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Andrew




So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.

I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.

Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.

I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.

The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).

And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.

So, any opinions?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Electro




> So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.
>
> I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.
>
> Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.
>
> I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.
>
> The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>
> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>
> So, any opinions?

Very valid points, one and all. I too was a supporter of Norman's return, and have generally liked his appearances in recent years (with a few exceptions - *cough* gathering of five *cough*). With regards to Harry, however, I feel that his effectiveness as a character has always been because of his inherent flaws: his drug abuse, his inability to stand up to his father, and his general inferiority complex. That said, I think he should remain deceased. His was a tragic life, and his death greatly impacted both Peter and Norman. He being dead is a constant reminder to both of them of their inability to save him, and is a defining factor in their mutual loathing of one another. Also, with a few exceptions, I really don't like resurrection stories and feel that the only way to bring Harry back would be to prove that he's been alive and in hiding all these years, which really wouldn't be his style. As to the best friend angle, I really liked the way Paul Jenkins wrote Randy Robertson a few years back, and think that he could again be an effective male counterpart to Peter if written correctly. That, or he could hang out with the Human Torch more...I always enjoy stories where they're together.

Electro


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Nick Katzenberg




At this point, I really don't see why not. Peter's clone came back. The Jackal came back. Norman came back. Doctor Octopus came back. Aunt May came back. Chameleon came back. Mary Jane came back... Harry coming back to the spiderverse couldn't possibly delegitimize deaths anymore than they already have been over the last decade.
>
>Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>

That is a brilliant idea. I would love to see the human chess game played between those two.

> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>

Don't forget the family he's left alone the last couple of years in continuity time.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Mr Honey Bunny




> So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.
>
> I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.
>
> Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.
>
> I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.
>
> The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>
> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>
> So, any opinions?

I posted a plot of my own to get him back into the spidey titles, here on the SMB months ago. Here is the repost with modifications in the end because of CW and all the things that happened since :

All those years, Norman Osborn has been a threat for his country as he is responsible, amoung other rich men, for the creation of some super villains (As seen in MKSM 09). Years ago, the SHIELD and Nick Fury gathered a lot of informations about Norman and planned to stop him. Though Norman faked his own death, so the SHIELD dropped that case (ASM 122). But when they heard that Norman was possibly alive, they had to search him and arrest him in order to learn from him the ID of the other rich buisnessmen that contributed in creating super villains. They were in need of a super agent to bring him back and they thought his own son would be the best choice : Harry Osborn would find his father for them and would never kill his own father. The SHIELD contacted Harry and the news his father was alive did nothing good to his already weak and tortured mind (Some weeks prior to Spectacular 178). Anyway, Harry accepted the mission and the fact he had to keep all of this a secret, even from his own family. Where the SHIELD screwed is when they gave him the same formula that changed Stan Carter into the Sin Eater. They perfected it but unfortunately, this and the goblin formula, drove Harry to the edge of madness in just a few weeks. He completely lost control and forgot everything he had to do, just destroy Peter. The backlash of the formula gave him hallucinations like Stan Carter had. Before everything went too far, The Shield chose to stop him by themselves and put him in a coma that looked like a death due to the serum(Spectacular 200). They took his body back some days after, and have him in suspended life somewhere in the SHIELD's HQ. When Norman came back soon after that, he tried to rebuild a reputation for himself and so the Shield was not able to go after him immediately and then he went nuts for a time(At the end of the Clone Saga and before the Relaunch). All they needed was Norman to make a mistake and it happened when Norman killed a Bugle's journalist, Norman went in custody(Pulse 1). As soon as Norman was exposed as the Green Goblin he was also exposed to the others rich guys, like him, who would kill him in order to keep him silent. So the Shield wanted to take him out before he is killed, unfortunately spider-man helped him to escape(MKSM 10). Now, Norman is leading the Thunderbolts under the gouvernment apparent control and Tony Stark is leading the S.H.I.E.L.D. Tony would discover that they kept one of Peter's best friend in an artificial coma all those years and that he is also the perfect soldier to stop Norman Osborn'actions that he now feels reponsible for. The SHIELD will bring Harry back to life. The problem being that Harry won't be happy that the SHIELD used him like that and that he spent years in coma because of them. The situation will soon turn out of control again and non other than Spider-Man will be asked to stop his worst friend from doing things he would regret.


