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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?

Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?

Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?

PPP





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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?


The X-book that interested me most in the 80s and 90s was New Mutants. In fact that book, for me, epitomizes our time period. Cannonball, Subspot, Wolfsbane, Cypher, Magma, Magik, Warlock - especially Warlock - they are what I think of first, when I think of Marvel Comics in our time period. Them, and the artist most associated with them: Bill Sinkiewicz.


    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?


Teen-age and twenty-something soap opera. And as part of that, the plethora of female characters. The X-books were the first, I think, to sometimes have more girls than guys on a team at any given moment. This enabled all the soap opera to a great extent, and also, I suspect, brought girl readers to the books.


    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?


I don't know. But I notice comiXology has a straight run of the 1983 series for the first 34 issues, at $1.99 each. I may give it a shot and see what I think.






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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626



    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?


The only time I bought the X-Men was around '82-84. I liked the books ok but they weren't my favorites. I was just buying everything back then. The only other time I would buy X-Men comics was if they had Spider-Man in them. I also bought New Mutants at the time. I think I have the first 15 or 20 issues.


    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?


I don't know. They never appealed to me. Still don't. I like the 60's-mid 80's X-Men comics well enough, but that's more because they were 60's-mid 80's Marvel books.

I've always theorized that part of the reason is because, like Daredevil, they had low print runs and then became popular, which led to high back issue prices, which led to more popularity at the beginning of the speculator market. But that's just because I never got on board with the book.


    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?


I've read up until 1995 so far, and, really, my opinions haven't changed much. I think I enjoy X-Factor and Wolverine the most of the X-Books from the era. I really don't like the "newer" characters under the brand, though I've grown to like Rogue and Gambit. I can't stand the New Mutants/X-Force. I didn't see the point of character development like Mohawk Storm, Archangel, Psylocke/Kwannon and Ice Man taking a back seat as a teammate. It seemed like these things were done in the place of actually developing the characters.
I find many of the stories confusing and kind of boring.

I shouldn't come down so hard, I'm sure non-fans could say the same things about the Spider-Books, but, you asked!

Surprisingly, I did enjoy the Cyclops and Phoenix mini, when they went 2000 years in the future and helped raise Cable.


    Quote:
    PPP





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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    The only time I bought the X-Men was around '82-84. I liked the books ok but they weren't my favorites. I was just buying everything back then. The only other time I would buy X-Men comics was if they had Spider-Man in them. I also bought New Mutants at the time. I think I have the first 15 or 20 issues.


Aside from New Mutants, I didn't the X-books very often. I had this weird opposition to the X-Men because they were the most popular franchise. I wish I could say I was a teen-ager then, or better yet, ten years old, but I was in my early 20s. Somehow back then it made sense to me to oppose a book or franchise because it outsold any others.

Weird thing is, I never opposed Spider-Man when he was king of the newsstand. Somehow his victory was mine too, because he was the Marvel flagship character, and back then I was a Marvel true believer. I think I felt the X-Men weren't really Marvel. I know, that makes no sense. Best I can figure out, back when I was in my early 20s I was just a goofball.


    Quote:
    I don't know. They never appealed to me. Still don't. I like the 60's-mid 80's X-Men comics well enough, but that's more because they were 60's-mid 80's Marvel books.


I remember buying the early Claremont and Byrne X-Men comic. I remember liking the art, which must have had a lot to do with the inker, as I don't usually like Byrne's pencils.

Wait! I just remembered! Part of what I had against the new X-Men was their abandoning of Hank, Bobby, and Warren! I didn't mind the team having new members, but I wanted Hank, Bobby and Warren to be there too.

Jean's death annoyed me also. And then at some point Professor X went away or died or something.

I know I eventually jumped ship and became a New Titans fan instead. Wolfman and Perez were out X-ing the X-men, in my opinion.


    Quote:
    I didn't see the point of character development like Mohawk Storm, Archangel, Psylocke/Kwannon and Ice Man taking a back seat as a teammate. It seemed like these things were done in the place of actually developing the characters.


To this day I detest Archangel.







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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?



    Quote:
    The X-book that interested me most in the 80s and 90s was New Mutants. In fact that book, for me, epitomizes our time period. Cannonball, Subspot, Wolfsbane, Cypher, Magma, Magik, Warlock - especially Warlock - they are what I think of first, when I think of Marvel Comics in our time period. Them, and the artist most associated with them: Bill Sinkiewicz.


