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Michael




There's been a lot of comments lately about Slott writing Peter as immature, which is why this review of Web of Spider-Man 55 raised some interesting questions for me:
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/web_of_spider-man_55.shtml
"Joy Mercado stops Peter and asks him to talk to Glory, who they both know has been having a relationship with Eduardo Lobo. So Peter goes to talk to Glory, and in the best of all possible openings, Glory tells Peter without prompting that she's been dating a criminal and wants his advice. And Peter just... i mean, WTF, Peter? What's going on here?"
"He's late to meet Mary Jane at the latest dump of an apartment they are considering renting, but that's at least partially just an excuse for Peter being (in his own words) "lame" and "cliched". I guess he's at least got this insight: "When it comes to personal problems, I'm no better handling someone else's than I am at handling my own." I've seen him do better than this, but i guess if this is deliberate characterization it's a little better. One of the criticisms of Spider-Man being allowed to get older is that they still write him like the kid with all the hang-ups from the early years, and now that he's married and has a job, he just looks like basketcase instead of a mixed up kid. I guess this is a good example of that."
Now, if Slott had written this, we'd be up in arms. So was Peter portrayed immaturely even before Slott?
Michael




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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,617



    Quote:
    There's been a lot of comments lately about Slott writing Peter as immature, which is why this review of Web of Spider-Man 55 raised some interesting questions for me:
    http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/web_of_spider-man_55.shtml
    "Joy Mercado stops Peter and asks him to talk to Glory, who they both know has been having a relationship with Eduardo Lobo. So Peter goes to talk to Glory, and in the best of all possible openings, Glory tells Peter without prompting that she's been dating a criminal and wants his advice. And Peter just... i mean, WTF, Peter? What's going on here?"
    "He's late to meet Mary Jane at the latest dump of an apartment they are considering renting, but that's at least partially just an excuse for Peter being (in his own words) "lame" and "cliched". I guess he's at least got this insight: "When it comes to personal problems, I'm no better handling someone else's than I am at handling my own." I've seen him do better than this, but i guess if this is deliberate characterization it's a little better. One of the criticisms of Spider-Man being allowed to get older is that they still write him like the kid with all the hang-ups from the early years, and now that he's married and has a job, he just looks like basketcase instead of a mixed up kid. I guess this is a good example of that."
    Now, if Slott had written this, we'd be up in arms. So was Peter portrayed immaturely even before Slott?
    Michael



It is always possible to find moments where some author wrote the pre-OMD Peter in a way that can - plausibly or at a stretch - be interpreted as immature. After all, there were bad writers back then too and even as great a writer as Gerry Conway (IMO one of the top three writers in Spider-Man's entire history) can have his off-days. So even if this were a clear-cut example of Peter acting immaturely it would have to be weighed against Peter's general behaviour at the time. And one of the most common arguments for undoing the marriage used by the proponents of OMD/OMIT/MOUSE was that since the wedding Peter had become too old and stuffy, in other words too mature. And the extreme difference between Peter's 1987-2007 and post-OMD behaviour was immediately noticed both by the supporters of NuSpidey and the sceptics.

Personally, I think Peter always acted pretty maturely, even when he still went to high school he was more mature than you would have expected a typical 1960s American teenager to behave. He acted a lot like his first writer Stan Lee who grew up during the Depression and was forced to grow up and get a job quickly.

The scene in WOSM #55 is not one of Peter's stellar moments, but does it show him acting immaturely? I'm not convinced. For one thing, being "lame" and "clichéd" in one's response to a situation does not necessarily equate to immature - you could say thes words also about a lot of stuff that e. g. Aunt May or JJJ say. And wouldn't a variation of "say no to dating criminals" have come over as just as trite and clichéd as what he in fact did say? Also, I would dispute that Glory Grant provided "the best of all possible openings" for Peter. It was actually a pretty bad opening, because what he had wanted to do was to tell her that her boyfriend was a criminal (presumably hoping that this revelation would be enough to make her put an end to her amour fou), and now it turned out unexpectedly that she already knew. Also, it is worth recalling that although a lot of readers weren't aware of it Glory is not insignificantly older and more experienced than Peter (Gerry Conway as her creator would have remembered). So he would have felt an understandable reluctance to peremptorily tell Glory how to run her private affairs.




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TVGirl

sorryspoderman



You're quoting from an obviously biased reading of Web 55 by someone who wants to prop up Slott's current characterization.

I didn't see anything immature about Peter's actions in Web 55. If anything, it's a sign of maturity to be self-aware and recognize when you are acting in a less than optimum manner.

To quote from the actual text: "This is exactly what I want to talk to Glory about, but now that I'm here...she's so despairing I don't know what to say." In other words, Peter is being empathetic - a sign of being an emotional grown up - and doesn't want to cause his friend more pain and anguish.

In addition, and I know from experience, most men aren't exactly comfortable around women crying over their relationships. I can just see the criticism now if Peter stayed to have a heart-to-heart with Glory: "He's a wuss! He's not manly enough!" Besides, Peter's advice - on the face of it - isn't terrible. Glory is a good person, she knows Eduardo is a criminal so Peter isn't neglecting his duty to warn her, and there's no reason for Peter not to trust that Glory will do the right thing. The fact that she doesn't is what makes this a story - and one with some emotional heft, unlike 99% of Slott's output.

And when people are saying Peter is acting immature in Slott: it's not because he's beating himself up over not giving a friend comfort. Slott's Peter doesn't even realize WHEN to beat himself up. Slott's Peter is selfish and out for yuks and rarely, if ever, stops to think about the consequences of his actions on others - just like a child, who has yet to learn that the world doesn't revolve solely around his/her wants and desires.

In Web 55, Peter is emotionally mature - he is aware of others' feelings. And he scolds himself for not acting better. But being mature doesn't mean being perfect and never, ever making a mistake. Being an adult means you have the maturity to recognize WHEN you made a mistake. This is as far from being a basketcase as possible.

Slott's Peter, on the other hand, is a perpetual prepubescent emotionally (with the hormones of a teenager, but not going there). Even though Slott himself has pegged Peter as 28 years old - 13 years since the spider-bite at 15. So really, no matter how "relatable" Marvel wants Spider-Man to be to younger readers, his current behavior is starting to look ridiculous.


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Comp 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    And when people are saying Peter is acting immature in Slott: it's not because he's beating himself up over not giving a friend comfort. Slott's Peter doesn't even realize WHEN to beat himself up. Slott's Peter is selfish and out for yuks and rarely, if ever, stops to think about the consequences of his actions on others - just like a child, who has yet to learn that the world doesn't revolve solely around his/her wants and desires.


The degree of intent in this is interesting. One of the issues of Amazing Spider-Man I picked up last month had Peter say this outright--that he's self-centered. So I think Slott does see this as a central element to the character. The funny thing is that I can see Peter Parker saying that in some contexts. It just wouldn't actually be true.

-Comp





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Comicguy1




But once JMS left, and after the retcon of the marriage and the return to the 1960's/70's status quo, Peter was more or less at square one. So yes, he was immature, but he was also an adult for a great period of time. I mean, he was also with the Avengers (Remember that.).


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