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Quickie Pollster




Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!

Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:

1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)



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Sylar




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!

Well thank God for that.


> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

My favourite was ASM #260-261 (I think that's the right issue nos) with Hobbie having kidnapped MJ, Liz and Harry and there's the huge warehouse fight. That was one of my first Spidey comics and always sticks in my mind.


> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

At the time I really enjoyed it. Looking back, it doesn't really make much sense and seems to unnecessarily drag out the storyline.


> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

Initial reaction was disappointment that it was Ned, but I was happy that it was finally over.


> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

Yes, old-time (or old) fan here. I thought it was either Ned or Lance Bannon.


> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I think it would have been stupid and even more disappointing than the way it actually played out.


> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

Too long had passed since ASM #289. I think Stern should have left it alone. It was his choice not to tell DeFalco who Hobgoblin was supposed to be.


> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Kingsley definitely the best. Demogoblin the worst.



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Benjamin Reilly




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!

>

> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:

>

> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

He's pretty cool in Spider-Girl right now. And I liked his last fight with Green Goblin before he retired on that island.

>

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

I didn't believe it. Well, it could have been, since nearly all of Peter's pals have become a hero or villain. But I didn't like it so I didn't buy it.

>

> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I was disappointed. I didn't like Ned Leeds, he always had a problem with Peter because of Betty, so this could have been some extra motivation.

>

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I had no idea. Could have been anyone. Although in some scenes Kingsley was acting suspicious (easy to say now)

>

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I would have believed it, since Hobgoblin was a Green Goblin rip-off, so why shouldn't he be a millionaire with his own business. Ans since Hobgoblin and Spider-Man had nothing personal in the beginning, I think this was a good idea and today I'm happy they got back to this plan.

>

> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

GREAT!!!

>

> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Kingsley. Nothing beats the original! (Except a clone ;\) )

>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows Vista
Scott




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

ASM 259-260--Great suspense throughout
>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

I was young enough not to overanalyze it.
>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I loved the SM/Wolverine one-shot so I was kind of riding the residual bliss at the time.
>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I thought it was going to be somebody we had never seen before.
>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I would not have been disappointed.
>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Probably the "Demogoblin"
>


Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
Sekhem




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?
Loved the build up and mystery that led up to Hobgoblins death in ASM #289. It spanned many, many issues, but it was great running plot.

>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?
It was a great twist and made for some interesting conflicts.

>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?
I didn't like it at first. One of my favorite Spider-Man comics at the time was an ASM issue where Ned saved Spider-Man by jumping in front of Cobra's wrist-rockets-- made no sense to my child mind that he would save Spider-Man once and then later want to kill him. But, I got over it and my only regret was that there was no good Goblin around anymore.

>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
At the time, I thought for sure it was Lance Bannon. Kingsley didn't even blip on my radar.

>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?
It would have had less impact because Ned was a more important character in my mind and that made the revelation more believably devestating for Peter.

>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
I thought it cheapened the original story a bit. I don't think it added much and seemed less credible to me.

>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>
Best: Original Hobgoblin (with mysterious unknown identity for added paranoia)
Worst: 2211 Hobgoblin (I hate time travel)


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
James Edmunds




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?
>
Gang War where he and the Rose were together and I never knew who was going to double cross whom first.


> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?
>
Meh. I never liked Flash, but he couldn't have been the Hobgoblin.


> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?
>
It worked for me.


> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
>
I thought it was Leeds.



> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?
>
I would have liked it. A lot.



> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
>
I still haven't read it!



> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>
Kingsley.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
Edward Whelan




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

Amazing 312 Great battle between Harry and Macendale. The issue was very well drawn and is by far the best either Goblin has looked. I miss Todd....
>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

I new it was a red herring. I did think that Scourge may off him though.
>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I thought that it was legit. He was in the costume. I never liked Foreigner, though and thought that if he should die, it should have been in a bigger fashion and by a bigger baddie.
>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I thought it was Ned.
>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

Meh (although that term wasn't around then)
>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

I enjoyed it and the revelation, but to me, Macendale was the Hobgoblin that I grew up loving.
>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>

Old school Macendale through the Demonic Macendale was the Best.

