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Nemo




http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=2956

Apologies for the long link but I'll be a wheatcake eatin' fool if this doesn't actually sound plausible. . .


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NF




> http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=2956
>
> Apologies for the long link but I'll be a wheatcake eatin' fool if this doesn't actually sound plausible. . .

The hullaballoo over the end of the marriage will be over in a couple of months. Indeed most of the feedback I've seen across the net on #546 is broadly positive - at least 70/30. Marvel got this kind of flak over "Avengers Disassembled" and yet in the three years since they have only ever moved forward...


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tonystark61




> > http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=2956
> >
> > Apologies for the long link but I'll be a wheatcake eatin' fool if this doesn't actually sound plausible. . .
>
> The hullaballoo over the end of the marriage will be over in a couple of months. Indeed most of the feedback I've seen across the net on #546 is broadly positive - at least 70/30. Marvel got this kind of flak over "Avengers Disassembled" and yet in the three years since they have only ever moved forward...

Yes, but the New Avengers and Mighty Avengers is probably the worst rubbish on the market right now. In my opinion there is no Avengers book anymore. I hope this doesn't happen to Spiderman also. Strong start that quickly fades into crap because Marvel no longer thinks beyond the next story arc that they can quickly release as a trade or fancy hardcover. They have ruined the Avengers and Iron Man with their short sited ideas. How will they hype the Iron Man movie now that they have turned Stark into a self righteous ass. Oh, I know. Just before summer we'll make everyone forget that Civil War happened. No problem.


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Smithville Thunderbolt




He's off base for three reasons:

1) He's basing a lot on the Knightfall analogy. That story involved radical progression, whereas this one involves radical regression.

2) The Batman editors hadn't been talking for years about how they wanted to get rid of Bruce Wayne.

3) Knightfall is an interesting narrative on its own merits, while "One More Day" is a transparent contrivance.


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Scott




I used to like the Avengers books until OMD confused the hell out of them. I guess there is no point in picking up any more issues as the ones I already bought have been rendered dysfunctional.

> > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=2956
> > >
> > > Apologies for the long link but I'll be a wheatcake eatin' fool if this doesn't actually sound plausible. . .
> >
> > The hullaballoo over the end of the marriage will be over in a couple of months. Indeed most of the feedback I've seen across the net on #546 is broadly positive - at least 70/30. Marvel got this kind of flak over "Avengers Disassembled" and yet in the three years since they have only ever moved forward...
>
> Yes, but the New Avengers and Mighty Avengers is probably the worst rubbish on the market right now. In my opinion there is no Avengers book anymore. I hope this doesn't happen to Spiderman also. Strong start that quickly fades into crap because Marvel no longer thinks beyond the next story arc that they can quickly release as a trade or fancy hardcover. They have ruined the Avengers and Iron Man with their short sited ideas. How will they hype the Iron Man movie now that they have turned Stark into a self righteous ass. Oh, I know. Just before summer we'll make everyone forget that Civil War happened. No problem.


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jwd




> > http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=2956
> >
> > Apologies for the long link but I'll be a wheatcake eatin' fool if this doesn't actually sound plausible. . .
>
> The hullaballoo over the end of the marriage will be over in a couple of months. Indeed most of the feedback I've seen across the net on #546 is broadly positive - at least 70/30. Marvel got this kind of flak over "Avengers Disassembled" and yet in the three years since they have only ever moved forward...

Avengers doesn't have the same level of popularity that Spider-Man has. Initial reviews might be positive but there's still 3 more creative teams for people to get through also. Some might think the current creative team is good but I'm sure a few won't like the others and just decide to drop it all together.

There's no way the hullaballo will end in a couple of months. I'm sure it'll die down some but it'll keep coming up for years probably.

jwd



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Blargh




That's the Internet opinion, but in reality, NA is Marvel's top selling title. Not sure about Mighty Avengers exact sales, but I bet they're pretty high too.

> Yes, but the New Avengers and Mighty Avengers is probably the worst rubbish on the market right now. In my opinion there is no Avengers book anymore. I hope this doesn't happen to Spiderman also. Strong start that quickly fades into crap because Marvel no longer thinks beyond the next story arc that they can quickly release as a trade or fancy hardcover. They have ruined the Avengers and Iron Man with their short sited ideas. How will they hype the Iron Man movie now that they have turned Stark into a self righteous ass. Oh, I know. Just before summer we'll make everyone forget that Civil War happened. No problem.


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Dave Phelps




> That's the Internet opinion, but in reality, NA is Marvel's top selling title. Not sure about Mighty Avengers exact sales, but I bet they're pretty high too.

I think the "silent majority" was thrilled to be able to get Wolverine and Spider-Man in the same book. More efficient that way. ;\) Also, the book has had incentive variants or been involved in one event or another since it started so there's no way to what the "true fanbase" of the book is.

That said, Avengers has been a top 20/30 book for decades, no matter how popular or unpopular the creative team has been. Some folks just like their team books and don't care what the "critics" think.


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Blargh





> I think the "silent majority" was thrilled to be able to get Wolverine and Spider-Man in the same book. More efficient that way. ;\) Also, the book has had incentive variants or been involved in one event or another since it started so there's no way to what the "true fanbase" of the book is.

The book has been involved in a total of one event (Civil War) though the team and characters have appeared in others and the book will be in Secret Invasion.

I haven't noticed an overt amount of variants. There was the first arc that had variants of each member by itself + a beautiful team variant, and then second printing ones on Civil War. No more, no less than any other new, hit title.

>
> That said, Avengers has been a top 20/30 book for decades, no matter how popular or unpopular the creative team has been. Some folks just like their team books and don't care what the "critics" think.

