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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


Last week we talked about underrated comics of the 80's and 90's so it's only fair that we talk about overrated comics this week.

What comics did you buy in the 80's or 90's that were overrated?

What comics from this time period have you read since then and found they haven't aged well or were over-hyped?

PPP







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Whispering Hands





    Quote:
    Last week we talked about underrated comics of the 80's and 90's so it's only fair that we talk about overrated comics this week.



    Quote:
    What comics did you buy in the 80's or 90's that were overrated?



    Quote:
    What comics from this time period have you read since then and found they haven't aged well or were over-hyped?


I think the one that really sticks out for me is The Dark Knight Returns. I consider many Frank Miller stories of the 1980s to be some of my favorite comics of all time but this book at least as a story doesn't quite hold up for me. The art still blows me away to this day and there are some fantastic moments but I don't find it that enjoyable of a read. I can definitely see how groundbreaking it would have been in 1986 and I think part of the critical acclaim comes from that.


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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    I think the one that really sticks out for me is The Dark Knight Returns. I consider many Frank Miller stories of the 1980s to be some of my favorite comics of all time but this book at least as a story doesn't quite hold up for me. The art still blows me away to this day and there are some fantastic moments but I don't find it that enjoyable of a read. I can definitely see how groundbreaking it would have been in 1986 and I think part of the critical acclaim comes from that.


I'm with you on this one. I liked nothing about it except the art. It was basically "What if the Punisher wore a cape and cowl and was a billionaire?"







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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Last week we talked about underrated comics of the 80's and 90's so it's only fair that we talk about overrated comics this week.



    Quote:
    What comics did you buy in the 80's or 90's that were overrated?


Byrne's work. I didn't see the point of what he did with Superman and I don't think he really understood the Fantastic Four.

Superman was too powerful for the Marvel Universe, where Byrne had worked previously, but he wasn't too powerful for the DC Universe, which is where his stories took place. Byrne fixed what wasn't broken. Nor did Superman's parents need to still be alive, since Superman can travel time, which means he could have visited his parents in the past. And don't even get me started about the elimination of Clark as Superboy.

As for the Fantastic Four, Byrne's take on Reed Richards turned me off. He went for the stuffy, pipe-smoking college professor of the very first issues of the comic, completely ignoring the bulk of Stan and Jack's body of work, where Reed had morphed into something more along the lines of the 1950s scientific adventurer, who would have been highly athletic even without powers, a spelunker and a scuba diver, a skydiver and a rescue ranger, while still being a whiz in the laboratory.

Both comics died for me when Byrne took them over.






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Mikel Midnight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,557



    Quote:
    Superman was too powerful for the Marvel Universe, where Byrne had worked previously, but he wasn't too powerful for the DC Universe, which is where his stories took place. Byrne fixed what wasn't broken. Nor did Superman's parents need to still be alive, since Superman can travel time, which means he could have visited his parents in the past. And don't even get me started about the elimination of Clark as Superboy.


I disagree about Superman not being broken. The character had become overpowered and stodgy. Even the best writers could barely make an entertaining story about him. But I agree that his remake wasn't a success, because I think while he had a couple of good ideas he took them too far in the wrong direction, and ended up with a character which lacked the essential soul of the original.


    Quote:
    As for the Fantastic Four, Byrne's take on Reed Richards turned me off. He went for the stuffy, pipe-smoking college professor of the very first issues of the comic, completely ignoring the bulk of Stan and Jack's body of work, where Reed had morphed into something more along the lines of the 1950s scientific adventurer, who would have been highly athletic even without powers, a spelunker and a scuba diver, a skydiver and a rescue ranger, while still being a whiz in the laboratory.


Ah, I loved Byrne's take on Reed! Because while he had that 'absent minded professor' vibe, I totally got the impression that he was still an adventurer at heart; Byrne's "Reed Richards Rocket Club" story in WHAT IF totally communicated that (and I wish the characters had appeared on other occasions). Where I think Byrne fell flat was with Johnny Storm; what was important about Johnny was that he had matured, and left behind the brash teenager of the early issues to become a responsible young man. By returning him to basics, he made me not care about him any more, because all those years of characterisation went to waste.


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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,676


I was going to say the same thing. I think my problem was I didn't read it in its own time. At the time I suppose it was doing something that had never been done before. I read it later in the '90s after it had inspired a boatload of Batman-based Elseworlds tales. When I finally read TDKR it just seemed like yet another Elseworlds. Since it wasn't a shock to see Batman in another time or setting, I only had the story to go by. All I remember is Batman rolling around in a tank blowing people away and Superman being a super yes-man and fairly useless. I don't really like Miller's take on either character.

