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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
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I prefer Duncan. Adrian Paul I feel has better acting capacity then Lambert and his character had more screen time for more development.

Lambert did a good job at showing the emotional pain of being immortal, somthing that Paul as Duncan didn't deal with quite as much but when he did you could feel his pain. However Duncan always felt that tomorrow was a chance to get things better. Connor wasn't always quite the optimist.

Another great character the series brought in was Methos, the oldest immortal, 5000+ years old. Yet he acts like an every day man who has seen it all and then some yet it doesn't go to his head. he acts humble and states he isn't a wise man or a Buddha or any such thing. Also a master strategist, and manipulator who was great at mixing truth and lies. A good ally to have but if he ever decided to go back to being a murdering warlord, or a world conqueror I have no doubt he could have.

Joe Dawson and the Watchers. An interesting concept, but Joe basically becomes the equivalent of Uatu in that he must basically toss the non-interference oath aside.

The concept of both Light and Dark Quickenings that can literally change the personal of the immortal that absorbs either one.

Darius the conquering warlord kills a holy man and the quickening changes him and he becomes a peace preaching monk.

Duncan: takes in a Dark Quickening in Season 4 and others must scramble to cleanse him or kill him. It was later retconned in a comic miniseries that Connor took in a dark quickening when he took out Kurgan and had to defeat Kurgan in a battle of the minds as it were to cleanse himself.

The Eiffel Tower: the world's biggest lightning rod \:\)

Amanda: truly the catwoman character of the show.

The 100th episode giving us the Four Horseman. So nicely done.


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The Black Guardian

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1. I generally prefer TV over movies when it comes to storytelling and character development.
2. There are few movies as awful as the Highlander movies.
3. The writing on the Highlander series was better.
4. Lambert is a pretty poor actor.
5. Paul is a bit better.
6. Duncan was more likeable.

So yeah... Duncan.

But I remember having the opposite opinion back in the day because I thought Paul was too much of a "pretty boy."


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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I've actually never watched the Highlander movies. I used to watch the tv show though.





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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    I've actually never watched the Highlander movies.


The only one to watch is the first one. Skip all the others. They add nothing to anything. But the first one is cool. Just remember when watching it that when it came out, the TV show didn't exist, so the concept of a hero who kills his opponents and takes their life force was brand new. A villain doing this would have been par for the course. But a hero? This had never been seen before.

Also the scenery is beautiful, the songs by Queen add majesty, and Sean Connery is brilliant, as is Clarence John Brown III, who plays the Kurgan.






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America's Captain 

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Christopher Lambert is an actor I love to see. I will watch a movie purely because he's in it. So I guess I pick him.

Nevertheless, Adrian Paul was very good in the role he was assigned in the TV show. Duncan is darker, more brooding than Connor. More closed off emotionally. More taciturn.










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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,059


Yes the first film was and is unique. But the way it ended was meant to be the end.

The second film was the obligatory sequel and both regular and director cut version that omits planet zeist were awful

Movie 3 was basically the script and plot of the first with some revisions but it changed the date of Brenda Wyatt from the second film, thus negating the second film, but it did not link to the TV series.

Highlander Endgame what kills this already mediocre film is the bad editing. There is a theatrical, cable version and dvd version all with confusing differences. Also the premise of the villain having the most kills of all active immortals was weak. Duncan struck down several ancient immortals in the series so this villain should not have been an issue. We also got the fan service fight of Connor vs Duncan

Highlander the Source. This movie is so bad it makes all other Highlander​ film.s look like Shakespeare. It skipped theaters and aired on the Syfy channel. Duncan, Joe and method weren't originally going to be in it but got added in. All involved agree this feeble movie did not happen. If you see this movie you will be sorry.

I would rather watch plan nine from outer space, blade Trinity, ghost Rider 2, Star trek FIVE, all Friday the 13th movies, all the Freddy kreuger movies, Godzilla vs megalon, Ultraman powered, wing Commander, super Mario brothers, mortal Kombat annihilation, hawk the Slayer, the first dungeon and dragons movie, Mars attacks, battleship, clue, and even the lost in space movie then watch Highlander Five the Source



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Ancient One

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And that one is the original Highlander film.

The other films and the tv show were dross.

