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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,260


I still would have LOVED to have seen the story play out as planned. It obviously was not meant to go on for two years, and Norman Osborn (And Stromm?)wasn't supposed to return or have anything to do with this. I've read The Life Of Reilly column (More than once, for sure.)that details EVERYTHING about this, but I'm still not sure what the original plan was. Was Aunt May supposed to die (She should have STAYED dead!) in #400? Was Peter supposed to become Spiderman again, or was he supposed to just live a normal life with MJ (Along with their child.)? I know that Ben was going to be Spiderman and have his own book, but were both of them going to be Spidey? Was The Jackal supposed to be brought back, etc. I think that things would have been a LOT different if the original storyline played out. What issue/title was the ending planned for? Their was true potential that obviously got derailed (Probably not for the better.). Thanks.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,318




    Quote:
    I still would have LOVED to have seen the story play out as planned. It obviously was not meant to go on for two years, and Norman Osborn (And Stromm?)wasn't supposed to return or have anything to do with this. I've read The Life Of Reilly column (More than once, for sure.)that details EVERYTHING about this, but I'm still not sure what the original plan was. Was Aunt May supposed to die (She should have STAYED dead!) in #400? Was Peter supposed to become Spiderman again, or was he supposed to just live a normal life with MJ (Along with their child.)? I know that Ben was going to be Spiderman and have his own book, but were both of them going to be Spidey? Was The Jackal supposed to be brought back, etc. I think that things would have been a LOT different if the original storyline played out. What issue/title was the ending planned for? Their was true potential that obviously got derailed (Probably not for the better.). Thanks.


It really sounds like they never really did agree on how to end it.

I was a little bummed to find out the original intent was to give Peter a baby so Ben could take over because they were sick of writing married Peter. Because the best part of the clone saga to me was the relationship Ben had with Peter and MJ...Peter finally had a blood relative to talk to! And MJ had someone she could talk to ABOUT Peter and her problems. It was great. Peter and MJ always lied to everyone they knew (their friends, family, co-workers) about their problem or they didn't really socialize much with other heroes as friends. Ben was someone to talk to.

But it sounds like the family dynamic Ben brought with him which was the thing I liked best about the clone saga was created by accident. And as much as I love having Ben Reilly back...the dynamic didn't come back with him. MJ and Peter are no longer married. Peter and Ben don't get along. The baby was erased from history. (although with Ben and Aunt May both alive at the same time maybe they can FINALLY meet)



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Rodimus


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,404



    Quote:


      Quote:
      I still would have LOVED to have seen the story play out as planned. It obviously was not meant to go on for two years, and Norman Osborn (And Stromm?)wasn't supposed to return or have anything to do with this. I've read The Life Of Reilly column (More than once, for sure.)that details EVERYTHING about this, but I'm still not sure what the original plan was. Was Aunt May supposed to die (She should have STAYED dead!) in #400? Was Peter supposed to become Spiderman again, or was he supposed to just live a normal life with MJ (Along with their child.)? I know that Ben was going to be Spiderman and have his own book, but were both of them going to be Spidey? Was The Jackal supposed to be brought back, etc. I think that things would have been a LOT different if the original storyline played out. What issue/title was the ending planned for? Their was true potential that obviously got derailed (Probably not for the better.). Thanks.



    Quote:
    It really sounds like they never really did agree on how to end it.



    Quote:
    I was a little bummed to find out the original intent was to give Peter a baby so Ben could take over because they were sick of writing married Peter. Because the best part of the clone saga to me was the relationship Ben had with Peter and MJ...Peter finally had a blood relative to talk to! And MJ had someone she could talk to ABOUT Peter and her problems. It was great. Peter and MJ always lied to everyone they knew (their friends, family, co-workers) about their problem or they didn't really socialize much with other heroes as friends. Ben was someone to talk to.



    Quote:
    But it sounds like the family dynamic Ben brought with him which was the thing I liked best about the clone saga was created by accident. And as much as I love having Ben Reilly back...the dynamic didn't come back with him. MJ and Peter are no longer married. Peter and Ben don't get along. The baby was erased from history. (although with Ben and Aunt May both alive at the same time maybe they can FINALLY meet)


There was a "Spider-Man: Clone Saga" LS from 2009-2010:
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Spider-Man:_The_Clone_Saga_Vol_1

It told what I'm think was the original idea for the Clone Saga, or one of them. I read it a long time ago, when it came out.




- Rodimus




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Zarius


Member Since: Sun Sep 03, 2017
Posts: 236


That was a good read. Probably the only canon where May got to meet Ben AND her grand niece.


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D. Strange


Member Since: Tue Sep 19, 2017
Posts: 272


100% agree about Pete and MJ. I always thought that relationship made him better. He had someone to not ONLY talk to, but sometimes help him get out of his own head sometimes.