My brother loved the New Mutants, but I never got into it. I always meant to get them and see what I was missing.

PPP







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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450



    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?



    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?



    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?



    Quote:
    PPP


I did not collect X-men in the 90's though I bought them every once in a while when there was some kind of event. I couldn't afford to buy every issue. My focus was on the FF which was a single book compared to X-men which seemed like countless books.

I really don't know why X-men was so popular. It always seemed like it's own thing to me. Like there was Marvel and then there was X-men. It was like it's own club.

I like the All New X-men Claremont and Byrne really knocked it out of the park and Claremont was still knocking it out of the park for a while even after Byrne and him parted. But somewhere along the line the wheels sort of came off the book. Not sure when it was though. Certainly by the time Magneto was a good guy it felt like a completely different book to me.

PPP







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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626



    Quote:

      Quote:
      The only time I bought the X-Men was around '82-84. I liked the books ok but they weren't my favorites. I was just buying everything back then. The only other time I would buy X-Men comics was if they had Spider-Man in them. I also bought New Mutants at the time. I think I have the first 15 or 20 issues.



    Quote:
    Aside from New Mutants, I didn't the X-books very often. I had this weird opposition to the X-Men because they were the most popular franchise. I wish I could say I was a teen-ager then, or better yet, ten years old, but I was in my early 20s. Somehow back then it made sense to me to oppose a book or franchise because it outsold any others.



    Quote:
    Weird thing is, I never opposed Spider-Man when he was king of the newsstand. Somehow his victory was mine too, because he was the Marvel flagship character, and back then I was a Marvel true believer. I think I felt the X-Men weren't really Marvel. I know, that makes no sense. Best I can figure out, back when I was in my early 20s I was just a goofball.


LOL You're not the only goofball. I think part of my dislike for the X-Men was a bit of a contrarian streak. I think it was a bit of spite too, because I hadn't gotten in on the ground floor with the book, so I'd look at those high price tags and think, "Ehh, they're probably overrated!"


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I don't know. They never appealed to me. Still don't. I like the 60's-mid 80's X-Men comics well enough, but that's more because they were 60's-mid 80's Marvel books.



    Quote:
    I remember buying the early Claremont and Byrne X-Men comic. I remember liking the art, which must have had a lot to do with the inker, as I don't usually like Byrne's pencils.



    Quote:
    Wait! I just remembered! Part of what I had against the new X-Men was their abandoning of Hank, Bobby, and Warren! I didn't mind the team having new members, but I wanted Hank, Bobby and Warren to be there too.


Same here. I liked the All New X-Men, but enjoyed those three as well. Of course, I knew the Beast as an Avenger first. I had the Amazing Adventures(1979) reprints of the earliest X-Men stories, but I'm not sure if I made the connection with the hairless and hairy Beast. Reading the books became a chore when they replaced the All New X-Men with even newer X-Men. By the 90's it seemed liked instead of further developing the characters, they would just throw new ones at the readers.


    Quote:
    Jean's death annoyed me also. And then at some point Professor X went away or died or something.



    Quote:
    I know I eventually jumped ship and became a New Titans fan instead. Wolfman and Perez were out X-ing the X-men, in my opinion.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I didn't see the point of character development like Mohawk Storm, Archangel, Psylocke/Kwannon and Ice Man taking a back seat as a teammate. It seemed like these things were done in the place of actually developing the characters.



    Quote:
    To this day I detest Archangel.



You know, I went about this post all wrong, though. When this board started, I remember you suggested that we should try to focus on the good of the books, especially 90's books, instead of just ripping them(Maybe that's why we don't get a lot of 90's comics talk?). As I said in another post, I've read the Marvel books up to 1995 so far, so here are some thoughts:

As I said, I enjoyed The Adventures Of Cyclops and Phoenix better than I expected to. I'm not a fan of Cable and the whole "child taken to the future and then returned as an adult" angle in X-Men, or the FF, but this was a pretty good read.

Peter David's and JM DeMatteis' X-Factor work made me appreciate characters like Strong Guy and Havok.

I enjoy reading about Sam Guthrie's maturing into a team leader.




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    You know, I went about this post all wrong, though. When this board started, I remember you suggested that we should try to focus on the good of the books, especially 90's books, instead of just ripping them(Maybe that's why we don't get a lot of 90's comics talk?).


I think we've gotten past where we were when the board first started. Back then, at least on these boards, there was a lot of knee jerk "90s suck" bandwagoning. The 90s (supposedly) meant Liefeld at his worst and foil covers and big honking guns and testosterone amped up to the ludicrous maximum. I think at this point we all readily acknowledge there was a lot more than just that going on back then.

