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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,408


This might be (Oh heck, I'm pretty sure that it is or will be.) an unpopular opinion on this board, but I'm kind of sad that Marvel will be Bendisless for at least a year. I think that the big problem with Bendis was that he was just overexposed and on too many darn books. That, and he works really well with certain characters and certain types of books. Daredevil, Alias, Scarlet, etc. I don't think that he's a good fit for team books or for writing characters like Thanos. He could still do good work. Overall though, he obviously brought a lot to the Marvel Universe, and they got quite a bit from him. He left a legacy (Although surprisingly, for a guy who's been there for nearly two decades, he really hasn't created THAT many new or long-term characters. Especially considering the fact that he killed off dozens and dozens of established characters.), and I would have liked to have seen his future plans for his books. I AM glad that he's moving on from Spider-man, as he's had more than his say at this point. So, if they kept Bendis to one or two books (And maybe keep him away from big events.), I really don't think that there would be any problem.

But I have read some articles that claim that this is another sign that Marvel is going downhill, and I just don't see it. I do think that this is certainly a loss for Marvel, but it's hardly an end sign, and Marvel will go on. Especially after all of these movies, which seem to be where the money is these days. And there's also Jason Aaron, who could very well be the new Bendis of the MU. I wish Bendis well, and part of me is disheartened by this. Bendis didn't always do good work, but he definitely contributed, and he definitely loved the characters. So, here's to Jason Aaron.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    This might be (Oh heck, I'm pretty sure that it is or will be.) an unpopular opinion on this board, but I'm kind of sad that Marvel will be Bendisless for at least a year. I think that the big problem with Bendis was that he was just overexposed and on too many darn books. That, and he works really well with certain characters and certain types of books. Daredevil, Alias, Scarlet, etc. I don't think that he's a good fit for team books or for writing characters like Thanos. He could still do good work. Overall though, he obviously brought a lot to the Marvel Universe, and they got quite a bit from him. He left a legacy (Although surprisingly, for a guy who's been there for nearly two decades, he really hasn't created THAT many new or long-term characters. Especially considering the fact that he killed off dozens and dozens of established characters.), and I would have liked to have seen his future plans for his books. I AM glad that he's moving on from Spider-man, as he's had more than his say at this point. So, if they kept Bendis to one or two books (And maybe keep him away from big events.), I really don't think that there would be any problem.



    Quote:
    But I have read some articles that claim that this is another sign that Marvel is going downhill, and I just don't see it. I do think that this is certainly a loss for Marvel, but it's hardly an end sign, and Marvel will go on. Especially after all of these movies, which seem to be where the money is these days. And there's also Jason Aaron, who could very well be the new Bendis of the MU. I wish Bendis well, and part of me is disheartened by this. Bendis didn't always do good work, but he definitely contributed, and he definitely loved the characters. So, here's to Jason Aaron.








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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,843


I love Jessica Jones.
I dig his revitalization and Avengerization of Luke Cage.
I like a lot of what he did with Avengers. But... most of the things he did collapse.
I did not like his Spider-Woman.
I flat-out loathe everything he did X-wise.

And in general, I think he stayed in the Marvel Universe way too long. So, I will not miss him.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
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Posts: 25,843


I'd rather another decade of Bendis before another year of the following (no particular order):

Austen
Liefeld
Lobdell
Fraction
Guggenheim
Hickman
Morrison
Ellis
Jeph Loeb
JMS
Remender
Slott
Aaron.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 544


Bendis only cared about his characters and his favorites, pissed on everything that came before him, never gave a single thought to existing continuity, and poisoned decades worth of existing heroes for his own plots. He was horrible for Marvel and their willingness to let him jump from one corner to another of their universe just spread the bile and poison around. He is the chief reason that there is no more continuity in the 616. On top of it all, he spoke as if the comic medium never existed until he arrived.

Good riddance to bad things. My sympathy to DC.



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Grey Gargoyle

(for example, in Ultimate Spider-Man & Daredevil)

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 13,462




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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 544


His street-level work was good (Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Miles Morales) but as soon as they gave him the keys to the 616 Universe, things went bad. And the list of characters he burned to the ground or completely sold out and the continuity he completely dumped on or just flat out ignored is unforgivable. His good work pales in comparison to the damage he has done.

