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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139


We haven't had an X-Files thread yet, so I figure we're due!

Did you watch it? Were you addicted to it? Did you like the 1998 film? Do you feel the mythology made sense? Did you like Mulder and Scully as a romantic couple or would you have preferred they stayed Platonic? Do you think the Smoking Man was well handled as a concept? What bugged you about the series?







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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    We haven't had an X-Files thread yet, so I figure we're due!



    Quote:
    Did you watch it? Were you addicted to it? Did you like the 1998 film? Do you feel the mythology made sense? Did you like Mulder and Scully as a romantic couple or would you have preferred they stayed Platonic? Do you think the Smoking Man was well handled as a concept? What bugged you about the series?


I liked the show until like the start of the 7th season or so. I have all of the DVDs but I've never sat down and watched every episode. I've seen most of the first 6 or 7 seasons but I don't know if I have it in me to watch seasons 8 and 9.

To me the mythology didn't make sense in the end but I don't know that I got that in the early seasons. In the early seasons you thought they really had a plan but the show kept getting renewed and stuff never got resolved or it got resolved but it just seemed inconsistent with the earlier setup. A lot of the first 6 season or so episodes were written VERY well IMO.


This monologue by Scully about life on earth is oddly enough my favorite moment in the entire series even if it didn't involve the characters...

"From Space, it seems an abstraction - a magician's trick on a darkened stage. And from this distance one might never imagine that it is alive. It first appeared in the sea almost four billion years ago in the form of single-celled life. In an explosion of life spanning millions of years, nature's first multicellular organisms began to multiply... and then it stopped. 440 million years ago, a great mass extinction would kill off nearly every species on the planet leaving the vast oceans decimated and empty. Slowly, plants began to evolve, then insects, only to be wiped out in the second great mass extinction upon the Earth. The cycle repeated again and again. Reptiles emerging, independent of the sea only to be killed off. Then dinosaurs, struggling to life along with the first birds, fish, and flowering plants - their decimations Earth's fourth and fifth great extinctions. Only 100,000 years ago, Homo Sapiens appear - man. From cave paintings to the bible to Columbus and Apollo 11, we have been a tireless force upon the earth and off cataloging the natural world as it unfolds to us. Rising to a world population of over five billion people all descended from that original single cell, that first spark of life. But for all our knowledge, what no one can say for certain, is what or who ignited that original spark. Is there a plan, a purpose or a reason to our existence? Will we pass, as those before us, into oblivion, into the sixth extinction that scientists warn is already in progress? "

They used to have the video of this scene on Youtube but I think they took it down.



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katefan




I was a huge fan of the show until the sixth season. Season five ended with the X-Files burned and it led into the movie. And then season six started and somehow through the magic of science Mulder was able to reconstruct the x-files. I thought that was a crock.

And then the bee that had stung Scully in the movie, this crucial piece of physical evidence that could prove the conspiracy existed, disappeared. Bad enough that happened, but it was even worse that Scully must have known it was probably going to disappear based on five years worth of dealing with the conspiracy, and then even worse after that that Mulder would make a fool of himself without first making sure all his ducks were in a row. The number of literary hoops they had to jump through to basically undo the progress the movie made were amazing.

I hated the X-Files after that and gave up on it. It was spinning it's wheels at this point because rather than telling a good story with a satisfactory ending Fox wanted to keep the show on the air indefinitely.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


That's exactly what I was going to say that it was frustrating to no end that Mulder and Sculy were supposed to be the heroes of the show and yet they were obviously inept at their jobs because they never managed to prove anything.

They should have had Mulder and Scully prove the alien invasion and started to show us a world very different than our own.

they could have explored how even though the general public knew the truth they might not all actually believe it.

After all scientists have proved global warming is happening and most people believe it but some don't and your average person isn't doing anything about it.

It would have revitalized the show in it's last few years the Cigarette Smoking Man was in jail and Mulder was forced to visit him from time to time for advice. And Mulder and Scully would have been promoted and be in charge of a team of agents whose purpose was to help Earth battle the aliens.