What I'm looking for now is balance and reasonableness. "The X-Men comic was the worst thing published in the last thousand years" would be silly to say. But if Archangel offended your sensibilities, let's hear about it. He offended mine. He still does. Warren Worthington was a character I used to care about, not only in the X-Men, but also in the Champions. He no longer exists. That annoys me.


    Quote:
    As I said, I enjoyed The Adventures Of Cyclops and Phoenix better than I expected to. I'm not a fan of Cable and the whole "child taken to the future and then returned as an adult" angle in X-Men, or the FF, but this was a pretty good read.


I'm a Cable fan, oddly enough. Big honking gun and all.


    Quote:
    Peter David's and JM DeMatteis' X-Factor work made me appreciate characters like Strong Guy and Havok.


Unfortunately I only know X-Factor in their 21st century incarnation, which is off topic for this board.


    Quote:
    I enjoy reading about Sam Guthrie's maturing into a team leader.


Sam Guthrie still matters to me.






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thjan

Moderator

Member Since: Wed Dec 23, 2009
Posts: 2,790




    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?


Yep, they were a big part of why I got into comics in a serious way. I got into X-Men and Spider-Man comics as a kid in the 90s, so I got more 90's X-Men comics than 80's, but I did get some 80's issues as well.


    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?


I would agree with America's Captain in that I think the soap opera and great relationships between the characters played a part in it. They actually had whole issues or large parts of issues devoted to just family moments and personal interactions, which I loved. I also think the 90's cartoon played a big part of it in the 90's. I know there are a whole lot of people that got into comics because of that cartoon(I got into the comics before the cartoon, but it definitely contributed to my fandom and was very enjoyable).

I also think all the very fun and cool characters played a big part. The X-Men were starting to get so many characters that people were interested in reading more about that they had to start doing off-shoots, multiple X-Men titles, and solo issues just so they could devote enough time to all the characters. They just could not fit all the great characters into one title and still do them justice.


    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?


I definitely still love those issues. The 90s and 80s were my favorite time periods for the X-Men. I often reread issues from those time periods.





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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,105


The X-Men could do no wrong in my eyes until a few things started to bother me. The first was the Mutant Massacre. I had liked the Morlocks and thought they had an interesting place in mutant lore - and then Claremont inexplicably killed most of them. Why? You tell me. Whatever Sinister intended by killing off dozens of mutants, I'll never know. Does anyone know? Even the creators?

Worse than the slaughter of the Morlocks was that Claremont unceremoniously sidelined two of my favorite characters on the book (Kitty and Kurt). Sidelining Colossus was something I could deal with, but even he deserved better, in my opinion. They moved Kitty/Kurt/Rachel over to Excalibur, but it didn't feel like an X-book. I had no reason to care about Captain Britain or Meggan, before or after the Excalibur team came together.

Still, there were some good X-Men issues after the massacre. It was around Inferno when I realized Claremont didn't care anymore. That event also got rid of Illyana, who was a character I also loved. Somewhere around that issue, Claremont stopped writing New Mutants, and to say I didn't care for the next two creative teams is an understatement. After the Jim Lee explosion, I drifted away and stopped caring.




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626


I disliked when they pulled Nightcrawler and Kitty Pride out of the X-Men and put them in Excalibur, too. It was like they split up all the characters that I liked into other books I didn't want to read and added new characters I didn't care about.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


It's funny Kitty and Nightcrawler are my brothers favorite X characters but he loved Excalibur. Guess he felt like the focus of the book was on them rather then have them one of many in the main book.

PPP





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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


I used to watch the cartoon too. It pretty darn good.

And you're right I think a whole generation of kids our age first learned about the X-men from the cartoon.

PPP





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zetadog




I began reading them in the late 80s. I actually started with the Classic X-Men reprints of the 70s issues. it took me a while to realize they were reprints from the 70s.


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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626



    Quote:

      Quote:
      You know, I went about this post all wrong, though. When this board started, I remember you suggested that we should try to focus on the good of the books, especially 90's books, instead of just ripping them(Maybe that's why we don't get a lot of 90's comics talk?).



    Quote:
    I think we've gotten past where we were when the board first started. Back then, at least on these boards, there was a lot of knee jerk "90s suck" bandwagoning. The 90s (supposedly) meant Liefeld at his worst and foil covers and big honking guns and testosterone amped up to the ludicrous maximum. I think at this point we all readily acknowledge there was a lot more than just that going on back then.