Here are just a few of the character he "jobbed", never liked, never understood or flat out destroyed: (this is just a few, feel free to add more)

Nova (Richard Rider)
Scarlet Witch
WonderMan
Wasp
She-Hulk
Hawkeye
Captain America
Iron Man
War Machine
Vision
Beast (as an Avenger & Xmen)
Wolverine (as an Avenger)
Namor
Hank Pym
Scott Lang
Ms./Capt. Marvel
Spiderman 616
Dr. Strange
The Fantastic Four
The whole of the X-Men Universe
The whole of the Guardians of the Galaxy
The concept of the Thunderbolts




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,843


Every character he "treated badly" was out of love.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    I'd rather another decade of Bendis before another year of the following (no particular order):



    Quote:
    Austen
    Liefeld
    Lobdell
    Fraction
    Guggenheim
    Hickman
    Morrison
    Ellis
    Jeph Loeb
    JMS
    Remender
    Slott
    Aaron.


I dislike all of them less than I do Bendis. The only one I dislike more than Bendis is Mark Millar. That guy is just awful.

I think almost everyone of those writers has written something I disliked but also written something I liked (except Guggenheim...not sure I even know him). Slott for example I hate his Spider-Man but his GLA work was great. I liked Hickman's Fantastic Four I hated his Secret Wars.





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Every character he "treated badly" was out of love.


And the holocaust was tough love for Jews.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    His street-level work was good (Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Miles Morales) but as soon as they gave him the keys to the 616 Universe, things went bad. And the list of characters he burned to the ground or completely sold out and the continuity he completely dumped on or just flat out ignored is unforgivable. His good work pales in comparison to the damage he has done.



    Quote:
    Here are just a few of the character he "jobbed", never liked, never understood or flat out destroyed: (this is just a few, feel free to add more)



    Quote:
    Nova (Richard Rider)
    Scarlet Witch
    WonderMan
    Wasp
    She-Hulk
    Hawkeye
    Captain America
    Iron Man
    War Machine
    Vision
    Beast (as an Avenger & Xmen)
    Wolverine (as an Avenger)
    Namor
    Hank Pym
    Scott Lang
    Ms./Capt. Marvel
    Spiderman 616
    Dr. Strange
    The Fantastic Four
    The whole of the X-Men Universe
    The whole of the Guardians of the Galaxy
    The concept of the Thunderbolts


I always felt DnA banished Nova to the cancerverse on purpose. I figured they did that out of fear the eye of Sauron Bendis was looking in Rich's direction and they wanted to preserve Rich.





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Bendis only cared about his characters and his favorites, pissed on everything that came before him, never gave a single thought to existing continuity, and poisoned decades worth of existing heroes for his own plots. He was horrible for Marvel and their willingness to let him jump from one corner to another of their universe just spread the bile and poison around. He is the chief reason that there is no more continuity in the 616. On top of it all, he spoke as if the comic medium never existed until he arrived.


Bendis is Sauron from the Lord of the Rings. He just corrupts everything.


    Quote:
    Good riddance to bad things. My sympathy to DC.








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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,670


he was the definition of forcing characters into a story and ignoring all the bits that got in the way. He generally was just lazy with stories. Not saying everything was bad, but it was not really good in terms of continuity or general story telling.

I am not sad to see him go.




Look Raist bunnies...
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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    I'd rather another decade of Bendis before another year of the following (no particular order):



    Quote:
    Austen
    Fraction
    Hickman
    Morrison
    Jeph Loeb
    JMS
    Remender
    Slott


I rearranged your names to make two groups - the above and the below. The above are names that will cause me to automatically reject a Marvel comic. Bendis could be added to that list. I just can't stand these guys on Marvel comics. However, Hickman, under the Image imprint, is writing The Black Monday Murders, which I love.

The below are names that I don't automatically recoil from, though I may have problems with some of what they do. For example, Jason Aaron had Lady Thor fight Odin to a standstill, which is beyond stupid. He also made Jane Foster into a courageous figure when she was never anywhere near courageous in the Silver Age. You know, I bet if I was more familiar with Jason Aaron's work, I would recoil from him automatically. But I enjoyed his Marvel Legacy one-shot.


