in upstate NY. How far was Harlem?


Ororo to be fair spent most of her childhood in Kenya and had gaps in her memory about her earlier life in America.


    Quote:
    Actually, my opinion, a lot of Ororo's family has been ignored/downplayed. Were her parents only children? I remember an ancestor was mentioned/seen once (in New Mutants); a cousin(?) was mentioned in her recent solo book; and Spike in the cartoon. Given how much attention has been given to other Xmen family members, I think she's been shafted.


No her father's family was explored a while back in 2006 I think. We met her paternal grandparents (the grandmother was Harriet...I think the grandfather wasn't named), we learned her father's sister died of AIDS and that this aunt of Ororo's had a son named David Munroe Jr.

I think the grandparents were in the nation of Islam but I might have that part wrong.


    Quote:
    Ooh, that was a much longer rant than expected. ;\)





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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,500



    Quote:
    True; Gateway was shown as the method she used to visit Harlem. I just don't like the fact that it was never explored during the actual Australian years and/or thrown as a bone now.

It wold have been completely idiotic for Claremont to waste time on this back in the Australian years.


    Quote:
    Her Harlem 'roots' are always thrown in willy-nilly; rarely with any consistency.

Well, those "roots" never were very deep. She was only 5 when she left.


    Quote:
    Maybe because I'm a daddy's girl; but I have always disliked how Ororo's paternal family/ties have never been explored. Especially since she was 'based' in upstate NY. How far was Harlem?

It would have been a waste of time back in the day. And Hudlin did eventually explore her paternal family. And that gave us... nothing. She's got a boring paternal grandmother, noname aunts on both sides (paternal one died of AIDS years ago), and a maternal uncle.


    Quote:
    Actually, my opinion, a lot of Ororo's family has been ignored/downplayed. Were her parents only children? I remember an ancestor was mentioned/seen once (in New Mutants); a cousin(?) was mentioned in her recent solo book; and Spike in the cartoon. Given how much attention has been given to other Xmen family members, I think she's been shafted.

Frankly, she was a lot better off, as a character, being an orphan street urchin.

If anything, this is the main reason it's a mistake to develop any Harlem roots. Suddenly, she's spending this time in Harlem, but didn't look up any family until T'Challa recently did it for her. It was better to leave Harlem as this place she really has no attachment or affection for.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,500


You had that right. Not just the Nation of Islam, but its more militant wing, the Fruit of Islam. Sorta weird for Harriet, because Fruit is male only.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    If anything, this is the main reason it's a mistake to develop any Harlem roots. Suddenly, she's spending this time in Harlem, but didn't look up any family until T'Challa recently did it for her. It was better to leave Harlem as this place she really has no attachment or affection for.


I have mixed emotions about it.

1. I hate how most comic book characters are orphans who don't know their grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins. I mean it's really rare to find these relations from the main heroes.

2. I liked that Storm was given family. As someone who met my dad's biological family after years of trying to find them and not liking what I found I'm still glad I know what the real story is about my grandparents. Crappy as it was.

Did we NEED to meet her family? No I guess it doesn't add much to the character. But it was nice to see Storm explore this side of her family. I had always been curious about that side of her family.

3. Storm finding out her father's family has all these roots in Harlem...that's great and I don't mean that snarkily. But to me that doesn't mean SHE really has a connection and I think it's disingenuous for any writer to try to uh...exploit it (maybe exploit's too harsh a word). Yes Storm is black...but she did not grow up black in America...her life experience was very different. Storm was a small child when she left Harlem so to me it seems wrong to try to emphasize her connection to Harlem unless you explain she barely has one and is eager to learn about its history.



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Panthera




Hence the rant. ;\)

She was an orphaned. I would think once you are back in the country where your father came from you would want to look up family. This was done...sporadically throughout the character's history. I'm saying it should have been more consistent.

Should she have this deep relationship with Harlem? Either give her one or don't stop, riding the fence. Make it part of her character or don't.

But good gravy give the woman something outside of the Xmen (and not necessarily BP until they go to therapy). I can understand while she was headmistress she didn't have any outside friends, hobbies, etc. But c'mon when the world is constantly trying to kill you or marry you off...expand your friend zone.




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    Seriously "Jim"? You're not really anything but an instigator, thanks for visiting, have a safe ride home.....or just away.


I think Jim used to also be Bob. Bob seemed to have the same MO.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    Hence the rant. ;\)



    Quote:
    She was an orphaned. I would think once you are back in the country where your father came from you would want to look up family. This was done...sporadically throughout the character's history. I'm saying it should have been more consistent.



    Quote:
    Should she have this deep relationship with Harlem? Either give her one or don't stop, riding the fence. Make it part of her character or don't.


Yeah they are riding the fence IMO.


    Quote:
    But good gravy give the woman something outside of the Xmen (and not necessarily BP until they go to therapy). I can understand while she was headmistress she didn't have any outside friends, hobbies, etc. But c'mon when the world is constantly trying to kill you or marry you off...expand your friend zone.