Even later I read his Batman: Year One and liked it much better.



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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626





    Quote:
    As for the Fantastic Four, Byrne's take on Reed Richards turned me off. He went for the stuffy, pipe-smoking college professor of the very first issues of the comic, completely ignoring the bulk of Stan and Jack's body of work, where Reed had morphed into something more along the lines of the 1950s scientific adventurer, who would have been highly athletic even without powers, a spelunker and a scuba diver, a skydiver and a rescue ranger, while still being a whiz in the laboratory.


I agree with you about Byrne's depiction of Reed being different, but it didn't bother me all that much because I really enjoyed the stories at the time. For me, the true Reed will always be the guy who was slugging it out with Doom in FF 200, but I also enjoyed Byrne's take.






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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,626


For me, it's mostly the X-Men books, but we discussed that a couple of weeks ago.


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450


I only read A handful of Superman issues from the 70s but they always seemed really close to the 60s Superman stories. Superman didnt have an overhaul it the 70s like Batman did and it showed. Superman comics were tired and outdated. Maybe Byrne should have done a reboot but something was needed.

I thiught the FF under Byrne was great. They are some of my favorite issues.

PPP





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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450



    Quote:
    I was going to say the same thing. I think my problem was I didn't read it in its own time. At the time I suppose it was doing something that had never been done before. I read it later in the '90s after it had inspired a boatload of Batman-based Elseworlds tales. When I finally read TDKR it just seemed like yet another Elseworlds. Since it wasn't a shock to see Batman in another time or setting, I only had the story to go by. All I remember is Batman rolling around in a tank blowing people away and Superman being a super yes-man and fairly useless. I don't really like Miller's take on either character.



    Quote:
    Even later I read his Batman: Year One and liked it much better.


I was going to say just about the same thing that I thought it was okay for what it was just another alternate version of Batman. I remember not liking the art and finding it confusing at times.

I even got The Dark Knight Strikes Again or whatever the sequel was called but that was unreadable.

I really like Batman Year One.

PPP






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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,103



    Quote:
    For me, it's mostly the X-Men books, but we discussed that a couple of weeks ago.

Agreed. I think a lot of people are sentimental for 90's X-Men, but let's face it: X-Men comics in that era were bad. The cartoon was good, but the comics were bad.

I also thought Death of Superman (which to be fair was my first adventure into DC) was really poorly done.





"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,676


That's interesting. While I thought the "Doomsday" story was really weak (giant monster pops up out of the ground and punches things for 7 issues then punches Superman to death), I thought the follow-up "World Without a Superman" and "Reign of the Supermen" which lasted the next 6 months were really enjoyable. And unlike all the big event comic copycats it inspired, it actually added toys to the toybox instead of just breaking the old ones. They obviously had Superman's return planned from the beginning so it kind of made sense in a comic booky way. It's just unfortunate that it inspired stuff like "Emerald Twilight" and "Maximum Clonage."



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Reverend Meteor







    Quote:
    Byrne's work. I didn't see the point of what he did with Superman and I don't think he really understood the Fantastic Four.


Honestly I think Byrne's Fantastic Four is probably the best comic run at Marvel from the 80's. His Alpha Flight was just as good and deserves some mention as one of the gems from the 80's.

If he didn't get the Fantastic Four he sure as heck improved them over something I didn't like. I like Byrne's version better than any other version of the characters.

One thing of Byrne's I thought was overrated was Byrne's Namor run. People complain about his FF or AWC coast runs but those weren't that bad. Namor was when he ran out of ideas and the art really suffered. Around the time the whole Master Khan/Super Skrull/Iron Fist storyline was winding down you could tell his drawing and his writing weren't doing so hot and there hasn't been a lot of things he's drawn after that I liked. But I did like his FF, Avengers West Coast and Alpha Flight runs.


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Reverend Meteor







    Quote:
    Byrne's work. I didn't see the point of what he did with Superman and I don't think he really understood the Fantastic Four.


Everything Image related (I think the 2000's had some Image titles I liked here and there but during the 90's...zilch)

Almost everything X-Men related in the 90's not written by Fabian Nicieza (and honestly some of his stuff on X-Men was bad). Oh but I loved X-Men 2099...use of the mutant concept with out the burden of clones and time traveling refuges and super regenerating midgets with memory problems.

Gruenwald's Captain America run. Some of it was good...but around that time the super soldier serum broke down it had gotten awful.

Namor




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