Now, there would be a lot of fun :

Would Harry get revenge on his father ?
Would he join Peter and the New Avengers ?
Would he try to get revenge over the SHIELD for what they did to him ?
Is Tony doing this for Peter (bringing him back his long lost friend) or for himself (wishing Norman's fall) ? Is he just doing what the SHIELD did years ago, using Harry ?
Would Harry go public or hide from his family ?
Would the Thunderbolts/New Avengers/Mighty Avengers go in collision with Peter/Norman, Harry/Norman, Tony/Norman, Peter/Tony, Harry/Tony's grudges entering into play ?

There's plenty of fun things to write out of that.

And, as for Spectacular 200 or ASM 400, I think a story can't be ruined. It always stand on his own. Spectacular 200 and ASM 400 will always be terrific stories in their context. It doesn't matter we are being said that Aunt May still alive later on, at the time, it was for REAL. I still read them the way it was intended to be.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
MattS80




It's a bad idea. The Spider-Verse has enough Goblin's as it is, and if they want another Goblin, they could just bring back the HOBgoblin (come on, where is he?). As for Peter needing a best friend, well everybody now knows his identity, so he could discuss that with whoever he wants, and he has the Avengers as friends and teammates. I would make Spider-Man and Daredevil best friends really, they haven't been with each other in a long time have they? Um by with each other, I mean, well, you know what I mean. Actually, wouldn't it be kind of cool if Spidey found out that Daredevil had the Kingpin freed from the joint?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
GammaSpidey




I'm all for a ressurected Harry who has a spine and will stand up to his father. Norman has pretty much been a waste since he came back... I'd love to see an Osborne family feud.


> So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.
>
> I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.
>
> Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.
>
> I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.
>
> The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>
> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>
> So, any opinions?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
MattS80




> At this point, I really don't see why not. Peter's clone came back. The Jackal came back. Norman came back. Doctor Octopus came back. Aunt May came back. Chameleon came back. Mary Jane came back... Harry coming back to the spiderverse couldn't possibly delegitimize deaths anymore than they already have been over the last decade.
> >
>

The Jackal created clones, so him coming back was pretty logical.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
PDT




> So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.
>
> I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.
>
> Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.
>
> I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.
>
> The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>
> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>
> So, any opinions?


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Jeffers




If there's a worse idea than breaking up the marriage, it would be bringing back Harry.

I was relieved when they brought back Norman to end the Clone Saga because I was afraid it was going to be Harry (which was the original plan, I think).

Harry's death was meaningful. Let it stand.

And instead of saying Pete has no more friends, Quesada and JMS should recognize that Flash Thompson had become Peter's friend. Instead, in the mania for resetting the clock to 1962, Flash inexplicably became a bully again.





> So from what we can tell, Marvel's currently in the process of bringing Spider-Man and his world "back to basics" with "One More Day" and the upcoming "Brand New Day" storyline. While we aren't quite positive yet, it's highly likely that there will be a cosmic reset of some sort, giving Spidey his secret identity back and possibly getting rid of the marriage. Aunt May will, likely, also be left alive when all is said and done.
>
> I recall a recent interview where Joe Quesada and JMS were complaining about certain aspects of Spider-Man and what has been done to him over the years, one of those things being that most of his supporting cast has either been written out or killed off. One of the specific complaints was that "Peter has no friends left" and there was some minor bitching about Harry Osborn not being around anymore, thus Peter has no best friend.
>
> Now, I know that Norman Osborn was brought back (much to the dismay of many long-time fans, although I don't mind it), and while there have been some hints in a few storylines over the last decade that Harry Osborn is also still alive, it has always been a red herring and no legitimate attempt at bringing back Harry has ever been undergone by Spider-Man's writers since Norman's return (and yes I know that Harry was going to be the mastermind behind the clone saga and Bob Harras decided it should be Norman; that's beside the point). And face it, Norman Osborn will never be killed off again, ever, despite how much this may anger some people. It's just something we all have to live with.
>
> I personally feel that, despite Norman being around, bringing Harry Osborn back would probably be a good move in the long-term, and imagine what a kickass story the return would be. Yeah, I know it would suck to ruin Spectacular Spider-Man #200, a brilliant story by J.M. DeMatteis chronicling the death of Harry Osborn, but let's face it; the best DeMatteis story ever, Amazing Spider-Man #400, was ruined years ago and Aunt May is likely never going to be killed off again. On the other hand, I have a feeling that "Kraven's Last Hunt" will never be undone, especially since Kraven's son is running around, so at least DeMatteis can still have that one.
>
> The primary reason I think that bringing Harry back would be a good idea, is because it would fundamentally change Norman and Peter's relationship. Think about it; since Harry's death and Norman's return, each has blamed the other for Harry's death. Now, if Harry were alive and in hiding, unbeknownst to each of them, only to finally reveal himself as a new threat, imagine the reactions from Norman and Peter. Plus, Harry could finally be given the spotlight as an evil, conniving bastard that can finally step out of his father's shadow and become a genuine threat to not only Peter Parker, but also to Norman Osborn. Really, the inevitable Green Goblin vs. Green Goblin fight would be amazing, especially with Spidey caught in the middle not knowing who to help (or even if he should help either of them at all).
>
> And hey, if they choose not to have Harry be evil, at least Peter finally gets his best friend back and he can remain a long-term supporting cast member once again.
>
> So, any opinions?















