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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,451


Since the TF board is about as dead as Atari is, I figured I'd post this topic here.

Okay so Optimus Prime becomes the leader at the start of the Decepticon uprising and had the power to face Megatron. Okay so I can see him being considered the savior of the Autobots at this point.

Now then.....just how long did the war go on?

Well in the old cartoon, it went on for 5 million years at which point Cybertron is a wreck and its resources nearly gone. Optimus leads a mission to get new energon resources, they are intercepted and they crash on primitive Earth and lay dormant for another 4 million years.

Meanwhile, the war still grinds away on Cybertron in the old cartoon. Shockwave for all his power couldn't conquer the planet and apparently no one could step up to replace Prime. Where was Ultra Magnus?

earth year 1984, The TF's on Earth get reactivated and the war carries over to Earth for years.

By Earth year 2005, the Decepticons have won and taken the planet. Who knows how many Autobots were terminated in the process. Optimus is reduced to bases on each of the planet's moons and Autobot City on Earth.

Optimus was preparing for a final offensive to retake the planet and defeat Megatron when he had to go to Earth and make his great sacrifice in battle against Megatron.

Unicron attacks and Rodimus Prime arises and what does Rodimus do? FINISH what Optimus couldn't do.

1. Destroys Unicron.
2. Leads the Autobots and the Junkions to retake Cybertron in the confusion following Unicron's assault.
3. Over the course of a year Cybertron has been refortified and can repel any attack by the Decepticons who are in exile and dying until the Quintessons come for them.

Cybertron was slowly rebuilding and becoming more energy self sufficient under the command of Rodimus, who while compassionate and caring was able to make hard choices that Optimus couldn't such as blowing up a planet to keep its energon away from the Decepticons.

Optimus led his people in a war that he couldn't end for millions of years. He should have been replaced sooner.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,524



    Quote:
    Since the TF board is about as dead as Atari is, I figured I'd post this topic here.



    Quote:
    Okay so Optimus Prime becomes the leader at the start of the Decepticon uprising and had the power to face Megatron. Okay so I can see him being considered the savior of the Autobots at this point.



    Quote:
    Now then.....just how long did the war go on?



    Quote:
    Well in the old cartoon, it went on for 5 million years at which point Cybertron is a wreck and its resources nearly gone.


Five million years of war is unfathomable. I bet Captain America and Bucky could have done a better job.


    Quote:
    Optimus leads a mission to get new energon resources, they are intercepted and they crash on primitive Earth and lay dormant for another 4 million years.



    Quote:
    Meanwhile, the war still grinds away on Cybertron in the old cartoon. Shockwave for all his power couldn't conquer the planet and apparently no one could step up to replace Prime. Where was Ultra Magnus?



    Quote:
    earth year 1984, The TF's on Earth get reactivated and the war carries over to Earth for years.


Letting war spill over onto another world is not the Captain American way. (Bucky would have been sure to slit someone's throat so such a spill-over didn't happen.)


    Quote:
    By Earth year 2005, the Decepticons have won and taken the planet. Who knows how many Autobots were terminated in the process. Optimus is reduced to bases on each of the planet's moons and Autobot City on Earth.



    Quote:
    Optimus was preparing for a final offensive to retake the planet and defeat Megatron when he had to go to Earth and make his great sacrifice in battle against Megatron.


Optimus always seemed like an inspirational leader rather than a practical one. He needed a Bucky.


    Quote:
    Unicron attacks and Rodimus Prime arises and what does Rodimus do? FINISH what Optimus couldn't do.



    Quote:
    1. Destroys Unicron.
    2. Leads the Autobots and the Junkions to retake Cybertron in the confusion following Unicron's assault.
    3. Over the course of a year Cybertron has been refortified and can repel any attack by the Decepticons who are in exile and dying until the Quintessons come for them.


Rodimus! I should have looked the name up sooner in Wikipedia. So that's were our pal Rodimus got his user name.


    Quote:
    Cybertron was slowly rebuilding and becoming more energy self sufficient under the command of Rodimus, who while compassionate and caring was able to make hard choices that Optimus couldn't such as blowing up a planet to keep its energon away from the Decepticons.


That's the trouble with inspirational leaders. Sometimes they make up for it by being SO inspirational that talented practical types (like Bucky) flock to their banner and do the dirty work.