Robot/cyber/horrible writer/horrible artist Macendale was the worst.


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Jeremiah Ecks




> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

The battle between, presumably, the Kingsley Hobgoblin and Spidey and Harry, during the period just after Spidey dumped the black costume. It was when MJ finally confessed to Peter about his identity. The arc was magnificent - the lead up, Spider-Man getting close to unmasking the Hobgoblin again... but this time, the stakes were high as Liz's life, as well as her baby's was on the line. MJ's position in the story made everything a little more interesting because we now know she knew who Peter was and was juxtaposing an interesting moral dilemma - would she give up Peter's identity to rescue Liz's baby? (We know she wouldn't but Peter didn't know). The battle in the flames at the end... one of my top 3 favourite Spidey stories of all time, if not my favourite, actually.

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

Meh. By that point, the mystery was beginning to take too long, too much. I didn't mind the mystery continuing but there needed to be more clues and much more of a structured mystery. This just stank of 'cash cow' which isn't what you want a mystery to evoke. So the Flash is framed storyline was generally one of my least favourites in the Kingsley-Goblin era, although I actually think it's better than quite a lot of the stuff that followed in the years to come...

> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I wasn't reading at the time. I kind of learned everything backwards and so therefore for me, Ned being the Hobgoblin wasn't something I was surprised at - it was 'old' news for me. I was reading Macendale at the time. It was only when I went back and read the issues, I realised how much of an awkward solution it all was. At least PAD tried.

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

If I'd been reading it at the time, I'd've thought Ned because that's what DeFalco and all the others tried to make it. If not Ned, I may have started to suspect Richard Fisk if he hadn't known Peter already, but otherwise, I just would have thought he would have been a new character, like Osborn was, as a cheat.

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I'm not sure. I think it would have worked because Kingsley would have wrote everything surrounding it in a manner that makes sense. As it happens, it's to his credit he made Hobgoblin Lives work as well as it did, considering the mess up after he left the helm.

> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

I haven't read it, in all fairness, but all of the synopsis' I've read makes me think I'd enjoy it. Although seems to me Hobgoblin goes down too easily and is too easily revealed. I can take Daniel Kingsley giving the game away under duress but I'm just surprised that Kingsley allowed himself to be captured and unmasked by Spider-Man. You'd think with all the duplicity, he'd off Macendale and then get out of there, knowing Betty Brant would be on the chase.

> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Kingsley's original is by far the best.
Demogoblin is the worst, but he's a different character and not a Hobgoblin, per se. I wasn't much fond of the Secret War Goblin because he seemed totally unnecessary. Why another Goblin? Just use Kingsley or even Macendale for goodness sake (for all the care Marvel have of continuity, Macendale wouldn't have been a big deal). Plus, we're realistically not ever going to find out who he is. Plus, he's dead. Yeah, right, good idea... Sigh.
I know most people here would hate demonic Hobby but let's face it, the iconography works in potential (just not with the legacy of this character), so I could forgive it to a degree. Same thing goes with cyber-Goblin - why wouldn't Macendale give it a go? Besides, I thought he looked well cool. \^_\^

-Jeremiah Ecks,
who loves Tom DeFalco for bringing back Hobgoblin. Sort of.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0 on Windows XP
DXD





> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

ASM#251 - the fight in the battle van was BRUTAL! Excellent...I still pull that issue out and read it from time to time.

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?
It was OK...it kept the mystery going a while longer.

>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?
Meh...Ned was a decent choice I suppose...but to be totally honest I didn't think enough clues really pointed to anyone specific.

>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
I originally figured Lance Bannon...but again not enough solid clues were really left IMO.