PPP






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Whispering Hands




I was a diehard fan and I own every season. Mind you I caught it after it was off the air in reruns. I think the first 3 seasons are some of my favorite television ever made. No show has ever grabbed me like Season 1 of the X-Files. I didn't really care about the Mulder/Scully situation one way or another. What really grabbed me about the show was Mulder's quest to find his sister and the alien conspiracy which I felt was set up really well early on and then turned into a convoluted mess that never resolved to my satisfaction. Easily my favorite sci-fi series of all time and one of my favorite shows of all time period but it definitely had some serious flaws as well as strengths.


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Whispering Hands




I actually thought the Smoking Man was handled okay but everything else about the Conspiracy ended up being too convoluted and sometimes just bad. The movie I have mixed feelings about. It felt like an end to the show but then the show just...kept going and they had to find a new alien plotline which seemed to have potential beginning with Season 7 but that too was botched IMO.


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katefan




An excellent point regarding the movie. That should have been the beginning of maybe annual motion pictures, or bi-annual to expand the story. Instead they returned to television with diminishing returns year by year.


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katefan




Inept is a good word. Neither Mulder or Scully ever really seemed to learn anything. I think what would have been clever on Scully's part would have been to turn in a fake bee. Allow it to go missing, reveal the real bee (and I'm sure there are ways to maintain the chain of custody where evidence is concerned) and expose the huge security hole in the FBI. And darn it, Mulder should have known better by that point. It just frustrates me that the smartest guy in the room could be written as being so stupid.

And it would have been interesting to see the show change the world, my friend Dave often said the same should have been done with Stargate SG1. You have this capability to visit alien worlds with untold resources to exploit, the potential for colonization, and it's still kept secret? Look at the alien technology discovered and deciphered, and yet none of it is used to alter society?


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Reverend Meteor





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    Inept is a good word. Neither Mulder or Scully ever really seemed to learn anything. I think what would have been clever on Scully's part would have been to turn in a fake bee. Allow it to go missing, reveal the real bee (and I'm sure there are ways to maintain the chain of custody where evidence is concerned) and expose the huge security hole in the FBI. And darn it, Mulder should have known better by that point. It just frustrates me that the smartest guy in the room could be written as being so stupid.



    Quote:
    And it would have been interesting to see the show change the world, my friend Dave often said the same should have been done with Stargate SG1. You have this capability to visit alien worlds with untold resources to exploit, the potential for colonization, and it's still kept secret? Look at the alien technology discovered and deciphered, and yet none of it is used to alter society?


I think it's a little unfair to call them inept. The conspiracy the Cigarette Smoking Man was a part of routinely stymied them and their bosses at the FBI were complicit.

Mulder and Scully never won because the game was rigged not because they were particularly inept. They often got the evidence only for it to be destroyed later and they routinely had their loved ones murdered or kidnapped.

I guess if Mulder and Scully had been active a few years later they could have benefited from smart phones and been able to prove some of their cases.


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katefan




I don't deny that certain members of the FBI were suborned by the conspiracy. What frustrates me so much is how little effort was made to expose those links or to look for allies higher up. Instead when season six starts Mulder and Scully to me look like fools for believing standard operation procedure would be enough to win the day.

And when it comes to physical evidence there was more than just the bee. Remember that huge space ship that flew away at the end of the movie? It left behind a massive hole. Did no one notice the giant hole in the arctic ice? The unnaturally circular hole? This is why I hated season three so much; they created this huge splash with the movie, ended on a high note, and then Fox and Chris Carter kicked me in the crotch with the first episode of season six.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


Good point about Stargate. I never really watched the show so I never thought of that.

They could have advanced every branch of science by hundreds of years.

But I guess their argument would be the humanity isn't ready for such technology.