    Quote:

    Liefeld
    Lobdell
    Guggenheim
    Ellis
    Aaron.







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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317



    Quote:
    I'd rather another decade of Bendis before another year of the following (no particular order):



    Quote:
    Austen
    Liefeld
    Lobdell
    Fraction
    Guggenheim
    Hickman
    Morrison
    Ellis
    Jeph Loeb
    JMS
    Remender
    Slott
    Aaron.


For me too there are lots of writers I would put in a similar list, though I probably would quibble about a few, e.g. Lobdell and Straczynski. However, I would say even in the case of these two I would be a bit dubious were they to return to Marvel because I think their form has fallen considerably since I felt enthusiastic about comics they wrote.

But I would have to consider Bendis in a very different category from most of the people you listed. I think the only thing written by Slott I really enjoyed was his GLA stuff - IIRC that's four issues and a half (the Christmas special was co-written by Nicieza) in a Marvel career spanning over a decade. Meanwhile with Bendis I enjoyed something like 150 issues of various Ultimate Spider-Man titles, much of early Powers, and Invincible Iron Man is currently one of my favourites on my pull list. And while there are some things he did that I disliked (I'd say he very much botched the "outing" of Iceman), I find many of the melodramatic accusations of his overwrought haters rather exaggerated, in particular with regard to the long-term impact of his work. (If he damaged the Wasp so terribly, how come I enjoyed er recent appearances in ANADAvengers, Uncanny Avengers and Unstoppable Wasp so much?). Also, I must say I cannot share the optimism expressed by some of Bendis' detractors that things can't help but improve after he leaves, indeed the announcement of return of Jean Grey and of a Rogue & Gambit series already made me apprehensive about the direction Marvel is going to take in 2018, and now I also have to worry that e.g. Mary Jane Watson will be returned to the toxic mess that is the post-OMD Spider-Man family of books and will fall victim to Dan Slott's next stroke of "genius".





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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,843


Really bad taste to use that analogy.

These are not real people we're talking about. They are fictional characters, and one of the things that makes them interesting is the tragedy brought to their lives. Bendis is on record claiming his love for every character he brought misery to.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 544


I like the poeticness of that, not sure if it is true but from now on I will pretend it is. \:\-\)


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 544


Ya, I call bullshit on Bendis's "love" theory.

Let's use Hawkeye, for example, Brian clearly never understood on even the most basic level, what made him tick. Turned a great everyday man into a murderer.

He used the characters he didn't bother to understand as cannon fodder and disposable parts for the characters he did like/ pointless plot devices. And the carnage his plots left in their wake ripped holes in the Marvel continuity because he was lazy and/or couldn't care less. There have been countless interviews with Brian Bendis where he pontificates as if the comic medium never existed before his arrival.

Tell Tigra how much he loves her.


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John Morrissey


Member Since: Wed Jul 26, 2017
Posts: 37


Hell no! Good riddance! Let him go mess up DC for a couple decades.Too bad he can't take Miles and Riri with him.


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,408


I did a big post on this here before, but very few characters in ongoing fiction can be destroyed or ruined forever. Those sound like changes or stories that you didn't like. Also, what did he do to or with the Thunderbolts? To my knowledge, he never even touched the book.


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,408


He doesn't own them, and he hasn't created many. How did he ruin continuity? His run on The Avengers might have actually used TOO much continuity (There was stuff in there that I wasn't even familiar with.). As to using favorites, pretty much all writers seem to do that. I guess that Claremont's Uncanny or Frank Miller's Daredevil run should be bad then, too.


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,408




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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317




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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,843



    Quote:
    Ya, I call bullshit on Bendis's "love" theory.

    Let's use Hawkeye, for example, Brian clearly never understood on even the most basic level, what made him tick. Turned a great everyday man into a murderer.

    He used the characters he didn't bother to understand as cannon fodder and disposable parts for the characters he did like/ pointless plot devices. And the carnage his plots left in their wake ripped holes in the Marvel continuity because he was lazy and/or couldn't care less. There have been countless interviews with Brian Bendis where he pontificates as if the comic medium never existed before his arrival.