>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?
Not a fan of twin brothers in general ;\-\) Sounds like a soap opera haha


>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
An OK read...a bit disappointed that Hobby went down so easily...I was hoping they could re-invent the mystery for a longer mystery again.


>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
I like all of them.


>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
BMK!




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

Amazing Spider-Man #249-251

>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

I was about 10 years old or so, but even then, I knew it was a set-up. But I thought, damn...he's so devious to do something like that!

>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

Didn't feel right to me, at all. But, I accepted it.

>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I don't think I had any idea back then. Maybe Lance Bannon.

>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I would have accepted it far better than Ned Leeds.


>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

Glad that Stern came back to fix what had been broken.

>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>


Best...Kingsley. Worst...Demogoblin.

-BMK!-


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Menshevik




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!

Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark/Bundesnachrichtendienst?
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

Let's be a heretic and say it was the one where Macendale hired the Foreigner to off the Hobgoblin for him. He was such a worm, but with enough cash even a worm can hire the muscle to get rid of a superior foe.
>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

Obvious red herring. I didn't much like Flash at the time, his affair with Betty (in which he also cheated on Sha Shan) left a rather bad aftertaste. The story was of course a little more plausible with Ned as the Hobgoblin.


> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I was gobsmacked, but it was kind of cool, revealing his identity only after he had been killed and thus retiring him undefeated by Spider-Man. Also, I have to say I rather enjoyed the Foreigner, who at least for my tastes had a lot more flair than the Hobgoblin. Too bad they pretty much never used him afterwards (AFAIK).

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
>
I didn't really have an idea most of the time, although the framing of Flash led me to think he could be Ned.

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

Hard to say. Probably with a feeling of anti-climax.

>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

Roderick WHO?????
followed by
Vanity piece, author stroking his ego.

>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Couldn't say really. The best Goblin is Green, though, beware of imitations. :-/



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
NF




> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

Probably the blackmail storyline in ASM #249.

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

It was okay.

> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

Ho-hum. (I only read it recently so I already knew it wasn't really him).

Didn't like Macendale's Hobgoblin in that story, actually.

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

Pass.

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

Goo-goo.

> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

A mostly credible and worthwhile explanation for the Hobgoblin's identity, but not that great a story. (And despite my misgivings for Macendale, he had become a worthwhile in his own right by this point, and it seemed a bit wasteful to kill him off the way they did.)

Ned Leeds had been so embedded as the Hobgoblin in the earlier "Rose confesses" story that it was hard to take his part of things seriously, with him pretending to be the Hobgoblin apparently even more than Kingsley did (making one wonder what the point of the story was at all). Perhaps they could have had Rose brainwashed instead.

> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

Kingsley best. Ned Leeds worst. (If Ned doesn't count then Demogoblin was pretty poor too.)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
NF




> Too long had passed since ASM #289. I think Stern should have left it alone. It was his choice not to tell DeFalco who Hobgoblin was supposed to be.

Did DeFalco really not know? It seemed to me he laid out the biggest of the clues in his own run (clues that were in fact never dealt with in the original storyline).


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Jeremiah Ecks




> Did DeFalco really not know? It seemed to me he laid out the biggest of the clues in his own run (clues that were in fact never dealt with in the original storyline).

No, DeFalco nor Owsley/Priest knew at all. Stern told nobody. So Peter David, Owsley and DeFalco all drew to one single conclusion - Ned Leeds. Except Owsley decided to throw people off the scent and kill Ned to surprise everybody. Which kind of worked well... I guess.

To be fair, the clues that Hobgoblin was Kingsley were sparse and not telling (Kingsley thinking 'oh, I must visit my twin brother' or something is obviously what somebody who'd planned the ending would write for retrospective but it's not a clue somebody would pick up during the hunt). The biggest throw off was that Kingsley was meant to have been murdered whilst the Hobgoblin was on the prowl, similar to the Leeds throw off... There were far more red herrings to indicate Bannon or Leeds, which were deliberate.