Put me down for Connor.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,059


The TV series was fine. It had a rough start for half of season 1 then found its legs and got moving.

It also expanded certain parts of the Highlander Mythos and made a few changes to immortals powers from the movie

1. In the movie the Kurgan takes a clip from an uzi and doesn't drop. In the TV series a wound that kills a mortal renders an immortal unconscious or "dead" until they finish regeneration.

2. The movie states Holy Ground is a tradition.....okay.....a bit vague.

Season 5 of the TV series had an episode that revealed there is a legend that two immortals fought in a holy temple.....right before the volcano exploded and destroyed Pompeii. At the end of the ep the villain of the week is beheaded off holy ground but near and old church. One of the lightning strikes hit the cross and it glowed ominously. Duncan then decided that leaving the area was a good idea \:\)

3. Light and Dark quickenings: the immortal warlord Darius kills an immortal holy man and the "light quickening" changed Darius into a man of peace who tried to change the world with prayer and sermon.

Dark Quickening: take in too much evil and you overload. An old Indian immortal friend of Duncan who was way older then Duncan had the holy duty of taking evil into himself to save others. He took in too much and went evil. Duncan took his head and the Dark Quickening corrupted Duncan for a bit until Methos helped cleanse him.

4. A pre immortal still ages and apparently can get sick and maimed before getting killed and their power activates. However old injuries and scars from their mortal life will remain.

However pre immortals cannot have children, just like immortals cannot.

5. The Watchers: adding them helped the series as it gave the immortals a group that had renegade mortals among them that knew how to track and destroy them. Immortals cannot sense mortals after all.

6. Immortal Fights are one on one. At first believed to be a point of honor, however the Season 1 episode that brought in Amanda and the 100th episode showed that the no matter who does the fighting, the quickening will ONLY go to the one that does the beheading.

In Season 1 Duncan is beating the villain, then Amanda swooped and took the villains head and thus his power went to her.

Season 5: Two of the Horseman attack Duncan, if Duncan kills one the other gets him while he is down from the quickening. Duncan takes the fight to a bridge, beheads one and dives off the bridge as the other moved in to kill him. The power followed Duncan into the water and ignored the other immortal.

Also some episodes show that if an immortal loses their head by any means the quickening power will emerge from them. If an immortal is close by the power goes to them, if not it dissipates and allegedly returns to the source or wherever it is the immortals come from.

7. the origins of the immortals....this REALLY should have been the main story arc of season 5 and 6 if necessary. No aliens or the other junk we've received from the movies.

8. Connor Macleod: he appeared in the pilot episode, was referenced a few times and nothing more. They should have had the last story arc of the series be about Connor's demise at the blade of an evil immortal and Duncan going after the villain. that would have been far better then the 4th movie was.


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Ancient One

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    Quote:
    The TV series was fine. It had a rough start for half of season 1 then found its legs and got moving.


I didn't get very far with the tv show. The first episode was so uncompromisingly bad on every level - there's literally nothing good about it with the sole exception of Queen's music - that I nearly gave up there and then. I forced myself to watch a couple more episodes on the belief that it HAD to get better because it couldn't possibly get any worse, but I was wrong. It just didn't get better. So I stopped watching.

Highlander is one of those rare franchises where subsequent instalments have not only added nothing of consequence to the original, but actually detracted from it.

For example, in the original film we find out exactly what 'the prize' they're fighting for is: To become mortal, to be able to do all the things that mortals do, and Connor gains the ability to read others' thoughts, an ability he vows to use to help bring peace to the world.

That was a good, strong ending. It subverted expectations (a DEpowering rather than an empowering), and still managed to deliver a happy ending for the good guys.

In the series, the prize is to gain the power of all the immortals who ever lived and be able to rule the world forever. Which was just...boring. Plus of course, it completely undermines the ending of the film. So...no thank you.

For my money, the only way they could have continued with Highlander after the first film was to have set the series - or films, or whatever - in the past.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,059


Season 1 started to get better with the episode when they brought in Darius the Monk and the immortal Grayson as the villain of the episode.

The season 1 finale where we lost Darius and the Watchers/Hunters were brought in improved the show.

As to the PRIZE, well we seem to be covering that in the other thread


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,285




    Quote:

      Quote:
      The TV series was fine. It had a rough start for half of season 1 then found its legs and got moving.



