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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761


Jesusfan, speculate away! ;\)







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servo


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 517


Where is this from?


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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,314




    Quote:
    Where is this from?


Trinity #8





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong.
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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,314



This, and elsewhere, explains why Superman experienced a power loss in the Superman: Lois and Clark title.

But someone of such power as Dr. Manhattan, why would he consider Superman a threat that he needs to be weakened or altered? Why not just snuff Superman out of existence? Surely Manhattan is powerful enough to do that.

I guess we'll get our answer soon.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong.
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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761



    Quote:

    This, and elsewhere, explains why Superman experienced a power loss in the Superman: Lois and Clark title.


New 52 Superman was half of the equation, and strong for days. Not sure this tracks, though that's probably the route they'll go.


    Quote:

    But someone of such power as Dr. Manhattan, why would he consider Superman a threat that he needs to be weakened or altered? Why not just snuff Superman out of existence? Surely Manhattan is powerful enough to do that.


Because you can't wipe Superman from existence. We just saw that in Superman Reborn.





R. I. P. Kato: A good friend to one who has so few
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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 37,232



It does make sense. Introduced from the very start as an astoundingly dumbed down and volatile take on the character the New-52 Superman was often contradictory and schizophrenic in presentation - at turns admirably self-sacrificing and adamant on helping the helpless, and on others a damaged aloof outcast who was either moodily distant or unforgivably violent. With some particular writers holding him as every bit as heroic and wondrous as he ever was in the past, too many others pushed forward with the bitterest aspects of the New-52 ethos and determinedly ground down Superman's potency and self-belief to the point where he was the least 'Super man' of them all... his lot was too often a constant struggle, not just within himself, but with the demands of a role he seemed fundamentally ill-equipped to deal with. Few could argue that after five years of exposure to that treatment the contrast between he and the returning Superman seen in Convergence and Lois & Clark was very nearly the difference between night and day... an old close and dear friend had come back to save the day. And in more ways than the one.

A godlike being who can restructure reality and targets Superman for elimination is nothing at all new to the Superman mythos, and in every such tale those beings have been seen to be still limited by the clay they are working with and, in the end, their own unadmitted self-limitations.
It is perfectly possible for a Doctor Manhattan or Time Trapper to kill Superman outright, in principle at least, in practice though the deed is not without its repercussions and for a scientist like Manhattan it is the experiment at hand that concerns him, whether his taking advantage of the Flashpoint effect was chance or planned it does appear that he saw the opportunity as a means to conduct a sociological examination and reduce the Earth to a more bleak fearful place to live in and see what course it took. To make this experiment work he had to proportionately diminish the power and potency of the superhuman hero population by deleting a decade from their natural growth and at the same time ensuring that the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman failed to rise to the status where they could, by strength of their own personality and example, act as figureheads and icons for the fearful masses... in a peculiar way the as yet unseen Manhattan Is acting out the same mandate and philosophy as Darkseid himself.
But the notion that Superman is an integral part of the universes structure and a nexus point to the meta-textual is not at all a new development. That the meta-physical Doctor Manhattan might respect and be wary of his place in the scheme of things is perfectly in line with what we have seen of previous such problems - the Mandrakk's, the Dominus', and Vyndktvx's have all faced the same dilemma as this, and all have had to face up to the reality of their own limitations in regards to this... it isn't a question of power, so much a war of philosophies and ideas. Superman is the physical and meta-physical embodiment of one set of universal principles, the likes of Doctor Manhattan and Dominus are representatives of the other. And this then is what we are seeing being played out with the Rebirth mission and its ultimate destination in whatever it is that Geoff Johns is charged with developing...



















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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761




    Quote:
    . . .Superman is the physical and meta-physical embodiment of one set of universal principles, the likes of Doctor Manhattan and Dominus are representatives of the other. And this then is what we are seeing being played out with the Rebirth mission and its ultimate destination in whatever it is that Geoff Johns is charged with developing...


Very well said. \(yes\)


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And these I will add to my collection. Thanks for that!




R. I. P. Kato: A good friend to one who has so few
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,751


Why not have Superman is sorta like how Marvel view Adam Warlock for a time, as the godslayer, who represented life and light, and not even the more powerful Thanos, his counterpart, could really slay/stop him!

Superman maybe has a direct link into the presense or some other powerful entity in the DCU, maybe even Mxy in a weird way as his back?


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,751


There seems tio be much more to both Supes and Jon than meets the eye?


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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761


I'm inclined to agree, there's is definitely more, much more, than meets the eye.




R. I. P. Kato: A good friend to one who has so few
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Superman's Pal

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,535



    Quote:
    I'm inclined to agree, there's is definitely more, much more, than meets the eye.

Are you suggesting they might be Robots in Disguise?



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liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761


Good eye! \(yes\)




R. I. P. Kato: A good friend to one who has so few
Posted with Google Chrome 57.0.2987.133 on Windows 10
liheibao


Member Since: Thu May 07, 2009
Posts: 2,761



    Quote:

    It does make sense. Introduced from the very start as an astoundingly dumbed down and volatile take on the character the New-52 Superman was often contradictory and schizophrenic in presentation - at turns admirably self-sacrificing and adamant on helping the helpless, and on others a damaged aloof outcast who was either moodily distant or unforgivably violent. With some particular writers holding him as every bit as heroic and wondrous as he ever was in the past, too many others pushed forward with the bitterest aspects of the New-52 ethos and determinedly ground down Superman's potency and self-belief to the point where he was the least 'Super man' of them all... his lot was too often a constant struggle, not just within himself, but with the demands of a role he seemed fundamentally ill-equipped to deal with. Few could argue that after five years of exposure to that treatment the contrast between he and the returning Superman seen in Convergence and Lois & Clark was very nearly the difference between night and day... an old close and dear friend had come back to save the day. And in more ways than the one.


He needed more moments like this:






R. I. P. Kato: A good friend to one who has so few
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