    Quote:
    Optimus led his people in a war that he couldn't end for millions of years. He should have been replaced sooner.


I agree.






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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,677



    Quote:
    Rodimus! I should have looked the name up sooner in Wikipedia. So that's were our pal Rodimus got his user name.

You mean his avatar wasn't a clue for you? ;\)


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,043




    Quote:
    Since the TF board is about as dead as Atari is, I figured I'd post this topic here.



    Quote:
    Okay so Optimus Prime becomes the leader at the start of the Decepticon uprising and had the power to face Megatron. Okay so I can see him being considered the savior of the Autobots at this point.



    Quote:
    Now then.....just how long did the war go on?



    Quote:
    Well in the old cartoon, it went on for 5 million years at which point Cybertron is a wreck and its resources nearly gone. Optimus leads a mission to get new energon resources, they are intercepted and they crash on primitive Earth and lay dormant for another 4 million years.



    Quote:
    Meanwhile, the war still grinds away on Cybertron in the old cartoon. Shockwave for all his power couldn't conquer the planet and apparently no one could step up to replace Prime. Where was Ultra Magnus?



    Quote:
    earth year 1984, The TF's on Earth get reactivated and the war carries over to Earth for years.



    Quote:
    By Earth year 2005, the Decepticons have won and taken the planet. Who knows how many Autobots were terminated in the process. Optimus is reduced to bases on each of the planet's moons and Autobot City on Earth.



    Quote:
    Optimus was preparing for a final offensive to retake the planet and defeat Megatron when he had to go to Earth and make his great sacrifice in battle against Megatron.



    Quote:
    Unicron attacks and Rodimus Prime arises and what does Rodimus do? FINISH what Optimus couldn't do.



    Quote:
    1. Destroys Unicron.
    2. Leads the Autobots and the Junkions to retake Cybertron in the confusion following Unicron's assault.
    3. Over the course of a year Cybertron has been refortified and can repel any attack by the Decepticons who are in exile and dying until the Quintessons come for them.



    Quote:
    Cybertron was slowly rebuilding and becoming more energy self sufficient under the command of Rodimus, who while compassionate and caring was able to make hard choices that Optimus couldn't such as blowing up a planet to keep its energon away from the Decepticons.



    Quote:
    Optimus led his people in a war that he couldn't end for millions of years. He should have been replaced sooner.


You don't know man. You weren't there! He did the best he could.





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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,451


and by the time Season 3 was airing, Optimus was dead.

I speak of ULTRA MAGNUS, he's an excellent soldier and tactician and while he does have the ability to be the leader of the Autobots he doesn't want it.

He served as soldier taking orders from Rodimus Prime and also giving Rodimus advice and pep talks now and then whenever Rodimus' resolve would waiver.

When Rodimus lost the matrix and reverted to Hot Rod, Magnus stepped up after Hot Rod ran away and refused to get the matrix back. Rodimus returned at the end and Magnus became second in command again.

Optimus gets restored and Magnus again remains second in command and main soldier.

As an example of Magnus' ability as a soldier and his practicality, in the episode where they had to blow up a planet to keep the Decepticons from getting its energy supply, Magnus and Sandstorm get to the core and Magnus comments how he's never seen anything so beautiful ever the instantly asks to be given the bombs to set.

The problems that fans had with Rodimus Prime

1. He wasn't Optimus. Rodimus was more of a practical leader, while he did inspire the troops it wasn't on the same level as Optimus. he wasn't a cookie cutter/Captain America like Optimus was.

2. Inconsistent portrayal, some episodes he's calm and confident others he's crying like a wimp.

3. He wasn't Optimus. Fans didn't give him a fair chance.

4. All the "traumatized kiddies" whining to their parents about Optimus dying on the movie screen and again at home after the Quintessons reanimated him into Zombie Optimus for an episode. Hasbro caved into the demands of the parent groups and Optimus was restored.

Now in the comics, cartoons and movies ever since if at anytime Optimus appears to perish he will be back.

G1 Marvel comic he perished at least twice and returned

Dreamwave he was damaged by Shockwave and offline for repair but would be back if Dreamwave wasn't embezzled into oblivion

Armada cartoon: Prime is vaporized but later returns

Beast Wars: blown up at the end of Season 1, rebuilt in Season 2, upgraded in Season 3.