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
PDT




> And instead of saying Pete has no more friends, Quesada and JMS should recognize that Flash Thompson had become Peter's friend. Instead, in the mania for resetting the clock to 1962, Flash inexplicably became a bully again.

It's not inexplicable. It's because of the brain damage Flash suffered at the hands of the Goblin a few years back. Flash was left in a vegetative state, and when he came out of it, he had amnesia and only remembered Peter from way back in high school.

As I understand it, Peter David did it because he wanted to set off a certain dynamic between Peter and Flash in the wake of Peter revealing his secret identity to the world. After that happened, Peter and Flash would start to become friends, but why is that happening, exactly? Is Flash genuinely trying to become Peter's friend, or is he only doing it because Peter is his idol, Spider-Man? It's pretty interesting stuff.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
TalesMN




> I'm all for a ressurected Harry who has a spine and will stand up to his father. Norman has pretty much been a waste since he came back... I'd love to see an Osborne family feud.

This is pretty much the only way I'd want Harry back. Anything else would be a betrayal to the character - with Norman back he has no reason left to hate Peter. I root for the day Marvel will choose to tell this story, for Harry is my favorite character in Spider-Man comics.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
jwd




> If there's a worse idea than breaking up the marriage, it would be bringing back Harry.
>
> I was relieved when they brought back Norman to end the Clone Saga because I was afraid it was going to be Harry (which was the original plan, I think).
>
> Harry's death was meaningful. Let it stand.

As opposed to "Aunt May's" death where she gave her blessing to Peter and told him his Uncle Ben would've been proud and Marvel ripped that away from him?

Personally I'd prefer it be Harry over Peter. With Norman for the longest time its the guy that killed Gwen and he's not going to get any sympathy from Peter. Its pretty much hate. Now with Harry though he's got the conflict since its his best friend. To me that adds more depth to the interaction. Also it wouldn't of been nearly as creepy if it had been Harry and Gwen back in Sins Past. They did know each other before Peter knew them.

I'm not however on the "Bring Harry back!" bandwagon either.

jwd





ninja.monkeylord.org (12.345.67.89)
using Interwebs Stealth Engine 2.0 (0 points)
jwd




> As I understand it, Peter David did it because he wanted to set off a certain dynamic between Peter and Flash in the wake of Peter revealing his secret identity to the world. After that happened, Peter and Flash would start to become friends, but why is that happening, exactly? Is Flash genuinely trying to become Peter's friend, or is he only doing it because Peter is his idol, Spider-Man? It's pretty interesting stuff.

I wonder if any of the new BND writers plan to followup on this or what Peter's status will be with Flash (and the rest of the cast for that matter)

jwd




ninja.monkeylord.org (12.345.67.89)
using Interwebs Stealth Engine 2.0 (0.33 points)
PDT




> I wonder if any of the new BND writers plan to followup on this or what Peter's status will be with Flash (and the rest of the cast for that matter)
>
> jwd
>

Well, I suppose that depends on whether or not Peter's identity will be a secret again after OMD (I kinda doubt it will be, though).