Now somebody else can help here... did Stern start using Leeds as a mark or was it just the work of DeFalco?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0 on Windows XP
Jeffers




> > Too long had passed since ASM #289. I think Stern should have left it alone. It was his choice not to tell DeFalco who Hobgoblin was supposed to be.
>
> Did DeFalco really not know? It seemed to me he laid out the biggest of the clues in his own run (clues that were in fact never dealt with in the original storyline).

Stern told DeFalco that Kingsley was the Hobgoblin, but also said it was Tom's comic now and if Tom wanted someone else to be the the Hobgoblin, he could.

DeFalco's ultimate plan was to reveal Richard Fisk as the Hobgoblin, but that got scotched when Jim Owlsley fired him off Amazing.

All this was revealed two years ago at the Mid-Ohio Comic Con during a Spider-Man writers panel that included Stern, DeFalco and Peter David. I wish I would have recorded it, because it probably was the definitive history of the Hobgoblin identity mess.
















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
grahamgg




> > Did DeFalco really not know? It seemed to me he laid out the biggest of the clues in his own run (clues that were in fact never dealt with in the original storyline).
>
> No, DeFalco nor Owsley/Priest knew at all. Stern told nobody. So Peter David, Owsley and DeFalco all drew to one single conclusion - Ned Leeds. Except Owsley decided to throw people off the scent and kill Ned to surprise everybody. Which kind of worked well... I guess.
>
> To be fair, the clues that Hobgoblin was Kingsley were sparse and not telling (Kingsley thinking 'oh, I must visit my twin brother' or something is obviously what somebody who'd planned the ending would write for retrospective but it's not a clue somebody would pick up during the hunt). The biggest throw off was that Kingsley was meant to have been murdered whilst the Hobgoblin was on the prowl, similar to the Leeds throw off... There were far more red herrings to indicate Bannon or Leeds, which were deliberate.
>
> Now somebody else can help here... did Stern start using Leeds as a mark or was it just the work of DeFalco?

http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/SquanderedLegacy/SquanderedLegacyTitle.html

By the Mad Goblin. I think he used to post here off and on. Anyways, this article has any and everything you EVER wanted to know about Hobgoblin including the Kingsley revelation, etc.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

Regards,

ggg


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Eric Teall




> http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/SquanderedLegacy/SquanderedLegacyTitle.html
>
> By the Mad Goblin. I think he used to post here off and on. Anyways, this article has any and everything you EVER wanted to know about Hobgoblin including the Kingsley revelation, etc.
>
> HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
>
> Regards,
>
> ggg

Well, thanks for stealing two hours of my night! That series was just awesome! (I'm so glad I didn't have to write it!)

Seriously, if anyone is interested in the Hobgoblin, this series of articles must be read and appreciated.

- Eric Teall

What happens when a man rereads every Spider-Man series since 1962? Check out...


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
GammaSpidey




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

It's hard to pick just one: I'd go with his first appearance in ASM 238, just an awesome intro. Another was the poison/antidote story from an issue of PP:SM where Harry Osborne got poisoned and Spider-Man raced against the clock to find the cure. And then finally Hobgoblin Lives, simply because it allowed Stern to finish the story he had started so long ago.
>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

One of the best uses of Flash in Spider-Man history. It was great.
>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

I had heard about it at the time, but for some reason I could never track down that issue or the Wolverine/Spider-Man one-shot back then. If I recall, DeFalco was leaning pretty heavily in that direction so it wasn't a major surprise to me. Seemed a bit of a letdown that the mystery was over and it was Ned.

>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I could never settle on one character. I think I had it down to Jonas Harrow or Richard Fisk.
>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

It's hard to say, since we don't really know how much longer he would've dragged the plot out, right? It may have gone another year... but I would've enjoyed it.
>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

I thought it was great. I do think they dropped the ball with the character after that series wrapped up though.
>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

For sheer mytsery and coolness factor, it's tough to beat the original Kingsley era from ASM 238-251. The early Macendale up through Gang War was prett good as well. When they went demonic with Macendale that's when the wheels fell off for me.