    Quote:
    I didn't get very far with the tv show. The first episode was so uncompromisingly bad on every level - there's literally nothing good about it with the sole exception of Queen's music - that I nearly gave up there and then. I forced myself to watch a couple more episodes on the belief that it HAD to get better because it couldn't possibly get any worse, but I was wrong. It just didn't get better. So I stopped watching.


I don't think the show holds up today but I think I liked the series from season 2 and on (ok I'm not sure I ever watched the last season). Once Duncan's girlfriend died, Richie became an immortal and Duncan moves to Europe I liked the show a bit more.



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The Black Guardian

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Hmm... I found Connor to be much darker and broodier. Duncan was more romance novel material. Yes, he'd pout now and then, but then he'd usually be smiling and joking by the end of each episode. Connor was downright morbid, until he got his HEA.


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Ancient One

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    Quote:
    Season 1 started to get better with the episode when they brought in Darius the Monk and the immortal Grayson as the villain of the episode.



    Quote:
    The season 1 finale where we lost Darius and the Watchers/Hunters were brought in improved the show.


I'll take your word that it gets better. The consensus does seem to be that it was better than the films (Although, I imagine that wouldn't be difficult to achieve).

Unfortunately, my experience of the handful of episodes I watched was so bad that a herd of wild horses couldn't drag me back to watch another. It was that dreadful.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:

      Quote:
      Season 1 started to get better with the episode when they brought in Darius the Monk and the immortal Grayson as the villain of the episode.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        The season 1 finale where we lost Darius and the Watchers/Hunters were brought in improved the show.



    Quote:
    I'll take your word that it gets better. The consensus does seem to be that it was better than the films (Although, I imagine that wouldn't be difficult to achieve).



    Quote:
    Unfortunately, my experience of the handful of episodes I watched was so bad that a herd of wild horses couldn't drag me back to watch another. It was that dreadful.


It was 90's bad. Like you could watch it back then and not be bothered because almost everything was bad back then. But watching it now would probably be horrible.



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Ancient One

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    Quote:
    It was 90's bad. Like you could watch it back then and not be bothered because almost everything was bad back then. But watching it now would probably be horrible.


No, I watched it back then, and it bothered me.

You could make a list of all the things NOT to do when you're making a tv show, and that pilot episode ticks all the boxes, plus a few boxes you didn't even know existed.

Bad plotting, bad writing, bad dialogue, bad acting, a lead character who's just a watered down cypher of a better character, every cliché under the sun including a kid sidekick, poor direction, plot holes, an eye-rolling, overly melodramatic super-villain in a hockey mask, beefcake shots, cheesecake shots, a plodding score (apart from the Queen stings), an opening title sequence that looked like it was thrown together in an hour by two fourteen year olds on a Sinclair ZX spectrum...

You're right: I can't imagine what it would be like trying to watch it today!


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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    I would rather watch plan nine from outer space, blade Trinity, ghost Rider 2, Star trek FIVE, all Friday the 13th movies, all the Freddy kreuger movies, Godzilla vs megalon, Ultraman powered, wing Commander, super Mario brothers, mortal Kombat annihilation, hawk the Slayer, the first dungeon and dragons movie, Mars attacks, battleship, clue, and even the lost in space movie then watch Highlander Five the Source


I liked the Lost in Space movie.






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America's Captain 

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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    For my money, the only way they could have continued with Highlander after the first film was to have set the series - or films, or whatever - in the past.


Which would have been the easiest thing in the world to do. Even the fairly recent past, like World War 2. I would have loved a Highlander series set in World War 2.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:


      Quote:
      It was 90's bad. Like you could watch it back then and not be bothered because almost everything was bad back then. But watching it now would probably be horrible.



    Quote:
    No, I watched it back then, and it bothered me.



    Quote:
    You could make a list of all the things NOT to do when you're making a tv show, and that pilot episode ticks all the boxes, plus a few boxes you didn't even know existed.


You do get that most pilot episodes are kind of a rough draft right? Usually a show tweaks a few things after a pilot episode (sometimes actors get replaced). And usually in seasons 2 and 3 a show will iron out a lot of stuff fans don't respond to.