To be honest, I'd rather they didn't, though. Wouldn't mind if Flash was written out of the book completely.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Jeffers




> > And instead of saying Pete has no more friends, Quesada and JMS should recognize that Flash Thompson had become Peter's friend. Instead, in the mania for resetting the clock to 1962, Flash inexplicably became a bully again.
>
> It's not inexplicable. It's because of the brain damage Flash suffered at the hands of the Goblin a few years back. Flash was left in a vegetative state, and when he came out of it, he had amnesia and only remembered Peter from way back in high school.
>
Flash started acting like a jerk toward Peter well before that. I believe it was a symptom of the Byrne relaunch.
















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Jeffers




> > If there's a worse idea than breaking up the marriage, it would be bringing back Harry.
> >
> > I was relieved when they brought back Norman to end the Clone Saga because I was afraid it was going to be Harry (which was the original plan, I think).
> >
> > Harry's death was meaningful. Let it stand.
>
> As opposed to "Aunt May's" death where she gave her blessing to Peter and told him his Uncle Ben would've been proud and Marvel ripped that away from him?
>
I thought Aunt May's death should have stood, too.

















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Smithville Thunderbolt




> I wonder if any of the new BND writers plan to followup on this or what Peter's status will be with Flash (and the rest of the cast for that matter)

While we haven't been told who the cast will be, we have been told that the supporting cast will be a huge emphasis in BND.


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PDT




> Flash started acting like a jerk toward Peter well before that. I believe it was a symptom of the Byrne relaunch.

Well, whenever they interacted during Paul Jenkins' run on Peter Parker: Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man (spanning approximately five years), they were good friends. Especially after Flash was left in a vegetative state, Peter would often visit and talk to him and try to help improve his condition.


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Jeffers




> > Flash started acting like a jerk toward Peter well before that. I believe it was a symptom of the Byrne relaunch.
>
> Well, whenever they interacted during Paul Jenkins' run on Peter Parker: Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man (spanning approximately five years), they were good friends. Especially after Flash was left in a vegetative state, Peter would often visit and talk to him and try to help improve his condition.

I think Jenkins was going against the program at the time. I saw him at the Wizard World convention back then and thanked him for not treating Flash like the jerk he had become in the other titles.
















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







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jwd




> > I wonder if any of the new BND writers plan to followup on this or what Peter's status will be with Flash (and the rest of the cast for that matter)
>
> While we haven't been told who the cast will be, we have been told that the supporting cast will be a huge emphasis in BND.

If Flash is a part of it the question is will he be a jerk or a friend? I'd prefer friend.



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Blargh




>I mean, well, you know what I mean. Actually, wouldn't it be kind of cool if Spidey found out that Daredevil had the Kingpin freed from the joint?

Daredevil #100 is coming out soon. Maybe the inevitable confrontation is going to be there as a bonus story?


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Mr Honey Bunny




> > > Flash started acting like a jerk toward Peter well before that. I believe it was a symptom of the Byrne relaunch.
> >
> > Well, whenever they interacted during Paul Jenkins' run on Peter Parker: Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man (spanning approximately five years), they were good friends. Especially after Flash was left in a vegetative state, Peter would often visit and talk to him and try to help improve his condition.
>

And one day, Peter just stopped caring about Flash because he has more important things to do obviously.
If Flash has been badly treated, it was during Jenkins' tenure IMO.

> I think Jenkins was going against the program at the time. I saw him at the Wizard World convention back then and thanked him for not treating Flash like the jerk he had become in the other titles.
>
>
>
>

You could have thanked him for throwing Flash like an old sock right after Spectacular Spider-Man 6, when he didn't need him anymore. (Flash just made a cameo during the "Queen" arc for the rest of his run)

With less issues, PAD didn't screwed at using Flash and other supporting cast characters.



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PDT




> And one day, Peter just stopped caring about Flash because he has more important things to do obviously.
> If Flash has been badly treated, it was during Jenkins' tenure IMO.

According to who? After those first two arcs, Jenkins was bombarded by requests from editorial to write certain stories. He wasn't writing what HE wanted to write, he was doing what was asked of him. See, for example, the Queen arc. After that, he got maybe one or two issues to himself before the title was hijacked once again by the sequel to Sins Past, which he didn't write. After that story, Marvel decided to cancel the series. So he never got a chance to take the Flash subplot as far as he wanted to take it.


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blackspider




I think they should do a retcon that reveals that Norman Osborn never really came back to life, but that instead he was a robot all along created by Harry to torment Spider-Man. Other characters such as the Gwen Stacy clone and the children of Gwen should also be revealed to be robots as well.