    Quote:
    What I'm looking for now is balance and reasonableness. "The X-Men comic was the worst thing published in the last thousand years" would be silly to say. But if Archangel offended your sensibilities, let's hear about it. He offended mine. He still does. Warren Worthington was a character I used to care about, not only in the X-Men, but also in the Champions. He no longer exists. That annoys me.


I get what you're saying. I just felt like I could've gone on and on about what I dislike about the books(I didn't even mention some of Claremont's repetitive dialogue choices) but hadn't touched on what I liked.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    I get what you're saying. I just felt like I could've gone on and on about what I dislike about the books(I didn't even mention some of Claremont's repetitive dialogue choices) but hadn't touched on what I liked.


Thus you're exhibiting exactly the spirit of balance and reasonableness I love to see here - or anywhere, really. I'm just a balance and reasonableness kind of guy.






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Happy Hogan 

Manager

Location: Northern Virginia
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,428



Yea, the best X-Men comics were in the late seventies. I think Chris Claremont and John Byrne both suffered from a kind of George Lucas syndrome. (That's when a creator has created good works in the past but seems unable to realize that not everything coming out of his head is now not gold.) I got over Claremont first, but still enjoying a lot of Byrne. (like his FF and Alpha Flight)

Along with 80's Claremonts long-windedness, sometimes self righteousness, preachyness, and repetitiveness, (how many different ways can you say bigotry is bad?) I was enjoying Claremont less and less.

But back when they were each working to prove themselves good creators, they came out together with gold.




America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Along with 80's Claremonts long-windedness, sometimes self righteousness, preachyness, and repetitiveness, (how many different ways can you say bigotry is bad?) I was enjoying Claremont less and less.


I often think Byrne might have served to curb Claremont's excesses. After all, Byrne is hardly shy. He would have spoken his mind.






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Whispering Hands





    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?


I started collecting comics in the early 90s after getting hooked by the X-men cartoon. The X-men were the only title I bought at first. Back then it was Uncanny and X-men and I would buy them every month. It was by far my favorite title and I didn't branch out until later in the 90s. I went back and bought a large portion of Claremont's 80s run and got caught up fast.


    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?


That's a good question I have often pondered. I think for one thing they are Marvel's greatest group of characters. By the 80s and 90s Claremont had really built the cast up and introduced many exciting X-men and villains. Also for me the cartoon was huge reason and I'm sure it was for others.

The great thing about the X-men at that time was they had the benefit of having mostly one vision and writer for almost 2 decades. Claremont was really able to define and develop the X-men's personalities and characteristics which helped to make them feel that much more three dimensional. After he left they slowly lost that vision and by the early 2000s I was definitely losing interest. I still collect at least one X-title to this day.


    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?


I still love a lot of Claremont's run for sure although the quirks in his writing style irritate me more now. Some of my favorite portions would be the Claremont/Byrne run. The Mutant Massacre up through the end of Claremont's run in 1991 are probably my favorite along with the Dark Phoenix Saga. I actually enjoyed the Outback period a lot. I would say the 80s and 90s are by far my favorite period for the X-men.

As far as the rest of the 90s goes, I was collecting this as it came out so there's a nostalgia there for me although some of it I'm not as crazy about as I once was. I still love Joe Kelly and Steven Seagle's short run in the late 90s and I think it really holds up. Fabian Nicieza's X-men run had some great issues here and there and Scott Lobdell's later work on the title was better. They both benefitted from having great artists for most of their runs-Romita, Kubert, Joe Mad. Also Peter David's X-factor was a good little run. I loved his 2000s revival.

The most stand out to me from the 90s era was definitely the Age Of Apocalypse. Probably my favorite crossover ever, and I was just so enthralled by the whole thing.

But basically if it weren't for 80s and 90s X-men I wouldn't be posting on this board most likely although I was a huge Turtles fan so I likely would have gotten into comics anyhow!




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Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Did you collect X-men comics in the 80's and/or 90's?



    Quote:
    Why do you think there was an explosion of popularity and variety of X-related titles at this time?



    Quote:
    Looking back do you still love these issues or not so much? If not, what time period of X-men comics do you prefer?



    Quote:
    PPP


I hate the X-Men. With all their alternate realities/futures and clones and phoenix entity stuff.

I actively root for characters like Cameron Hodge and Graydon Creed. Exterminate the mutants.


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