Hey why should Spider-Girl get all the love, bring back Kingsley in the regular books!!!!
>


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows Server 2003
OB




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?
>
> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?
>
> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?
>
> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
>
> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?
>
> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
>
> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 98
Comic Book Guy




> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

My favorite single Hobgoblin issue is ASM #275 -- one of the first Spidey comics I'd ever read, with the drama of Peter telling MJ he's going to quit being Spidey, and giving a stark example of Spidey's sense of responsibility coming back to bite him (injuring himself rescuing Sha Shan from her fall, then having the injury cause him to fall victim to Hobby's barrage at the end). My favorite Hobgoblin arc is ASM #259-61, though admittedly I haven't read #249-51 in about 20 years so I don't remember much of that.

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

Being a Spidey newbie, I liked it. Having since learned Flash had been Spidey's number one fan, it makes no sense now. As I recall (perhaps incorrectly, from having last read the issue about 20 years ago), ASM #276, the "unmasking" issue, itself revealed that Flash wasn't the Hobgoblin, so I don't think there was any suspense as to whether he really was him.

> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

As for the revelation of Leeds as Hobby, I was disappointed -- IMHO, from #275 through Gang War the writers had tried to make it really obvious that Leeds was Hobby, and I'd hoped that those were all just red herrings. As for the issue, I found it somewhat implausible (a bunch of non-superpowered assassins breaking a supervillain's arm and killing him?), though that aspect now makes sense in light of Hobgoblin Lives. As with most of Peter David's work, I thought it was well-written (e.g., "You don't stop fighting until ten minutes after you're dead"), liked the part where Flash saves Spidey at his own expense (a nice counter to Spidey usually saving everyone else), and was happy in general to see the mystery resolved. This was the new issue I most looked forward to during my days of collecting (1986-88) -- I went to the comic book store the day it came out and bought two copies (both of which were unusual for me). I was stunned by the Mad Goblin's designation of it as one of the ten worst Spidey issues of all time. Thanks for asking this question -- I'd been thinking of asking it myself!

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

Probably Lance Bannon, as Leeds seemed too obvious a suspect. It never occurred to me it was Kingsley. I figured it would be someone we'd seen before, but not the most obvious suspect of Leeds.

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

I haven't seen that so I can't comment on it.

> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

I haven't read it.

> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

I haven't seen most of these, so I can't make a comparison.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
The Green Ninjas




> Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
>
> Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
>
> 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?

It may be a bizarre choice, but the Spider-Man/Hobgoblin vs Demogoblin/Doppleganger tag-team match from Spider-Man #24 is an old favorite.

> 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?

It was yet another "false unmasking", and at least more than one-too-many by that point, and the false unmasking-teases were what killed my interest in the plot, although Flash's character arc through that era DOES make for some good material.

> 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?

"Hobgoblin is dead, long live the Hobgoblin! No more *^@*% mystery!"

By this point, after so many teased endings and false unmaskings, they had written themselves into a corner that DEMANDED it be SOMEONE IMPORTANT (and none of the no-names dragged up a decade later were ever going to cut it). Ned was the biggest name the franchise could really spare, someone who'd been around since the early years, but never really had much personality until DeFalco made him a really intense guy who drank way too much coffee.

The only problem being that Ned was dead by this point. Without even wanting to get into the whole behind-the-scenes debacle that was going on at the time with DeFalco, Priest, etc, PAD ended up making the best of the situation, and gave us something more powerful, memorable and unique that the bog-standard "hero defeats and unmasks villain" resolution that such "mystery villain" plots usually have.

> 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?

I honestly don't remember who, if anyone, I thought it was at the time.

> 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?