I would actually like to see Harry return as part of a huge retcon where everything done by JMS is revealed to just have been one big lie created by Harry Osborn and a secret villain to mess with Spiderman. Harry under the tutelage of a unknown villain did all this to destroy Spider-Man. The unknown villain though has personal reason for getting Spider-Man and is manipulating Spider-Man for his own benefit. Harry also had Mary Jane and Aunt May brainwashed to get Peter to unmask.

I could even see Spider-Man's DNA being a major reason why Spider-Man was led to believe in the whole Spider God mumbo jumbo. Someone has Spider-Man so brainwashed, Spidey does not even realize this someone is experimenting on Spider-Man.

This would so freaking amazing.







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Jeffers




> > And one day, Peter just stopped caring about Flash because he has more important things to do obviously.
> > If Flash has been badly treated, it was during Jenkins' tenure IMO.
>
> According to who? After those first two arcs, Jenkins was bombarded by requests from editorial to write certain stories. He wasn't writing what HE wanted to write, he was doing what was asked of him. See, for example, the Queen arc. After that, he got maybe one or two issues to himself before the title was hijacked once again by the sequel to Sins Past, which he didn't write. After that story, Marvel decided to cancel the series. So he never got a chance to take the Flash subplot as far as he wanted to take it.

Exactly. During that same conversation I mentioned before, Paul Jenkins described a scene he had just written where Flash got on Paul Stacy's case (remember him?) for insulting Peter. PJ described the scene with much glee.

But that scene never appeared.

Paul Jenkins was a guy who loved Spider-Man, understood the character better than anyone who has written him in the last decade and in only a few years wrote some of the all-time best Spidey stories. Yet Marvel continually shunted his ideas aside. Spider-Man would be in much better shape today if Quesada let Jenkins pull the train instead of JMS.
















"The grassroots support from the SG message board has been fantastic. Those fans have managed to keep Spider-Girl alive. They never gave up on the title. Not even when Marvel canceled it and told me there was no hope of ever bringing it back. Spider-Girl lives because of her fans!"


--Tom DeFalco




Check out Jeffers' film reviews at Rotten Tomatoes.







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Mr Honey Bunny




> > And one day, Peter just stopped caring about Flash because he has more important things to do obviously.
> > If Flash has been badly treated, it was during Jenkins' tenure IMO.
>
> According to who? After those first two arcs, Jenkins was bombarded by requests from editorial to write certain stories. He wasn't writing what HE wanted to write, he was doing what was asked of him. See, for example, the Queen arc. After that, he got maybe one or two issues to himself before the title was hijacked once again by the sequel to Sins Past, which he didn't write. After that story, Marvel decided to cancel the series. So he never got a chance to take the Flash subplot as far as he wanted to take it.

What 2 arcs ? He dropped it after the FIRST arc with Venom.

The Queen arc is always the exemple given by Jenkins's fans but EVEN if you skip on it, (and he could have adressed the Flash sub-plot during it, even just in a "freakin" line here and there ...) Jenkins still had issues 7 to 14, 21 and 22, and 27 of Spectacular to adress and follow that. That makes 11 issues in which he CHOSE not to use or adress the Flash sub-plot.


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PDT




> What 2 arcs ? He dropped it after the FIRST arc with Venom.
>
> The Queen arc is always the exemple given by Jenkins's fans but EVEN if you skip on it, (and he could have adressed the Flash sub-plot during it, even just in a "freakin" line here and there ...) Jenkins still had issues 7 to 14, 21 and 22, and 27 of Spectacular to adress and follow that. That makes 11 issues in which he CHOSE not to use or adress the Flash sub-plot.

He can't well make the book about the Flash subplot. Writers need to move things at their own pace. Otherwise they're just hacking stuff out, and not writing the way they feel like they should write. In the Doc Ock arc, the story about Doc Ock and the ambassador took precedence over the Flash subplot. The fourteenth issue wasn't even about Spider-Man. It was about Joey. The final issue was about...his final issue. It was him putting a close on five years of working on the character. So that took precedence.

When he wrote these issues, he believed he had the entire book all to himself to deal with the Flash subplot. So he could go at his own pace, and do it like he felt was right. Marvel had other plans, so he couldn't do what he wanted.


