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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,326



Ok all the Highlander talk on this board convinced me to finally sit down and watch this movie. It was ok. The sword duels didn't seem as good as I remember them being on the Highlander tv series. I had never read anything about Sean Connery's character Ramírez so seeing him was a treat and I loved Clancy Brown's Kurgan.

I don't get how there can even be a Highlander tv series if the movie that started it all is canon. Didn't Connor get "the prize" by killing Kurgan? All other immortals should be dead right? So how can Connor visit Duncan in the tv series?

I'll probably watch the second movie tonight. I've read that movie states the Highlanders are aliens...how did that revelation affect fans of the first film?



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Superman's Pal

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,941



    Quote:
    I don't get how there can even be a Highlander tv series if the movie that started it all is canon. Didn't Connor get "the prize" by killing Kurgan? All other immortals should be dead right? So how can Connor visit Duncan in the tv series?

Yeah, if a franchise has to decanonize its first installment in order to continue, it's not off to a great start. Basically they said the first movie happened as you saw it but Connor and Kurgan were not the last 2 immortals. Connor didn't win the Prize, just a rather large Quickening (what the series calls the transfer of life force between immortals). It probably would have been better for the series to start over as a reimagining of the concept rather than try to include the movie events.


    Quote:
    I'll probably watch the second movie tonight. I've read that movie states the Highlanders are aliens...how did that revelation affect fans of the first film?

Oh, everyone hates it and pretends the movie didn't happen. I am one of the few proponent of the movie and by no means can I call it a good movie. It's a beautiful train wreck. It was directed by Russell Mulcahy like the first, so it's got some neat scene transitions and is mostly nicely shot. It's got Lambert, Connery and Michael Ironside who can be entertaining in a B movie but boy does he ham it up in this one. I like that this is the only installment of the franchise to actually acknowledge that Connor won the Prize in the first movie and is the last immortal. Unfortunately that means they had to bring in more immortals from somewhere else which meant they decided to retcon the origins and it makes no sense. So by all means watch it but be ready to bite into a huge shit-biscuit (sorry, my co-worker uses that phrase so much it has become standard for me).

Also try to make sure you watch a version of the director's cut (the Renegade Edition or Special Edition) because the theatrical cut chops out like 30 minutes and shuffles scenes and it's hard to even follow the story, silly as it is. On the other hand the director's cut adds in a new scene they shot during the production of Highlander 3 which is completely unnecessary so you can't really win with this one.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,085


Original plan for the TV series was adventures of Connor before the kurgan fight

After Adrian Paul was fast it was changed into an alternative timeline where the final gathering has yet to occur

This is not the first franchise to have retcon, reboot, multiple world's, multiple time lines.

DC reboots every few years
Marvel keeps quasi rebooting with their sliding timescale
Star trek reboots are another timeline
Dr who constantly reinvents it's timeline with all the time travel
Superman movies have been rebooted
Batman movies have been rebooted
Flash and Arrow TV shows have the multiverse
Ghost in the Shell original anime movie and sequel. But stand alone complex is its own time line and so is Arise

So why do fans have such trouble with the Highlander tv series being an alternate timeline? The movie was clearly meant as a one and only movie then came fan demand and the desire for more money.

The series expanded some of the concepts and rules of the immortals.

See my threads below for a breakdown of the multiple Highlander timelines


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,326





    Quote:
    So why do fans have such trouble with the Highlander tv series being an alternate timeline? The movie was clearly meant as a one and only movie then came fan demand and the desire for more money.


1. Connor is in the Highlander pilot. Reinforcing the idea they're in the same timeline.
2. The tv series references other people from the movie series like Ramirez
3. Duncan later appears in a movie with Connor (and then another movie without him I think)

And like Superman's Pal said...you're retconning the very first installment of the franchise to create the tv series.







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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,941



    Quote:
    This is not the first franchise to have retcon, reboot, multiple world's, multiple time lines.



    Quote:
    DC reboots every few years
    Marvel keeps quasi rebooting with their sliding timescale
    Star trek reboots are another timeline
    Dr who constantly reinvents it's timeline with all the time travel
    Superman movies have been rebooted
    Batman movies have been rebooted
    Flash and Arrow TV shows have the multiverse
    Ghost in the Shell original anime movie and sequel. But stand alone complex is its own time line and so is Arise



    Quote:
    So why do fans have such trouble with the Highlander tv series being an alternate timeline? The movie was clearly meant as a one and only movie then came fan demand and the desire for more money.

Like we said, this is probably the only one where the second installment has to alter the first, and the third alter the second, and so on. Star Trek made it through the original series, 10 movies and 4 sequel series before it rebooted. Marvel and DC had many years and thousands of titles before reboots were necessary. Highlander was not a movie that left itself open for a sequel. If the series had presented basically the same story but expanded over many seasons with a new lead (or a new actor playing Connor) it would have been an alternate timeline and people probably would be okay with it. But saying that the first movie still counts but not all of it is what's hard.