"Understanding" is a very subjective thing. Frankly though, I liked his Clint more than most other writers' Clint. The character had pretty much been on my s-list since West Coast Avengers. Bendis got me to like the guy for the first time in ages.


    Quote:
    Tell Tigra how much he loves her.

I don't recall his opinion on Tigra (other than he thinks she can beat Batman), but just because a writer does bad things to a character doesn't mean he/she loves that character. Sometimes it's dislike; other times it's apathy. Maybe he was just more interested in writing a cool Hood than give Tigra the justice she deserved.

Hey, were I a writer and had the chance, Squirrel Girl would be a blood pulp, and it's not because I loooooove her. It's because squirrelly things must die.




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139


It wasn't just Bendis. It was Millar too, and Fraction, and JMS, and Austen, and Loeb, and Slott - the list goes on and includes most of the 21st century superstars.

They specialized in "WTF" moments. Daredevil's secret identity gets outed. "WTF?" This couldn't possibly be allowed to stand and anyone reasonable knew it. Daredevil cannot be Daredevil without a secret identity. Foggy and everyone else he cared about would be dead within days if not hours. Matt doesn't have nearly the power needed to protect his loved ones from random attacks. No superhero does. You would have to be pretty darn close to all-knowing and all-powerful. Even Superman couldn't protect Lois 24/7. Secret identities are not optional unless all of your loved ones are super-powered highly trained warriors like yourself. But secret identities are "old school" so they had to go. Except they only went away until the writers got tired of the endless gymnastics necessary to somehow tell stories where Foggy isn't dead yet.

I don't like "WTF" moments. I want the writers who specialize in them to go away.






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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

    "Understanding" is a very subjective thing. Frankly though, I liked his Clint more than most other writers' Clint. The character had pretty much been on my s-list since West Coast Avengers. Bendis got me to like the guy for the first time in ages.


He turned Hawkeye into a murderer. Thus undercutting any interaction Hawkeye ever had with Mockingbird, US Agent or the Thunderbolts. Or even the stance he took during Operation Galactic Storm. He got wrong the most important part of Hawkeye...Clint doesn't like to kill.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Really bad taste to use that analogy.


Well I wasn't trying to say they were of EQUAL importance \:\)







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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,884


I thought he was good with certain corners of the Marvel Universe. He wrote young people really well (Ultimate Peter Parker and his supporting cast, for example). I thought he was good with street-level characters like Daredevil, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. He also wrote neurotic characters very well - kind of like the Woody Allen of comics.

Unfortunately when they let him take over the Avengers it all went wrong. He made the mistake of limited writers, and tried to parlay his strengths into a new genre. Unfortunately that meant he tried to write the Avengers like they were a bunch of neurotic teenagers. He reduced them rather than elevated them. And even the most amateur of writers ought to know that a character like Captain America doesn't banter.

His idea to take the big sellers and put them into a single book was a commercial success, granted. But it wasn't good for the characters. Having Spider-man as an Avenger diminished his solo book - what villain could be threatening if he could just whip out his Avengers ID card and call in reinforcements? Spider-man worked well as a solo character and always will. As for Wolverine as an Avenger - ugh. That worked just as well as when they tried to make Reed Richards an Avenger.

His events seemed to have good ideas at first, but usually they just sort of petered out by the end, and left you wondering why you spent all that money. Near the end his events were pathetically repetitive, boiling down to only one concept - hero vs. hero, in one form or another. In the words of the Barenaked Ladies, it's all been done before. It really doesn't surprise me that he is moving on - I don't think he has any ideas left that could seem fresh or surprising.

DC readers are in for a roller coaster. But not a fun one.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,617


Add Nick Fury to that list.

Secret War was the beginning of the end for Fury, as it turned him into the kind of murky ends-justify-the-mean, pseudo war criminal that some people like to think our real world security services are occupied by. After that SHIELD just became a bunch of people who seemed to spend all their time infringing civil rights.

He also then had a hand in Secret Warriors, which was essentially a charge of the light brigade for pretty much all of the orginal agents.


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