PPP





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katefan




It would have been a good storyline to follow. For example, how would teleportation technology affect the airline and shipping industry? How would the introduction of new power sources impact the oil and natural gas industry? I think there should have been some more attention focused on these issues.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


An other explaination could have been that they could figure out how to work the controls but not replicate the machines

PPP





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The Anti-Life Equation




I was/am a fan of the series but once I realized they were never going anywhere with the conspiracy, I found myself avoiding what Chris Carter called the "Mythology Episodes". I still love the stand alone episodes however like Tooms, Beyond the Sea, Pusher, Ice, the one with the Russian Tapeworm Man that I can't remember the title of right now.

In my opinion, Mulder and Scully never should be a romantic couple.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


I preferred the stand alone ones too because the Mythology ones got too convoluted. And I use "Mythology" for the bigger picture plotline of every series. I almost forgot Chris Carter coined the phrase.

PPP





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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I was/am a fan of the series but once I realized they were never going anywhere with the conspiracy, I found myself avoiding what Chris Carter called the "Mythology Episodes". I still love the stand alone episodes however like Tooms, Beyond the Sea, Pusher, Ice, the one with the Russian Tapeworm Man that I can't remember the title of right now.


I was the opposite...I ate up the mythology episodes but rarely cared for the stand alone episodes.


    Quote:
    In my opinion, Mulder and Scully never should be a romantic couple.


I'm not sure how I felt about them as a couple. I didn't like them as a couple but I don't like them as strictly partners. I liked them as two co-workers with a deep friendship.

I would have been fine with them being a couple if that's where the show ended...I didn't like it that they drug out that stupid pregnancy story with Scully and giving Mulder's baby away.




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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I don't deny that certain members of the FBI were suborned by the conspiracy. What frustrates me so much is how little effort was made to expose those links or to look for allies higher up. Instead when season six starts Mulder and Scully to me look like fools for believing standard operation procedure would be enough to win the day.


Mulder tried and always failed. He would get somewhere then he would screwed over or his father would get murdered or his sister would come back from the dead and turn out to be a clone or he would get an alien virus or Scully would find an alien fetus but have to give up to save Mulder's life or Scully's genetically engineered daughter would die and her body would vanish.

They weren't incompetent...there was just no way Mulder and Scully were ever going to win. The conspiracy had more resources than they did. There was never a chance to actually win against the conspiracy.



    Quote:
    And when it comes to physical evidence there was more than just the bee. Remember that huge space ship that flew away at the end of the movie? It left behind a massive hole. Did no one notice the giant hole in the arctic ice? The unnaturally circular hole? This is why I hated season three so much; they created this huge splash with the movie, ended on a high note, and then Fox and Chris Carter kicked me in the crotch with the first episode of season six.





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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    I preferred the stand alone ones too because the Mythology ones got too convoluted. And I use "Mythology" for the bigger picture plotline of every series. I almost forgot Chris Carter coined the phrase.


Did he coin mythology or "mytharc"?




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katefan





    Quote:
    Mulder tried and always failed. He would get somewhere then he would screwed over or his father would get murdered or his sister would come back from the dead and turn out to be a clone or he would get an alien virus or Scully would find an alien fetus but have to give up to save Mulder's life or Scully's genetically engineered daughter would die and her body would vanish.



    Quote:
    They weren't incompetent...there was just no way Mulder and Scully were ever going to win. The conspiracy had more resources than they did. There was never a chance to actually win against the conspiracy.


And you see, that is not how I remembered that first episode of season six. Five years and one movie the two understood the conspiracy's SOP and yet they fell right into their old patterns; Mulder made a speech, looks like a fool. Scully turns in key evidence despite key evidence disappearing on her before, and guess what? The bee disappears.

The conspiracy could be thwarted, it could be beaten. The movie proved that. Hell, the conspirators got wiped out by those aliens with the sewn up orifices. In order for the show to be perpetuated, however, Mulder and Scully had to be written less intelligently as we had seen, as people who did not learn from their mistakes.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:

      Quote:
      Mulder tried and always failed. He would get somewhere then he would screwed over or his father would get murdered or his sister would come back from the dead and turn out to be a clone or he would get an alien virus or Scully would find an alien fetus but have to give up to save Mulder's life or Scully's genetically engineered daughter would die and her body would vanish.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        They weren't incompetent...there was just no way Mulder and Scully were ever going to win. The conspiracy had more resources than they did. There was never a chance to actually win against the conspiracy.