I don't think anyone should jump to a conclusion based on a pilot episode is my point. If you watched the next few (and I don't even remember them) then your point stands. Personally I thought seasons 2 and 3 were way better than season 1. I liked the show once they killed off his annoying girlfriend.

But Highlander certainly had it's share of crappy episodes particularly in the early days. No arguing that.



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Ancient One

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    Quote:
    I don't think anyone should jump to a conclusion based on a pilot episode is my point. If you watched the next few (and I don't even remember them) then your point stands. Personally I thought seasons 2 and 3 were way better than season 1. I liked the show once they killed off his annoying girlfriend.


Yes, I always give a new show a chance to warm up, to find it's feet. I admit I didn't watch too many - no more than five or six - but that was more than enough for me.


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Grey Gargoyle


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,059


Yes, the show did improve after Tessa was removed. Her death gave Duncan some long running grief and pathos to deal with.

Richie becoming immortal was hinted at strongly in the pilot episode and I liked how he slowly moved from being mortal, to immortal protege to sidekick and then later after Dark Duncan nearly killed him into an immortal that could handle himself


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Iron Man Unit 007


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Yes the pilot episode had its flaws, no arguing that.

The S1 episode with Joan Jett showing up as a psycho-femme fatale immortal was awful

Constantly leaving Tessa at home while he goes off to fight the villain of the week got old quick.

Bad Day in Building A was an episode where Duncan got to show off more of his other skills and to face off against non-immortal enemies without giving away his secret. A step in the right direction.

Halfway through Season 1, the episode where Grayson and Darius were brought in and Duncan shifted his operations to Europe was where the show started improving.

Episodes of Season 1 to watch due to being pretty good or also expanding on parts of the mythos:

Ep 7: Mountain Men

Ep 8: Revenge is Sweet, Duncan tries to run away before the quickening over takes him showing that there is no escape from it.

Ep 9: the Sea Witch: shows that proximity counts even if you don't do the beheading

ep 2: Innocent Man: shows Duncan's code of honor and that he will go out of his way to save an innocent. Also a funny tagline at the end of the fight "In the future I'l lremember to leave your friends in peace." Duncan's response "What future?" and bheads him with a vengeance.

Ep 11: a bit weak but does confirm that all immortals are foundlings/orphans

Ep 13: Band of Brothers. Grayson and Darius are introduced into the series along with the concept that Grayson being an "ancient" immortal (almost 2000years old) could be an automatic win against Macleod who is only 400

Ep 15: immortal Xavier St Cloud (Roland Gift of Fine Young Cannibals) plays the latest immortal villain. He escapes Duncan after being "disarmed" and returns in Season 2. He would also appear in later episodes in flashbacks. This ep shows that immortals do NOT regrow lost body parts........though it also did not show if they could reattach the lost part and hope it regenerates back in place.

Ep 18" Lady and the Tiger: first appearance of Amanda, 'Nuff said! \:\)

Ep 22: the season finale: The Hunters we also get Hugh Fitzscairn played by Roger Daltry of THE WHO

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL07AA8809A1C65EED


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,059


Eh, I liked it too, to a point. It could have been better then it was but still better then highlander 5


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The Black Guardian

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The Mandarin


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I'd say Connor, because he believably sold that he had been mourning his bonnie Heather for 500 years. That grief is the heart of the movie, and wouldn't have worked if played by Adrian Paul. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKZATZHWZI

Whenever Adrian Paul tried to sell grief, it actually looked kind of silly.




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swmcbf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,887


I liked the Duncan character for a couple of reasons. Paul was much more believable as a 400 year old warrior and in the series format we got so much more depth and history to enjoy. The first movie was the only good one in the whole five attempts. I will say at least #5 brought the Duncan story a decent finish. The series did suffer from a major fault also found in the movies. They had a cool concept that for some reason the movies 2-5 just could not help changing in really catastrophic ways. Even the series started suffering from that at times.
The writing in both areas just did not equal the potential of the subject matter. The movies suffered the most from those problems but the series had problems as well. All said and done though I did like the show and first movie with a soft spot for The Source just because it gave a conclusion for Duncan. I guess the reboot is stuck in limbo but I am sure if gets made it will be as Connor but they should use Duncan as a template.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
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The reboot is to feature Connor , last I read.

As to the Source, all involved with that abomination agree that it never happened. \:\)


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