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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139


Back in the 90s, I was horrified by the bombastic spectacle that became Marvel, as epitomized by Ghost Rider, Punisher, and Wolverine, along with Cable and Deadpool (who weren't partners yet). Big guns, foil covers, snarling faces. It just wasn't anything I recognized.

Fast forward to 2017, and I find I gravitate to the kind of stories epitomized by the forementioned. I'm buying Cable, All-New Wolverine, and Punisher, along with Weapon X, and will probably buy the upcoming Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider one-shot. I may at some point go back to buying Deadpool. (I just don't like the current story line.) And I am chomping at the bit to buy Weapon H! Also I'll probably buy the classic Wolverine comic when it starts again.

I don't exactly know what changed about me. I know that 20-25 years ago I was in many ways a different person. But also I've seen so many superhero movies now. What seemed absurdly bombastic 20-25 years ago no longer seems like that any more, because I've seen and heard such incredible spectacles. Also I think the art nowadays is a little toned down compared to the wildest of the 90s. They aren't going for neon any more. I think the neon aesthetic would still bug me even today. (Although today we have lenticular covers - which I don't buy if I can help it.)

But also I've been subjected to the 21st century writers and been so disillusioned by what actually sells. So much nauseating egocentric writing. At least back in the 90s, the hero of the book was supposed to be impressive both inside and out and have some sort of code that was diligently followed. The Punisher would die himself before allowing an innocent to die and would surrender rather than lift a finger against a cop or soldier. That's a code. I could rely on that. I knew who this guy was. And you know what? He still has that same code. Back in the 90s, Spider-Man was still Spider-Man as I'd known him for 20+ years. Doctor Strange was still Doctor Strange. I still recognized these guys. Today I don't recognize them. Thor was still worthy back then. Nobody back then thought making Cap a Nazi was a great idea.

So give me big guns, long metal claws, fiery infernos, penance stares. Just be true to the characters. Don't change them to fit your story. Change your story instead.






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Mikel Midnight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,503



    Quote:
    So give me big guns, long metal claws, fiery infernos, penance stares. Just be true to the characters. Don't change them to fit your story. Change your story instead.


The 90's were the era that made me feel out of touch with modern comic readers. Things have slightly improved since then, but I consider this an era of Marvel best forgotten.




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,005


Generally, that's how I am too, but there are some exceptions, and I really blame most of the bad 90s on those Image guys.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Nose Norton


Location: Plainville
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,017


When it comes to 90's comics, I get turned off more by bad writing than bad concepts. I can deal with both from 70's comics because that was my childhood but 90's comics seemed to take themselves more seriously which makes their flops less charming.
I had been reading the Marvel Universe from the beginning since 2007 and got to mid-1996 about 6 months ago but haven't read a comic since. However, I have to say that I did enjoy Wolverine, Ghost Rider and Punisher. I didn't read them when they were published but these three books(or more) were not ones that felt like a chore to read during my read-through.
There were some great Punisher stories in the 90's though they tended to not be very memorable. While I didn't care for concepts like Punisher is "dead"/there are 3 new Punishers or Punisher as the head of a crime family, the stories could still be entertaining. That's the problem with a Punisher on-going. They either tell the same stories from the 70's over and over or they take the character in directions that don't work.
The Wolverine series was always solid. I don't remember it being too over the top though I think they did go to the Madripoor well too often.
Ghost Rider was for the most part solid, especially when Mackie was writing. It had the typical Mackie faults but was still a good read.
I don't think any of these books were trailblazers storywise like the X-Men and Daredevil were in the early 80's but they weren't bad.

Cable I did not like. While I have grown to enjoy some X-Men runs from the 90's and even the Cable character around the time that X-Man showed up, I never understood why he was so popular.
I haven't gotten to any Deadpool stories that would show the character he has become yet.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Generally, that's how I am too, but there are some exceptions, and I really blame most of the bad 90s on those Image guys.


Always it's the ones who only want to use Marvel as a stepping stone. Same thing has happened this century. The superstars show up and all they really want to do is make their mark. They make a big mess and then they leave. But I don't remember it being as bad in the 90s as it is today. I mean, sure, we had Heroes Reborn, but that was never more than an extended "What If" event. It came and it went and the old status quo reasserted itself. I actually liked some of the ideas. Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, Tony Stark, and Bruce Banner all being connected made sense to me. It set up a structure that I was interested to see explored. Also the big "What If" event established a break in the original flow that allowed Tony Stark to sort of reboot when the event was over. Prior to the event his book was almost a total loss.






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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,681


My brother read Punisher and I would leaf through it. I was okay with a hero who kills but I found the stories a little dry sometimes. Not enough superhero silliness for me.

My friend read Ghost Rider and I would read some of those, I liked the mystical stuff but still never became a huge fan. O liked the art.

I did collect Wolverine for a while I'm the 90s, when his sidekick was Jubilee. Great Kubert art. I think Fatal Attractions when he lost the Adamantium was my entry point, but I backfilled some of that run.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with these guys, but then I was a Lobo fan too. To me the worse stuff was the Clone Saga, Heroes Reborn, DC junk like Extreme Justice.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Back in the 90s, I was horrified by the bombastic spectacle that became Marvel, as epitomized by Ghost Rider, Punisher, and Wolverine, along with Cable and Deadpool (who weren't partners yet). Big guns, foil covers, snarling faces. It just wasn't anything I recognized.


Don't forget Venom.

Hated all of them. Eventually I warmed up to Deadpool when Joe Kelly wrote him. But as originally written Wade was horrible.


    Quote:
    Fast forward to 2017, and I find I gravitate to the kind of stories epitomized by the forementioned. I'm buying Cable, All-New Wolverine, and Punisher, along with Weapon X, and will probably buy the upcoming Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider one-shot. I may at some point go back to buying Deadpool. (I just don't like the current story line.) And I am chomping at the bit to buy Weapon H! Also I'll probably buy the classic Wolverine comic when it starts again.



    Quote:
    I don't exactly know what changed about me. I know that 20-25 years ago I was in many ways a different person. But also I've seen so many superhero movies now. What seemed absurdly bombastic 20-25 years ago no longer seems like that any more, because I've seen and heard such incredible spectacles. Also I think the art nowadays is a little toned down compared to the wildest of the 90s. They aren't going for neon any more. I think the neon aesthetic would still bug me even today. (Although today we have lenticular covers - which I don't buy if I can help it.)



    Quote:
    But also I've been subjected to the 21st century writers and been so disillusioned by what actually sells. So much nauseating egocentric writing. At least back in the 90s, the hero of the book was supposed to be impressive both inside and out and have some sort of code that was diligently followed. The Punisher would die himself before allowing an innocent to die and would surrender rather than lift a finger against a cop or soldier. That's a code. I could rely on that. I knew who this guy was. And you know what? He still has that same code. Back in the 90s, Spider-Man was still Spider-Man as I'd known him for 20+ years. Doctor Strange was still Doctor Strange. I still recognized these guys. Today I don't recognize them. Thor was still worthy back then. Nobody back then thought making Cap a Nazi was a great idea.



    Quote:
    So give me big guns, long metal claws, fiery infernos, penance stares. Just be true to the characters. Don't change them to fit your story. Change your story instead.








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