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Menshevik




> > What 2 arcs ? He dropped it after the FIRST arc with Venom.
> >
> > The Queen arc is always the exemple given by Jenkins's fans but EVEN if you skip on it, (and he could have adressed the Flash sub-plot during it, even just in a "freakin" line here and there ...) Jenkins still had issues 7 to 14, 21 and 22, and 27 of Spectacular to adress and follow that. That makes 11 issues in which he CHOSE not to use or adress the Flash sub-plot.
>
> He can't well make the book about the Flash subplot. Writers need to move things at their own pace. Otherwise they're just hacking stuff out, and not writing the way they feel like they should write. In the Doc Ock arc, the story about Doc Ock and the ambassador took precedence over the Flash subplot. The fourteenth issue wasn't even about Spider-Man. It was about Joey. The final issue was about...his final issue. It was him putting a close on five years of working on the character. So that took precedence.

That's a poor excuse for an excuse. As Mr. Honey Bunny said, all it would have taken would have been a line here and there, Flash needn't even have appeared on-panel. And even accepting for argument's sake that there was an overarching need for #14 and the final issue not to further Flash's subplot, that still leaves 9 other issues. if he "needed" to move things at his own pace, he should not have written within the framework of a franchise like Spider-Man, where one title is always affected by the others (and Spectacular was not the flagship Spider-book) and a professional writer has to roll with the punches handed to him by editorial and the creators of related titles. Lord knows that Peter David, who over the years has had a lot to suffer in this respect is much more of a pro in this respect and usually can be relied up to tie up the loose ends, even when a title's run is cut ended abruptly (vide Captain Marvel vol. 3 and 4, Supergirl and Young Justice).
Of course I'm probably prejudiced because I did not enjoy Paul Jenkins' self-indulgent final issue (nice artwork, though), which was half wallowing in nostalgic sentimentality and half ripping of Calvin & Hobbes (oh yes, I know, it was a fromage to Watterson).



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PDT




> That's a poor excuse for an excuse. As Mr. Honey Bunny said, all it would have taken would have been a line here and there, Flash needn't even have appeared on-panel. And even accepting for argument's sake that there was an overarching need for #14 and the final issue not to further Flash's subplot, that still leaves 9 other issues. if he "needed" to move things at his own pace, he should not have written within the framework of a franchise like Spider-Man, where one title is always affected by the others (and Spectacular was not the flagship Spider-book) and a professional writer has to roll with the punches handed to him by editorial and the creators of related titles. Lord knows that Peter David, who over the years has had a lot to suffer in this respect is much more of a pro in this respect and usually can be relied up to tie up the loose ends, even when a title's run is cut ended abruptly (vide Captain Marvel vol. 3 and 4, Supergirl and Young Justice).

ALL writers move at their own pace, buddy. It's the way EVERYONE writes comic books. Writers aren't usually told what to write, they're just put on a title and told to run with it. Which is as it should be. The only circumstances when writers are told what to do on titles is when there's editorial interference, such as when editors ask a writer to write a specific story, or when what they're writing ties into another story (usually seen in the form of a big crossover event). Which is fine and all, and a lot of writers might be good at doing that, but it's not an ideal state for writing and creativity, and it doesn't create adequate work conditions. Which is why so very often you hear about writers (or less commonly, artists) leaving books because they don't like having stories or story concepts forced on them. Writers are not mouthpieces for editors. Simply put, it's not a writer's job to write what editors tell them to write, beyond creating on the foundations of the book they are given (such as Spider-Man).

Furthermore, the Flash subplot is not something that was editorially forced on Jenkins. He's the one that wrote Peter and Flash's friendship in Peter Parker: Spider-Man, he's the one who wrote the story where Flash is crippled, and he's the one who was writing the story of Flash's recovery. It was his baby, his thing, and you gotta let the man work it the way he intended to work it from the beginning.