    Quote:
    And you see, that is not how I remembered that first episode of season six. Five years and one movie the two understood the conspiracy's SOP and yet they fell right into their old patterns; Mulder made a speech, looks like a fool. Scully turns in key evidence despite key evidence disappearing on her before, and guess what? The bee disappears.



    Quote:
    The conspiracy could be thwarted, it could be beaten. The movie proved that. Hell, the conspirators got wiped out by those aliens with the sewn up orifices. In order for the show to be perpetuated, however, Mulder and Scully had to be written less intelligently as we had seen, as people who did not learn from their mistakes.


Like you said the conspirators got wiped out by the aliens...that was really the only time Scully and Mulder got a triumph over the conspirators...and it wasn't even their triumph.

I seem to remember them faking Mulder's death in a season finale to smoke out someone in the conspiracy. I just don't buy that were particularly incompetent.

Ok I guess Mulder trusting Diana Fowley & Marita Covarrubias was dumb. It seems like every season either Mulder or Scully learned someone they were close with were complicit in the conspiracy.




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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


Good point I guess he called it mytharc but it is now also known as mythology episodes. There is also a term "chris Carter Effect" which means the mythology has gotten so convoluded it seems unlikely it will ever be resolved or explained in any sensible way like how Lost ended up.

PPP





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katefan




Then you see the pattern. Mulder and Scully can't win. Either they are betrayed, or they do something stupid. It was all to perpetuate the series, a series that should have ended with season five.

That's why I got off the bus with the beginning of season six.


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padlock




One of my all-time favorite shows. Great stories, great dialogue. It did get weaker by season six, but was still better than most shows on TV. The only season that was a complete write-off was season 9. That was the worst season of any show I'd seen, up until Smallville's final season. Mulder and Scully as a couple? I could have done without that, although it's not uncommon for spouses to meet each other at work. But, the show was best when Mulder was obsessed with his work. I think any spark between them should have been left to innuendo.

The conspiracy stories fell apart by season 7. The producers knew that a big reason the show was popular was the alien conspiracy. So, they prolonged it, without knowing where they wanted the story to end. It was sloppy writing by then. And the series finale was a joke.

Surprisingly, the major change made after season 6 that I did like was the introduction of John Doggett. I though it was clever for Scully to become the believer(only insofar as defending Mulder's work), and Doggett was the sceptic. A tip of the hat has to be made to Robert Patrick for some solid acting, and making Mulder's departure more palatable.

But, despite the show's poor finish, it still qualifies as one of the best shows ever made. Five brilliant seasons, and 3 decent seasons, one lemon. Any criticisms are outweighed by all the shows bright spots.


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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Then you see the pattern. Mulder and Scully can't win. Either they are betrayed, or they do something stupid. It was all to perpetuate the series, a series that should have ended with season five.



    Quote:
    That's why I got off the bus with the beginning of season six.


I don't want to defend the later seasons too heavily but there were parts I liked about season 6. I personally enjoyed the Jeffrey Spindle/aliens burning abductees stuff.

That said even though Mulder was pretty absent from seasons 8 and 9 I still thought season 7 sucked even with him there.

To me the turning point for the show was the episode One Son. Even though the original syndicate had long since worn out their welcome once that plot was over the mythology episodes never really clicked after that and I tended to tune in for the mythology episodes more so than the monster of the week.


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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626


This is my all-time favorite show. I watched one episode from season one, but didn't become a fan until season 3. Great stuff, some of the best sci-fi in TV history, I'd say. I've tried to go back and watch from the beginning recently, but there are a few episodes that you really never need to see again. On the other hand, episodes like Squeeze, The Host, Home, and Leonard Betts are classics. The mythology was fascinating, but,like some shows, the mystery outshines the reveal. (I think I've given up on Lost in season 2 because of this) I liked the movie. Saw them both in the theater.


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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626


I agree. Doggett was a nice addition, but the show was really losing steam then, and his boost couldn't save it.


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