Beast Machines: perished at the end of Season 1, brought himself back in Season 2, perished at the end with Megatron to reformat Cybertron

Bayformers movies, these movies were trash but wasn't he briefly dead in the second one?


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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,143



    Quote:
    Since the TF board is about as dead as Atari is, I figured I'd post this topic here.



    Quote:
    Okay so Optimus Prime becomes the leader at the start of the Decepticon uprising and had the power to face Megatron. Okay so I can see him being considered the savior of the Autobots at this point.



    Quote:
    Now then.....just how long did the war go on?



    Quote:
    Well in the old cartoon, it went on for 5 million years at which point Cybertron is a wreck and its resources nearly gone. Optimus leads a mission to get new energon resources, they are intercepted and they crash on primitive Earth and lay dormant for another 4 million years.

When did they say the war lasted 5 million years before Optimus and Megatron crashed on Earth? So by 1984 it had been raging for 9 million years? That's really quite absurd when you think about it.

The Decepticons were supposed to be warriors and Autobots the scientists or something right? So it was a losing battle for the Bots to begin with. Maybe when Orion Pax became Optimus he turned defeat into stalemate and that's the best anyone could hope for?


    Quote:
    Meanwhile, the war still grinds away on Cybertron in the old cartoon. Shockwave for all his power couldn't conquer the planet and apparently no one could step up to replace Prime. Where was Ultra Magnus?

Is it because Prime had the Matrix that no other Autobot leader could emerge?


    Quote:
    earth year 1984, The TF's on Earth get reactivated and the war carries over to Earth for years.



    Quote:
    By Earth year 2005, the Decepticons have won and taken the planet. Who knows how many Autobots were terminated in the process. Optimus is reduced to bases on each of the planet's moons and Autobot City on Earth.

He was outnumbered again. Once the 'Cons got the space bridge working they had unlimited reinforcements. Prime had none, except help from the humans.


    Quote:
    Optimus was preparing for a final offensive to retake the planet and defeat Megatron when he had to go to Earth and make his great sacrifice in battle against Megatron.



    Quote:
    Unicron attacks and Rodimus Prime arises and what does Rodimus do? FINISH what Optimus couldn't do.



    Quote:
    1. Destroys Unicron.

Well sure, but Unicron never appeared while Optimus was around so he didn't have a chance. In the comic, Optimus used the Matrix to kill Unicron.

    Quote:
    2. Leads the Autobots and the Junkions to retake Cybertron in the confusion following Unicron's assault.
    3. Over the course of a year Cybertron has been refortified and can repel any attack by the Decepticons who are in exile and dying until the Quintessons come for them.

I would say it helped that Optimus single handedly took out Megatron and the Seekers, some of the most powerful Decepticons. Sure they were rebuilt by Unicron but Cyclonus and Scourge didn't seem to be that effective.


    Quote:
    Cybertron was slowly rebuilding and becoming more energy self sufficient under the command of Rodimus, who while compassionate and caring was able to make hard choices that Optimus couldn't such as blowing up a planet to keep its energon away from the Decepticons.

Of course Rodimus succumbed to the hate plague while Optimus didn't.


    Quote:
    Optimus led his people in a war that he couldn't end for millions of years. He should have been replaced sooner.

Perhaps but, who would have stepped up to the plate? Rodimus wasn't ready and Magnus didn't seem to have what it took.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,677



    Quote:
    When did they say the war lasted 5 million years before Optimus and Megatron crashed on Earth? So by 1984 it had been raging for 9 million years? That's really quite absurd when you think about it.

In "War Dawn," the Arielbots went back 9 million years to when Orion Pax became Optimus Prime and the war started. Frankly, Cybertronians are almost godlike in their durability and longevity. Their concept of time is vastly different than us mere mortals.

As for Prime's leadership, their entire war wasn't really fought like any of our wars. Neither side seemed very committed to killing the other. And this is one of the reasons why everybody was so horrified when Prime died in the movie. Before that, they tended to shoot wildly and when the rare shot connected with the target, it was usually a "flesh" wound. Of course, this was kiddified 80s cartoonland, where every Cobra/GIJoe pilot parachuted to safety, yadayada.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,524



    Quote:

    In "War Dawn," the Arielbots went back 9 million years to when Orion Pax became Optimus Prime and the war started. Frankly, Cybertronians are almost godlike in their durability and longevity. Their concept of time is vastly different than us mere mortals.