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Mr Honey Bunny




> > That's a poor excuse for an excuse. As Mr. Honey Bunny said, all it would have taken would have been a line here and there, Flash needn't even have appeared on-panel. And even accepting for argument's sake that there was an overarching need for #14 and the final issue not to further Flash's subplot, that still leaves 9 other issues. if he "needed" to move things at his own pace, he should not have written within the framework of a franchise like Spider-Man, where one title is always affected by the others (and Spectacular was not the flagship Spider-book) and a professional writer has to roll with the punches handed to him by editorial and the creators of related titles. Lord knows that Peter David, who over the years has had a lot to suffer in this respect is much more of a pro in this respect and usually can be relied up to tie up the loose ends, even when a title's run is cut ended abruptly (vide Captain Marvel vol. 3 and 4, Supergirl and Young Justice).
>

> ALL writers move at their own pace, buddy. It's the way EVERYONE writes comic books. Writers aren't usually told what to write, they're just put on a title and told to run with it. Which is as it should be. The only circumstances when writers are told what to do on titles is when there's editorial interference, such as when editors ask a writer to write a specific story, or when what they're writing ties into another story (usually seen in the form of a big crossover event). Which is fine and all, and a lot of writers might be good at doing that, but it's not an ideal state for writing and creativity, and it doesn't create adequate work conditions. Which is why so very often you hear about writers (or less commonly, artists) leaving books because they don't like having stories or story concepts forced on them. Writers are not mouthpieces for editors. Simply put, it's not a writer's job to write what editors tell them to write, beyond creating on the foundations of the book they are given (such as Spider-Man).
>

Then, Jenkins' pace wasn't good at all : Without the Queen arc, you still had 11 issues, that is to say almost a WHOLE YEAR of stories to adress Flash's condition.
You're telling us here editors should not interfere in the writers' stories, fine, but what's your point ?
As far as I know, the Dock Ock arc WAS Jenkins' story, the Lizard' arc WAS Jenkins' story, as well as issues 14, 21, 22 and 27, in which he didn't adressed the Flash subplot... knowing from issue 21, at least, that Marvel will end Spectacular. He chose to write a story about Poker (huh ?!), Mindworm (Huh?! again), instead of adressing the Flash subplot. It seems it prevailed over the Flash's suplot...it shouldn't IMO.

> Furthermore, the Flash subplot is not something that was editorially forced on Jenkins. He's the one that wrote Peter and Flash's friendship in Peter Parker: Spider-Man, he's the one who wrote the story where Flash is crippled, and he's the one who was writing the story of Flash's recovery. It was his baby, his thing, and you gotta let the man work it the way he intended to work it from the beginning.

That's only make things worst : It was HIS RESPONSABILITY to put a final word on this, he didn't.
The way it now seems to look like is that he crippled Flash during "a death in the family" arc because he needed something "huge" to happen. It was the issues of Peter Parker Spider-Man 44 to 47. Then, he adressed it during the three following issues, 48 to 50.
Zeb Wells wrote issues 51 to 57, and EVEN IF IT WAS NOT HIS JOB, he adressed Flash' condition !
Then, Jenkins wrote the Venom arc for the Spectacular first arc in which he is adressing the Flash' subplot, and he also works on it in issue 6; the first part of the dock ock arc. From here, NADA. (Well, except a cameo from the Queen arc !)
It shows that after crippling Flash, he used him during about 9 issues, and then, dropped him like an old stinky sock ! (And he is not using him for 11 issues, not counting the Queen arc ...)
What does it mean ? That once Jenkins wrote the story he wanted to write and that he used Flash, he can just throw him like that ? It's unprofessional IMO. And it's not a matter of editors here, or pace. It's a matter of respect for the readers. You don't write a story like "a death in the family", crippling one of the main supporting cast characters, to throw it away 9 issues later, sorry.


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PDT




> Then, Jenkins' pace wasn't good at all : Without the Queen arc, you still had 11 issues, that is to say almost a WHOLE YEAR of stories to adress Flash's condition.
> You're telling us here editors should not interfere in the writers' stories, fine, but what's your point ?
> As far as I know, the Dock Ock arc WAS Jenkins' story, the Lizard' arc WAS Jenkins' story, as well as issues 14, 21, 22 and 27, in which he didn't adressed the Flash subplot... knowing from issue 21, at least, that Marvel will end Spectacular. He chose to write a story about Poker (huh ?!), Mindworm (Huh?! again), instead of adressing the Flash subplot. It seems it prevailed over the Flash's suplot...it shouldn't IMO.

Well, that's your opinion. He was writing it as he saw fit.

> That's only make things worst : It was HIS RESPONSABILITY to put a final word on this, he didn't.

Because...he didn't get a chance to. Why is that so hard to understand? He evidently wanted to take it somewhere, being that he kept writing it and hinting that Flash was getting better, but other stories, other writers and the title getting canceled got in the way.


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