If anything, the critics agree with the buyers. It's The Internet opinion that doesn't. And being a top 30 book is nothing to brag about. I think Cable/Deadpool is a top 30 book, and they go out at about 40,000 copies sold. For a team as important as Avengers, and titles such as Cap and IRon Man, to the MU, they should also be top sellers, and the current creative teams are doing that quite well than in the recent (5-7 years ago) past.


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Dave Phelps




> > I think the "silent majority" was thrilled to be able to get Wolverine and Spider-Man in the same book. More efficient that way. ;\)

By the way, I just wanted to mention that I think this is a key selling point for the non-Interneters.

> > Also, the book has had incentive variants or been involved in one event or another since it started so there's no way to what the "true fanbase" of the book is.
>
> The book has been involved in a total of one event (Civil War) though the team and characters have appeared in others and the book will be in Secret Invasion.

#16-20 dealt with the aftermath of House of M, #21-25 was Civil War, #26-31 (or thereabouts) was "the Initiative" (took awhile for folks to realize that wasn't necessarily an event, but the banner on the cover appeared to help bump up sales on books) and since then they've been gearing up for Secret Invasion.

> I haven't noticed an overt amount of variants. There was the first arc that had variants of each member by itself + a beautiful team variant, and then second printing ones on Civil War. No more, no less than any other new, hit title.

I know for a fact they had incentive variants on #7-10, cause I bought 'em. \:\) I'm not sure about since then.

(And I think any book, whether I like it or not, that uses variants is attempting to inflate their numbers so we don't get a feel for what the true readership really is.)

> > That said, Avengers has been a top 20/30 book for decades, no matter how popular or unpopular the creative team has been. Some folks just like their team books and don't care what the "critics" think.
>
> If anything, the critics agree with the buyers.

Since when? I almost never see a positive review of Avengers. Unless you mean the buyers who pick the book up even though they hate it, in which case, sure, okay. ;\)

> It's The Internet opinion that doesn't. And being a top 30 book is nothing to brag about.

Top 30 has expanded a bit in recent years, thanks to stuff like Countdown, various event books, etc. In terms of regular ongoings, I don't think Avengers has dipped below top 20 in a long time, if ever.

> For a team as important as Avengers, and titles such as Cap and IRon Man, to the MU, they should also be top sellers, and the current creative teams are doing that quite well than in the recent (5-7 years ago) past.

Sure. I just think there's more to it than everyone loving the book except for a handful of cranky Internet people. I'm sure it would still sell perfectly well without the gimmicks, but we have no real indication either way.


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Blargh





> #16-20 dealt with the aftermath of House of M,

It did, but it didn't have a House of M banner on it. Just because an arc follows up on an event doesn't make it an event, just as PAD dealt with The Other aftermath in FNSM but that didn't make 70% of PAD's run an event.

> Since when? I almost never see a positive review of Avengers. Unless you mean the buyers who pick the book up even though they hate it, in which case, sure, okay. ;\)

We can debate "Oh I hate it but I buy it cause blah blah" some other time, but:

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/miniseries/Avengers/index.html
Never dips below 3 webs. I know not exactly a professional review, but it's something.

New Avengers #15 got "must read" and "check it" from IGN: http://comics.ign.com/articles/684/684435p1.html

But for a top selling book, it's safe to assume that most people buying it actually like it. I really don't think there are 70,000 people out there who will buy a book they hate.


> Sure. I just think there's more to it than everyone loving the book except for a handful of cranky Internet people. I'm sure it would still sell perfectly well without the gimmicks, but we have no real indication either way.

By sales, it sure seems that way. Marvel doesn't distinguish between "collector who hates the book" and "loves the book" purchases. That and the Avengers board generally seems to like NA with, as with any media, exceptions.




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NF




> Avengers doesn't have the same level of popularity that Spider-Man has.

Beg to differ.

> Initial reviews might be positive but there's still 3 more creative teams for people to get through also. Some might think the current creative team is good but I'm sure a few won't like the others and just decide to drop it all together.

Just like any other comic book relaunch.

> There's no way the hullaballo will end in a couple of months. I'm sure it'll die down some but it'll keep coming up for years probably.

Just like the "Bring Back Ben" brigade, in dwindling numbers, which has been SO SUCCESSFUL over the past twelve years... *rhe*


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NF




> I used to like the Avengers books until OMD confused the hell out of them. I guess there is no point in picking up any more issues as the ones I already bought have been rendered dysfunctional.

The marriage was referred to in approximately two issues. And it was pivotal to the plot in exactly none of them. So, how have any of them been rendered disfunctional?


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Smithville Thunderbolt




> > I used to like the Avengers books until OMD confused the hell out of them. I guess there is no point in picking up any more issues as the ones I already bought have been rendered dysfunctional.
>
> The marriage was referred to in approximately two issues. And it was pivotal to the plot in exactly none of them. So, how have any of them been rendered disfunctional?

I think he may be referring to how the Avengers were portrayed in Spidey's own books. It is hard to reconcile Spidey's relationship with the team now with what was portrayed before (if the team doesn't have any memory of his identity, that changes just about every story they appeared in).


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jwd




> > Avengers doesn't have the same level of popularity that Spider-Man has.
>
> Beg to differ.

Well okay will just have to agree to diagree. \:\)
I think Spider-Man is the most recognizable Marvel hero there is.

> > There's no way the hullaballo will end in a couple of months. I'm sure it'll die down some but it'll keep coming up for years probably.
>
> Just like the "Bring Back Ben" brigade, in dwindling numbers, which has been SO SUCCESSFUL over the past twelve years... *rhe*

I never said the "Bring back the marriage" brigade would succeeed. Just that its not going to go away in a couple of months.

jwd



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