Pretty much the same kind of "Roderick WHO? What is this crap?" It felt like a cheat in 1997, and would've felt like a cheat in the 1980s, too. I tend to fear that Stern is so highly thought of by so many fans that the majority would just smile and accept whatever he gave them, though.

> 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?

Well, the art's nice. And that's about all the good I can say about a miniseries that stands as the biggest "bad comic the majority thinks is good" in Spider-Man history. Dragging obscure non-entities out of over a decade in limbo and parading them around as plausible suspects for a major villain does not a good mystery make, and "original idea" or not, the "identical bald twin" thing is a horribly lame cheat, and the done-in-3-pages "final battle" is weak, unmemorable, and utterly fails to make the villain look like a credible threat worth bringing back in the first place.

That we had a well-developed and characterised Hobgoblin quickly, stupidly and implausibly killed off and replaced with an obscure non-entity of a poor-man's Norman Osborn no-one wants to use, and people APPROVED of this, makes me want to flip out and cut heads off.

This miniseries killed the Hobgoblin's career.

> 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)

I'll take any version of Macendale-as-Hobgoblin, outside of the Todd-o-Mac-era religious zealot demon. I did like Demogoblin as his own character, though.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
The Green Ninjas




> > Yay! This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with OMD/BND!
> >
> > Here's some Hobbie related questions for you:
> >
> > 1) What's your favourite all-time Hobgoblin story (you can choose any of them - Kingsley, Macendale, that female one from 2211 etc)?
>
> It may be a bizarre choice, but the Spider-Man/Hobgoblin vs Demogoblin/Doppleganger tag-team match from Spider-Man #24 is an old favorite.
>
> > 2) What did you think of the Flash being framed storyline?
>
> It was yet another "false unmasking", and at least more than one-too-many by that point, and the false unmasking-teases were what killed my interest in the plot, although Flash's character arc through that era DOES make for some good material.
>
> > 3) What was your initial reaction to ASM #289 (Hobbie revealed as Ned Leeds)?
>
> "Hobgoblin is dead, long live the Hobgoblin! No more *^@*% mystery!"
>
> By this point, after so many teased endings and false unmaskings, they had written themselves into a corner that DEMANDED it be SOMEONE IMPORTANT (and none of the no-names dragged up a decade later were ever going to cut it). Ned was the biggest name the franchise could really spare, someone who'd been around since the early years, but never really had much personality until DeFalco made him a really intense guy who drank way too much coffee.
>
> The only problem being that Ned was dead by this point. Without even wanting to get into the whole behind-the-scenes debacle that was going on at the time with DeFalco, Priest, etc, PAD ended up making the best of the situation, and gave us something more powerful, memorable and unique that the bog-standard "hero defeats and unmasks villain" resolution that such "mystery villain" plots usually have.
>
> > 4) If you're an old-time fan (or just an old fan) and were reading Spidey in the 80s - who did you think Hobgoblin was at the time?
>
> I honestly don't remember who, if anyone, I thought it was at the time.
>
> > 5) If Stern's plan of the 'evil twin' Kingley was originally done in the 80s comics, how do you think you would have reacted to the revelation at the time?
>
> Pretty much the same kind of "Roderick WHO? What is this crap?" It felt like a cheat in 1997, and would've felt like a cheat in the 1980s, too. I tend to fear that Stern is so highly thought of by so many fans that the majority would just smile and accept whatever he gave them, though.
>
> > 6) What did you think of Hobgoblin Lives?
>
> Well, the art's nice. And that's about all the good I can say about a miniseries that stands as the biggest "bad comic the majority thinks is good" in Spider-Man history. Dragging obscure non-entities out of over a decade in limbo and parading them around as plausible suspects for a major villain does not a good mystery make, and "original idea" or not, the "identical bald twin" thing is a horribly lame cheat, and the done-in-3-pages "final battle" is weak, unmemorable, and utterly fails to make the villain look like a credible threat worth bringing back in the first place.
>
> That we had a well-developed and characterised Hobgoblin quickly, stupidly and implausibly killed off and replaced with an obscure non-entity of a poor-man's Norman Osborn no-one wants to use, and people APPROVED of this, makes me want to flip out and cut heads off.
>
> This miniseries killed the Hobgoblin's career.
>
> > 7) What's been best and worst Hobgoblin incarnation? (Kingley, mercenary Madendale, demonic Inferno Macendale, Demogoblin, souped-up clone saga era Hobgoblin, Bendis Secret War Hobgoblin, 2211 Hobgoblin... am I forgetting any?)
>
> I'll take any version of Macendale-as-Hobgoblin, outside of the Todd-o-Mac-era religious zealot demon. I did like Demogoblin as his own character, though.