Well I have to completely agree with you there. You would think she could take Stevie Hunter out to eat or something.

The X-Men really all have these weird co-dependent relationships.



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Jim




No, that wasn't me. What are you talking about? If you like stories based on a false narrative, knock yourself out.


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Jim




Thanks, snowflake.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:
    No, that wasn't me. What are you talking about? If you like stories based on a false narrative, knock yourself out.


So you're not the same Jim who posted further down the board in Grey Gargoyle's "Marvel & The Market Shift" thread? Might want to change your handle or you're going to keep getting that reaction.





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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,500


I would think the opposite. When the world is constantly trying to kill you, don't expand your friend zone. Very little good can possibly come from it. Just more dead friends.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I would think the opposite. When the world is constantly trying to kill you, don't expand your friend zone. Very little good can possibly come from it. Just more dead friends.


Well I mean sure it sucks to be them being killed and all. But you go nuts without friends.

So I say just befriend the crappiest people you can find so you won't miss them \:\)


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 442


Jim = busted


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 442


Ah, Jim has a pet name for me he must like me \:\-\)




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,506



    Quote:
    Actually, my opinion, a lot of Ororo's family has been ignored/downplayed. Were her parents only children? I remember an ancestor was mentioned/seen once (in New Mutants); a cousin(?) was mentioned in her recent solo book; and Spike in the cartoon. Given how much attention has been given to other Xmen family members, I think she's been shafted.


I stopped reading the X-Men consistently back in the 90s. Since then, I would dabble in particular story lines that for whatever reason looked interesting to me. (Recently the X-Men versus Inhumans caught my interest.)

Somehow, as a result, I knew nothing about Ororo's roots except that she'd been a street waif and thief in Cairo and a rain goddess to some African tribe. Frankly, that's all I ever wanted or needed to know. Both portions of her history were unusual for a superhero and together they really seemed to explain how she became the type of person she became. Isn't that enough? I thought so.

So of course Marvel had to keep tinkering. They can never leave the past alone. Ugh.






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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,343




    Quote:

      Quote:
      Actually, my opinion, a lot of Ororo's family has been ignored/downplayed. Were her parents only children? I remember an ancestor was mentioned/seen once (in New Mutants); a cousin(?) was mentioned in her recent solo book; and Spike in the cartoon. Given how much attention has been given to other Xmen family members, I think she's been shafted.



    Quote:
    I stopped reading the X-Men consistently back in the 90s. Since then, I would dabble in particular story lines that for whatever reason looked interesting to me. (Recently the X-Men versus Inhumans caught my interest.)



    Quote:
    Somehow, as a result, I knew nothing about Ororo's roots except that she'd been a street waif and thief in Cairo and a rain goddess to some African tribe. Frankly, that's all I ever wanted or needed to know. Both portions of her history were unusual for a superhero and together they really seemed to explain how she became the type of person she became. Isn't that enough? I thought so.


I don't think that's entirely fair. We already knew her father was American. That part of her family history was unknown to her. To me it made sense to explore that even if it was only briefly. It wasn't like when they changed Tony Stark into being adopted. They just explored a part of Ororo's family that had never been explored.

Ororo is a black woman who lives in America and her father is American...to me it just makes sense to explore her family roots. Should they be exploited to make it look she understands the plight of Black Americans...probably not...her childhood in Kenya doesn't give her that perspective to draw from. But I see nothing wrong with her exploring her family tree. At least they didn't make her related to half the Marvel Universe like they do with Wolverine's family.

Personally I think we've seen much worse incidents of characters finding their long lost family. This story avenue for Storm was pretty low drama if memory serves. And I like when we find out more about a characters family when it doesn't involves clones, robots with copied brain engrams, or time travel/alternate timelines. She had fairly normal nobody relatives which was comforting.


    Quote:
    So of course Marvel had to keep tinkering. They can never leave the past alone. Ugh.






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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Mon Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 9,506



    Quote:
    I don't think that's entirely fair. We already knew her father was American.


Yes but her parents were dead so they were out of the picture in my opinion. It's not like she swore on their graves to avenge them. They were alive one day and dead the next by the vagaries of fate - and the nihilism this could have inspired in Ororo never manifested as far as I know. She just moved on and did her best to survive on her own.



    Quote:
    That part of her family history was unknown to her. To me it made sense to explore that even if it was only briefly. It wasn't like when they changed Tony Stark into being adopted. They just explored a part of Ororo's family that had never been explored.


I guess that's a story worth telling. I can see how she as a person would care about that. But I as a reader had no interest in it because nothing that came out of that story would illuminate Storm as a character. Egypt and the jungles of Africa formed her. Harlem didn't. It would be like telling the story of Tarzan's forebears. Sure, Tarzan would be interested in tales of the Greystokes - but I as a reader wouldn't be. Nor would I as a reader be interested in tales of Krypton - though of course Kal-El as a person would be very interested. (However, I will grant you that there are definitely people who, in the Silver Age, wanted to read tales of Krypton. So I know my perspective isn't universal by any means.)






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