I love pre-marriage Pete, but there were times he needed that person to tell him he needs to get over himself, and remind him ha had some good things in the world as well.

I thought it was a very natural evolution to bring to the character.

Dan Slott disagrees.


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,063


(1) The out of the blue return of the previously believed to be dead Spider Clone who happened to have had an epistolary relationship with Aunt May for years.

(2) The unresolved mystery of the skeleton of another dead Spider Clone which may suggest that Ben Reilly wasn't the same clone than the one who died in the 1970s story.

(3) The revelation that Kaine is a Spider Clone failed prototype who tried to kill at the same time Spider-Man's main rogues gallery (because he is a precog and one of them might kill MJ in the future) and Ben Reilly (because he believes that Peter Parker is his clone brother and he doesn't want Ben Reilly to replace him).

(4) The mysterious come-back of the Jackal as a green werejackal without any real explanation about Miles Warren's previous Carrion experiments.

(5) The unexplained mystery of the degeneration of the Jackal's clones (a rip-off of the Blade Runner Replicants ?) whereas the cloning technology previously used by Doctor Doom, Arnim Zola & Mister Sinister worked just fine.

(6) Traveller & Scrier, two deus ex machina mystical characters who wasted their free time watching what happened to Peter Parker & Ben Reilly.

Et cetera (I am far from exhaustive).

Oh my god, it is so sad that I can still remember so much of this mess in 2017 ... \:\-\(

Frankly, it is obvious that it was automatic writing.
They were inventing this thriller as it went along.
They had absolutely no idea what they were doing, where they were going and how they would end this storyline.
The only thing that mattered was that the storyline was selling books at a time when the comics' decline in sales started.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,318




    Quote:
    (1) The out of the blue return of the previously believed to be dead Spider Clone who happened to have had an epistolary relationship with Aunt May for years.



    Quote:
    (2) The unresolved mystery of the skeleton of another dead Spider Clone which may suggest that Ben Reilly wasn't the same clone than the one who died in the 1970s story.



    Quote:
    (3) The revelation that Kaine is a Spider Clone failed prototype who tried to kill at the same time Spider-Man's main rogues gallery (because he is a precog and one of them might kill MJ in the future) and Ben Reilly (because he believes that Peter Parker is his clone brother and he doesn't want Ben Reilly to replace him).



    Quote:
    (4) The mysterious come-back of the Jackal as a green werejackal without any real explanation about Miles Warren's previous Carrion experiments.



    Quote:
    (5) The unexplained mystery of the degeneration of the Jackal's clones (a rip-off of the Blade Runner Replicants ?) whereas the cloning technology previously used by Doctor Doom, Arnim Zola & Mister Sinister worked just fine.



    Quote:
    (6) Traveller & Scrier, two deus ex machina mystical characters who wasted their free time watching what happened to Peter Parker & Ben Reilly.



    Quote:
    Et cetera (I am far from exhaustive).



    Quote:
    Oh my god, it is so sad that I can still remember so much of this mess in 2017 ... \:\-\(



    Quote:
    Frankly, it is obvious that it was automatic writing.
    They were inventing this thriller as it went along.
    They had absolutely no idea what they were doing, where they were going and how they would end this storyline.
    The only thing that mattered was that the storyline was selling books at a time when the comics' decline in sales started.


The sad thing is I thought the early parts were good. Power and Responsibility and Web of Life were good IMO. It was when Kaine, Jackal, Spidercide got added that it got worse and it devalued both Ben and Peter. That original angle where Spider-Man was running away from being Peter Parker while this clone wanted nothing more than to have that life that Peter wanted to walk away from was interesting to me. And Ben just sort of had a unique perspective. He wasn't the original and he wasn't some clone who had just recently been created. He had 5 years living in exile and his life revolved around protecting someone else's identity. He was beholden to a guy who didn't know he was still alive and that really wouldn't appreciate it if he knew. That original angle for him worked really well. It's when they tried to make him the real Peter that they screwed up Ben or when they introduced other clones. He was great as the one clone who had to live 5 years knowing that and still finding a way to carve out a life for himself.


If the second clone saga had kept Ben as the clone and as the ONLY clone I don't think Ben would have been unpopular.



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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,260


That was because the editors (Or rather, marketing.) kept on dragging it out. The writers have stated multiple times that it was SUPPOSED to be a finite storyarc, about six months or so. But it was selling so well, and then Marvel kept on continuing the story. Even after reading The Life Of Reilly though, I'm not sure what the original ending was supposed to be, if they had plans for Kaine, if Warren was supposed to return (Probably.), etc. From other stuff that I read, the purpose of this story was to dissolve the marriage of Peter and MJ. I think that if the original storyline had played out, the books from that point on would be a LOT different, and heck, Brand New Day might not have even happened.


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