Those are the retcons in comics that are so hard to swallow, the ones that say "you didn't actually see what you saw before." Like when Kon-El joined the Teen Titans and they said "we've always known you were a clone of Superman and some other mystery donor" to open up the door for the "Connor has two daddies" storyline, when the previous 10 years of comics had stated that he was a clone of Paul Westfield and no one else (not Superman). So when the Highlander series refers back to the movie it makes you want to go back and watch the movie, but you have to remember to ignore every time they talk about the Prize or being the last 2 immortals because that doesn't count. They could have done a whole episode retelling the events of the movie and omitting those parts so you didn't have to actually watch the old movie and get confused. At least when comics reboot you usually get a miniseries retelling the old stories with the desired changes.

Doctor Who I would describe as more of a time tourist. He visits other times but he doesn't change time. Whatever he does there was already destined to happen. He doesn't cross his own timeline very often and even then it seems to have no effect.


    Quote:
    The series expanded some of the concepts and rules of the immortals.

As it should. I'll get around to watching the whole thing some day.


    Quote:
    See my threads below for a breakdown of the multiple Highlander timelines



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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,085


Well season one and the pilot do reference movie events, yes.

The problem is that the writers waited until the start of season two to establish that this was an alternative timeline.

Joe meets Duncan and brings up the data on Kurgan and states Connor did everyone a favor by taking down the kurgan. At that point we are confirmed as being in a different timeline that ignores HL2 and establishes that Connor destroys Kurgan it just wasn't the final gathering


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,085


Well that is the problem with Highlander is that the first movie does essentially back them into a corner in terms of sequels. HL3 for it's many problems does make sense in that some immortals were buried alive and thus in stasis during the gathering this if connor ever did have the prize it likely left him when the others revived as he was not mortal nor an omnicisient telepath in HL3

However HL 3 was a mistake of a movie. ItS main function was to try to keep the movies going by negating HL2, which it did. However seas 4 of the series was starting and there was no effort to link to the series thus muddying the waters further.

Then comes HL4 which bookends there series and first movie and it ignores 2 and 3 this adding some confusion to the fans again and gave a sad end to Connor.

An example of a story in comics that leaves writers backed in a corner is death of captain marvel. Bringing him back from that death is....tricky. not impossible, but they just don't​ want to desecrate the story, hence fake revivals and cameos

Or as yogurt says in spaceballs "we will meet again in spaceballs two the search for more money


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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,330


But my favorite part of the Highlander movie is the QUEEN soundtrack "It's a Kind of Magic"

PPP





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,326




    Quote:
    But my favorite part of the Highlander movie is the QUEEN soundtrack "It's a Kind of Magic"


Yeah I've always liked the Queen music in Highlander.




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Paste Pot Pete 

Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,330


During the series it became a sort of running joke that all the villains had K or K sounding names.

Caleb, Clinch, Korulus, Kuyler, St. Cloud,
Carlos, Cahill, Colonel Bellian, Canaan, Carter, Kent, Kern, Karros,
Cullen, Kenny, Keogh, Christian, Kirin, Kalas, Kristov, Kagan, Kanwolf

And that's only the first 3 seasons

PPP





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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,941


That's true of the movies: Kurgan, Katana, Kane and Kell. One more way the 5th movie let us down, no K villain.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,085


Yes the movies stick with the tradition of the villain name starting with K except for HL 5 but that movie was a total letdown anyway.

The series saved the letter K for villains that were more then the average menace such as Kalas in Season 3 and KRONOS in Season 5.

Kalas was ready to let the world know the secret that immortals exist if Duncan didn't surrender to him.

KRONOS....he was Pestilence of the Four Horsemen. To this day, I still give kudos to the writers for episodes 99 and 100 that they would establish that such a legend was indeed 4 immortals.


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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,941


Supposedly Freddie Mercury didn't like singing "New York, New York" which is why they only recorded the little snippet you hear in the movie and never released it. Pity. The rest of the "A Kind of Magic" album is great though.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,192



    Quote:
    But my favorite part of the Highlander movie is the QUEEN soundtrack "It's a Kind of Magic"


The Queen soundtrack is the original reason I saw the film at all. It was a fellow Queen fan who told me about the movie and the soundtrack, which I think I rented from Blockbuster, which was still a thing back then.






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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,192



    Quote:
    Supposedly Freddie Mercury didn't like singing "New York, New York" which is why they only recorded the little snippet you hear in the movie and never released it. Pity. The rest of the "A Kind of Magic" album is great though.


A Kind of Magic and The Show Must Go On are my two favorite Queen albums by far.






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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,085


Yeah the soundtrack was awesome. Glad some of it was used in the tv series.

Blockbuster.....a company that truly deserved to fail.


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