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Author
Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 1,585


In the old days, Thor worshiped Odin like a god, not just as a father. The God of gods. Odin was deemed to be All-Wise, All-Knowing and Justice Incarnate. These days, the faith is largely absent. This is not because of Aaron. Thor's love for Odin has been on the decline for years, maybe even decades.

First came Blood and Thunder. Thor went mad; the result of Odin having tampered with Thor's spirit. They've had their spats over the years, but this was first strong crack in their relationship. Then came the Godpack era, when Thor was effectively ex-communicated from Asgard and Red Norvell was resurrected to replace him (as Odin's true son). This probably set the course of their continued relationship. No longer was Odin the equivalent of God, he was merely a spiteful father running his own agenda.

This continued over into the death of Eric Masterson, which Thor blamed on Odin. Then Worldengine occurred, and Onslaught, and the Dark Gods in the aftermath of Worldengine and Seth.

Odin was again the All-Father with the restoration under Jurgens. But did their relationship ever fully heal?

Post-Ragnarok, with the resurrection of Odin under Fraction, their relationship seemed to be back at Godpack-era levels of animosity.

Thor said during their fight in FEAR ITSELF, 'This is not the Asgard of old. You hold not the sway you once had.'

With the revelation of Cul, and Odin's later alliance with Cul, I think its safe to say that Thor is pretty deep into his disdain for Odin. It's baked into their relationship at this point.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,759


Sure, I think it varies a little but but Odin has done a fair bit to warrant a level of distrust and disdain. Some of it was big picture stuff but usually it still exploded and caused major issues for all sorts.

It does seem that it is a direction many writers are following up on as time progresses. Both because things have happened and maybe because issues with parents is usually a topic of interest to most.




Look Raist bunnies...
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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 1,585



    Quote:
    Sure, I think it varies a little but but Odin has done a fair bit to warrant a level of distrust and disdain. Some of it was big picture stuff but usually it still exploded and caused major issues for all sorts.



    Quote:
    It does seem that it is a direction many writers are following up on as time progresses. Both because things have happened and maybe because issues with parents is usually a topic of interest to most.


Thor started off as being unquestioning and loyal to Odin, but I think he's been bitten once too often and its difficult to put that conflict back in the box. Even if the various reasons have largely been forgotten as a plot issue.

You could even say this began before Blood and Thunder to some extent.

We notice that Odin seems to turn darker over time, but it could be a reflection of how his relationship with Thor has turned sour. It gets glossed over by most writers, and they decide to simply depict Odin as a jerk.

Now when Odin acts spiteful, he's just being himself, rather than being impersonated by Mangog or Loki.


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Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 134



    Quote:
    In the old days, Thor worshiped Odin like a god, not just as a father. The God of gods. Odin was deemed to be All-Wise, All-Knowing and Justice Incarnate. These days, the faith is largely absent. This is not because of Aaron. Thor's love for Odin has been on the decline for years, maybe even decades.


I think its more a question of having some conflict or friction (between characters - which makes for a better story).

Thor always loved his father, but there was always friction between the two over:

- Thor's responsibilities to Asgard vs. his responsibilities to Earth...which was usually a sort of contrived plot device that needed something like the Odin-sleep to make sense because Odin should always be able to look after Asgard.

- Thor's love for mortals (in particular Jane)...Odin likely protecting his son from the pain of watching Jane grow old and die.


    Quote:
    First came Blood and Thunder. Thor went mad; the result of Odin having tampered with Thor's spirit. They've had their spats over the years, but this was first strong crack in their relationship. Then came the Godpack era, when Thor was effectively ex-communicated from Asgard and Red Norvell was resurrected to replace him (as Odin's true son). This probably set the course of their continued relationship. No longer was Odin the equivalent of God, he was merely a spiteful father running his own agenda.


Odin had sort of done stuff like this in the past:

- He halved Thor's strength to teach him a lesson when he fought Hercules
- He had banished Thor from Asgard in the past too
- He fought against Thor when he allied with the Eternals

So these things had happened before, of course in the past ultimately Thor had always loved and respected his father.


    Quote:
    This continued over into the death of Eric Masterson, which Thor blamed on Odin. Then Worldengine occurred, and Onslaught, and the Dark Gods in the aftermath of Worldengine and Seth.



    Quote:
    Odin was again the All-Father with the restoration under Jurgens. But did their relationship ever fully heal?



    Quote:
    Post-Ragnarok, with the resurrection of Odin under Fraction, their relationship seemed to be back at Godpack-era levels of animosity.


What Fraction seemed to do was bring back the rash, impetuous and barbaric version of Thor. Basically the rebellious 'Young Thor' of Aaron's Three Thors storyline.

This Thor had little or no respect for his father meaning that when any friction occurs their conflict is far more bitter.


    Quote:
    Thor said during their fight in FEAR ITSELF, 'This is not the Asgard of old. You hold not the sway you once had.'



    Quote:
    With the revelation of Cul, and Odin's later alliance with Cul, I think its safe to say that Thor is pretty deep into his disdain for Odin. It's baked into their relationship at this point.


Certainly Fraction and Aaron have not depicted male authority figures in a positive light which in their minds presumably justifies any subsequent disrespecting of them.

Aaron in particular has portrayed Odin as a mass murderer whereas before he was an honourable warrior-king who would imprison defeated foes rather than execute his enemies.




You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 876



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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,782


I think part of it is changing social attitudes. Society used to have a greater trust/respect for authority, be more religious and possibly even less judgmental. People could accept a darkness or complexity in characters I am not sure they can accept now days. Now, you have to be in one category or the other.

The other problem is Odin. Let's face it. He has always had a very unpleasant side. At times, he acts more like an ill-tempered child than a wise god-king. Often, someone has to go through ten levels of a-hole just to get him to listen to tell him something important. His plans often have collateral damage that he has little regret for. Too much of any of this and a reader can lose sympathy.

Why should Thor respect someone like that?
I think another problem is the softer moments are few and far between. It has become rare for Odin to show his softer or wiser side.

For comparison look at Zeus. Used to he was portrayed as a more balanced figure. I can't think of an instance in the last decade or so he was portrayed as anything other than a caricature. At least, without turning him into an expy of the Jude-Christian God.


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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,782



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on MacOS X
Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 134





You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 1,585



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,759





Look Raist bunnies...
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