Forgot to add a "worst", that being the revelation of Kingsley-as-original-Hobgoblin killing any interest or appeal the character ever held for me.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
NF




> Pretty much the same kind of "Roderick WHO? What is this crap?" It felt like a cheat in 1997, and would've felt like a cheat in the 1980s, too. I tend to fear that Stern is so highly thought of by so many fans that the majority would just smile and accept whatever he gave them, though.

The thing is, Roderick Kingsley was the only character who had been shown through the entire storyline to have a connection to the character - really, the biggest clue to his identity in the entire run - and the nature of this connection had never been revealed prior to this series (it was clear that he at least knew who Hobgoblin was), so it wasn't really as out of the blue as it might appear. It might have helped if the writers following DeFalco hadn't completely abandoned the character (although they might well have made the storyline completely unreconcilable too).

Personally I also thought the rationale for the characters realising that Ned wasn't the real Hobgoblin was thoroughly sound.

The brother thing was a bit silly but he had been mentioned in the storylines where Kingsley and Hobgoblin appeared simultaneously.

> That we had a well-developed and characterised Hobgoblin quickly, stupidly and implausibly killed off and replaced with an obscure non-entity of a poor-man's Norman Osborn no-one wants to use, and people APPROVED of this, makes me want to flip out and cut heads off.
>
> This miniseries killed the Hobgoblin's career.

Perhaps. I think it more likely that the return of Norman Osborn is what really superseded the Hobgoblins' place in the Spider-Man universe. (Although I can't help but wonder what Peter David had in mind for the character - or, for that matter, why Marvel didn't let him do it.)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
The Green Ninjas




> > Pretty much the same kind of "Roderick WHO? What is this crap?" It felt like a cheat in 1997, and would've felt like a cheat in the 1980s, too. I tend to fear that Stern is so highly thought of by so many fans that the majority would just smile and accept whatever he gave them, though.
>
> The thing is, Roderick Kingsley was the only character who had been shown through the entire storyline to have a connection to the character - really, the biggest clue to his identity in the entire run - and the nature of this connection had never been revealed prior to this series (it was clear that he at least knew who Hobgoblin was), so it wasn't really as out of the blue as it might appear.

Kingsley was introduced as a guy with underworld ties, and it was, if I remember right, DeFalco who later revealed him as having become a lackey of the Hobgoblin.

The _ONLY_ real clues to the Hobgoblin's identity in the entire mystery were:

a) He was someone who was afraid of his identity being exposed because of his family and how they would react. (which really doesn't work for Kingsley, whose only known family is a brother who was in on the secret)
b) He was someone who knew MJ.

I really don't consider his ability to redesign the Green Goblin costume as a "clue" he was secretly a fashion designer, since every supervillain seems capable of making his own costume.

And the Hobgoblin being a master mechanic able to modify and improve on the Green Goblin's weapons, and a master chemist able to recreate the Goblin Formula never made much sense whether it's supposed to be journalist Ned Leeds OR fashion mogul Rod Kingsley under the mask.