I would trade my human body for a Cybertronian one in a heartbeat.


    Quote:
    As for Prime's leadership, their entire war wasn't really fought like any of our wars. Neither side seemed very committed to killing the other. And this is one of the reasons why everybody was so horrified when Prime died in the movie. Before that, they tended to shoot wildly and when the rare shot connected with the target, it was usually a "flesh" wound. Of course, this was kiddified 80s cartoonland, where every Cobra/GIJoe pilot parachuted to safety, yadayada.


Still, a game of chess that went on for five million years would be pretty disappointing and frustrating. I mean, come on, win already! But as Superman's Pal has suggested, maybe just not losing was pretty impressive.







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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,677



    Quote:

      Quote:

      In "War Dawn," the Arielbots went back 9 million years to when Orion Pax became Optimus Prime and the war started. Frankly, Cybertronians are almost godlike in their durability and longevity. Their concept of time is vastly different than us mere mortals.



    Quote:
    I would trade my human body for a Cybertronian one in a heartbeat.

I dunno. I doubt energon tastes as great as a pizza.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      As for Prime's leadership, their entire war wasn't really fought like any of our wars. Neither side seemed very committed to killing the other. And this is one of the reasons why everybody was so horrified when Prime died in the movie. Before that, they tended to shoot wildly and when the rare shot connected with the target, it was usually a "flesh" wound. Of course, this was kiddified 80s cartoonland, where every Cobra/GIJoe pilot parachuted to safety, yadayada.



    Quote:
    Still, a game of chess that went on for five million years would be pretty disappointing and frustrating. I mean, come on, win already! But as Superman's Pal has suggested, maybe just not losing was pretty impressive.

Now imagine a chess game where neither side was capturing the opponent's pieces, but instead, just moving around the board. Frustrating, indeed.

I'm not even sure you can call that a chess game.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,451


The episode War Dawn established that the war went for 5 million years before they crashed on Earth and were dormant for another 4 million.

The Autobots have too much reverence regarding the Matrix and they were way too codependent on Optimus Prime always being there to lead and inspire.

Ultra Magnus was too content to be a soldier and had too much self doubt about his own ability to lead when clearly he is a good leader.

Despite Optimus training his troops none had the ability to stand in his place in terms of leadership or physical power except Magnus.

Grimlock was built on Earth in the cartoon and was too arrogant and dimwitted.

As to Rodimus succumbing the plague, it was spread by touch, only takes a few moments of contact to get infected, it is an irresistible infection that drives the subject mad. Optimus was still "dead" when Rodimus was infected and soon after revival he gets coated in a special metal (adamantium for lack of another term) that can resist heat/radiation and the shockwaves of a supernova star explosion, at this point Optimus is indestructible which is a good thing since the Matrix was drained to save the cosmos.

Cyclonus and Scourge are supposed to be second only to Galvatron in power, yet Cyclonus' mindless loyalty and Scourge's fear of Galvatron kept them in line. Cyclonus would have made a better leader.

The Autobots are way too dependent on playing follow the leader while the Decepticons serve mainly out of fear of their leader.


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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,852


Optimus is usually too optimistic. He has plenty of chances to finish off Megatron or win the war over the years, but never takes them. His optimism misguides him to think he can still reason with Megatron. The result is needlessly prolonging the war and more death and destruction. I have seen this outside of the G1 and in other versions of the character. I think that is one reason they made the film version of Optimus more ruthless. He is supposed to be more realistic and jaded by the war.

At the same time Megatron is no better or possibly even worse. Depending on the incarnation Megatron is either an ex-gladiator or military leader who is willing to cross mortal lines that impede Optimus. He is supposed to have the ultra-ruthless and powerful warriors. Yet he can't defeat what amounts to a peaceful scientist and a bunch of civilians. He won't even scrape Starscream despite all of the latter's betrayals. Even the scenarios where he pretty much wins the war he has lost so much it is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Optimus is pretty much the perfect leader for peaceful times. Less so in military times. Megatron though it just incompetent all around.


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