Keep in mind that while a minor character like Kingsley might make an acceptable secret identity for a villain introduced and unmasked in the space of an issue or two, the Hobgoblin mystery ran on for around 5 years. By the time we got to the reveal, it HAD to be someone important. And "that corrupt fashion designer MJ worked for" really wasn't ever going to cut it, whereas Ned was about the biggest, most important name the book could afford to lose by making a villain.

The only thing that sold longtime readers on Kingsley being a good idea are the words "Stern's original intent", with no real consideration being paid to the concept that original intents might not always be good ones.

> It might have helped if the writers following DeFalco hadn't completely abandoned the character (although they might well have made the storyline completely unreconcilable too).

The writers following DeFalco _KILLED_ Kingsley, (with mob guys gunning him down because of his Hobgoblin connections, as I recall). They didn't just "abandon" him. They had to retroactively reveal that his brother had showed up in time to save him to justify his return in 1996.

> Personally I also thought the rationale for the characters realising that Ned wasn't the real Hobgoblin was thoroughly sound.

People keep saying this, but, even ignoring that having MJ point this out to Peter 10 years later was just silly, the "reasons" Ned couldn't be the Hobgoblin rested on two points:

1) Flash knocked Ned down, thus Ned couldn't be the Hobgoblin. Evidently although Peter, and every other superhero with a secret identity to protect, is smart enough to play the weakling rather than give away that they have powers, it's too much to expect that an evil criminal genius might manage to do the same, and would of course be cretin enough to blow his secret identity under such circumstances.

2) The Foreigner's assassins were not superhuman, so how could they kill a superhuman? This unshakeable belief that a group of highly-trained fighters would be useless against a guy with super-strength pretty much ignores the entire career of guys like Captain America and Daredevil, along with all Spidey's own non-superhuman foes who've held their own against him.

Even if one is still unswerving in his belief that these two reasons prevent Ned from being the Hobgoblin, the exact same people don't seem to care that the miniseries went on to repeat the "how could that guy possibly be killed by that other guy?" debacle with Macendale's nonsensical death at the hands of a weapon that's never killed non-powered humans, after being physically overpowered by his weaker predecessor. It's over ten years later, isn't it time MJ reminded Peter how much sense that didn't make?

> The brother thing was a bit silly but he had been mentioned in the storylines where Kingsley and Hobgoblin appeared simultaneously.

A brother had been mentioned, but how anyone could possibly have been expected to guess "bald but otherwise identical brother" from that is a logic-leap that is more than a bit of a cheat, rendering the mystery into something that would be near-impossible to figure out.

> > That we had a well-developed and characterised Hobgoblin quickly, stupidly and implausibly killed off and replaced with an obscure non-entity of a poor-man's Norman Osborn no-one wants to use, and people APPROVED of this, makes me want to flip out and cut heads off.
> >
> > This miniseries killed the Hobgoblin's career.
>
> Perhaps. I think it more likely that the return of Norman Osborn is what really superseded the Hobgoblins' place in the Spider-Man universe.

It's clearly a lot of both. Given that we HAD a Hobgoblin who was a different enough character to co-exist with the Green Goblin (and had co-existed with Harry, with each occupying different roles), it stands up as one of the bigger bonehead mistakes of the era to get rid of him and replace him with a guy who can't help but come across as a poor man's Norman Osborn, mere months after Norman had just returned. This murdering scum being retired to an island paradise with a happy ending really bothered me.

> (Although I can't help but wonder what Peter David had in mind for the character - or, for that matter, why Marvel didn't let him do it.)

So long as Norman's around (and face it, he ain't going anywhere again), there's not a whole lot you CAN do with his poor imitation beyond actually giving us the to-the-death battle we were promised in 1998.

Another thing that bothers me that I just figured out: This is a villain who owes his entire existence to Spidey allowing some random criminal to escape, rather than chase the guy into the sewers. Spider-Man, the guy whose whole origin and guilt-complex revolve around what happens when he lets some random criminal get away.

Fail.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP

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