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Zarko


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Norvell


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Warhammer


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Upper_Krust


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You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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JesusFan


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,327



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 81.0 on Windows 10
JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,327



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 81.0 on Windows 10
JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,327



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Warhammer


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Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 507


Hey LGBT!

Current She-Hulk looks like she does purely because of progressive propaganda. The decision to couple up this Jen with Thor is simply further evidence of Thor's continued emasculation under Aaron and Marvel.

Maybe Al Ewing can make something interesting of this heavy handed relationship but lets just say its a story I'm totally turned off by.




You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576


How is it less masculine for a guy, especially like Thor to get with a big lady?

To be fair, I always thought the pair was really forced, but I don't really see it as less masculine for Thor to date a big freen lady with muscles.


cheers,
---the late great Donald Blake


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Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 507



    Quote:
    How is it less masculine for a guy, especially like Thor to get with a big lady?


I don't think the issue is necessarily She-Hulk's height, its the fact that she is a complete grotesque. There is basically nothing feminine about her.

That said, culturally only 4% of WOMEN will date a guy who is shorter than them while (IIRC) about 28% of guys will date a taller woman. So clearly for 84% of the population its a big turn off.


    Quote:
    To be fair, I always thought the pair was really forced, but I don't really see it as less masculine for Thor to date a big freen lady with muscles.


Thor and Jen (of the past) when she was sexy would have made for a great couple.

Thor dating an angry, grotesque behemoth (PURPOSEFULLY) always drawn bigger and more muscular than him is completely idiotic and a clear attempt to emasculate the character (and by extension the fans).

Classically Thor was the alpha male who dated all the babes. Now he's a simp getting man-handled by a monster.

Google Image search "She-Hulk and Thor kiss" in every kiss she is drawn DOMINANT in size, muscularity and positioning. That's by design.








You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,327


he just might like someone stronger then him!


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,327


Another example of gal power running amok in Marvel, thanks to Mickey Mouse!


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Warhammer


Member Since: Wed Feb 05, 2020
Posts: 133




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Warhammer


Member Since: Wed Feb 05, 2020
Posts: 133




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jazzbass6


Member Since: Tue Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 835


Ummm, no.... just....no.


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Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576




Posted with Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 on Windows 10
Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576




Posted with Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 on Windows 10
Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576


I don't think the issue is necessarily She-Hulk's height, its the fact that she is a complete grotesque. There is basically nothing feminine about her.


LGDB: Isn't this more a matter of taste. Like why does Thor have to be attracted to the same kind of ladies as you. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder right. And I don't know, I'd say there are presumably a few feminine things lol



That said, culturally only 4% of WOMEN will date a guy who is shorter than them while (IIRC) about 28% of guys will date a taller woman. So clearly for 84% of the population its a big turn off.\


LGDB: okay, but like what percentage of women are irradiated with gamma energy. Probably less.


Thor and Jen (of the past) when she was sexy would have made for a great couple.

Thor dating an angry, grotesque behemoth (PURPOSEFULLY) always drawn bigger and more muscular than him is completely idiotic and a clear attempt to emasculate the character (and by extension the fans).


LGDB: Well look at it this way. Who's to say which fans Thor should share taste with. I'm a attracted to guys, while you're attracted to Jessica Rabbit style ladies. If anything this is a pretty fair compromise.




Classically Thor was the alpha male who dated all the babes. Now he's a simp getting man-handled by a monster.

Google Image search "She-Hulk and Thor kiss" in every kiss she is drawn DOMINANT in size, muscularity and positioning. That's by design.


LGDB: Ugh... Thor just killed Galactus with his hammer. I'd say his masculinity shouldn't be in question just because he digs a girl with big arms.

And maybe the design is so big women or girls, or ladies who don't have a classically petite figure can see a full bodied woman getting with a prince. You ever think of that, huh? lol

You really think it's a nice thing to describe women who are larger or more muscular as monsters?

cheers,
---the late great Donald Blake


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Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576




Posted with Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 on Windows 10
Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 507



    Quote:
    I don't think the issue is necessarily She-Hulk's height, its the fact that she is a complete grotesque. There is basically nothing feminine about her.



    Quote:
    LGDB: Isn't this more a matter of taste.


...and 99%+ of men wouldn't find current She-Hulk remotely attractive. So who are Marvel pandering to by making her deliberately unattractive.

...and yes that's rhetorical.


    Quote:
    Like why does Thor have to be attracted to the same kind of ladies as you.


Its not about me, for 50 years of the comic Thor was attracted to classically beautiful women.

Insert Progessive Propaganda and all of a sudden he is dating one of/if not THE most grotesque woman in the Marvel Universe.


    Quote:
    Beauty's in the eye of the beholder right.


Individually yes, socially no.

99%+ of men are not attracted to current Shulkie. So who are Marvel aiming the comic and this relationship at?


    Quote:
    And I don't know, I'd say there are presumably a few feminine things lol


You are hardly the expert on the subject.

But let me ask you this, does Thor look MORE masculine in the kisses with She-Hulk or LESS masculine?


    Quote:
    That said, culturally only 4% of WOMEN will date a guy who is shorter than them while (IIRC) about 28% of guys will date a taller woman. So clearly for 84% of the population its a big turn off.\



    Quote:

    LGDB: okay, but like what percentage of women are irradiated with gamma energy. Probably less.


Well what we do know is that prior to 2015 the VAST percentage of women irradiated with Gamma energy were still classically beautiful.


    Quote:

    Thor and Jen (of the past) when she was sexy would have made for a great couple.



    Quote:
    Thor dating an angry, grotesque behemoth (PURPOSEFULLY) always drawn bigger and more muscular than him is completely idiotic and a clear attempt to emasculate the character (and by extension the fans).



    Quote:
    LGDB: Well look at it this way. Who's to say which fans Thor should share taste with.


50+ years of continuity. That's who.


    Quote:
    I'm a attracted to guys, while you're attracted to Jessica Rabbit style ladies.


Thor's been attracted to beautiful women for his entire run up until the insertion of the current political agenda.

...and since you mentioned it yes my girlfriend does actually look like Jessica Rabbit (albeit with dark hair). ;\-\)


    Quote:
    If anything this is a pretty fair compromise.


If by compromise you mean annoying the vast majority of straight guys (98% of the population) while being tolerated by some gay guys (2% of the population) by putting Thor in a relationship with an OVERTLY masculine woman in effect making it look like a gay relationship (which of course was the whole point Aaron started this relationship in the first place).


    Quote:

    Classically Thor was the alpha male who dated all the babes. Now he's a simp getting man-handled by a monster.



    Quote:
    Google Image search "She-Hulk and Thor kiss" in every kiss she is drawn DOMINANT in size, muscularity and positioning. That's by design.



    Quote:

    LGDB: Ugh... Thor just killed Galactus with his hammer. I'd say his masculinity shouldn't be in question just because he digs a girl with big arms.


Fortunately Donny Cates has YET to sully his run with this emasculating nonsense.

Of course in one title Thor still appears like a man while in two others he is completely emasculated.


    Quote:
    And maybe the design is so big women or girls, or ladies who don't have a classically petite figure can see a full bodied woman getting with a prince. You ever think of that, huh? lol


I don't think lying to them sets a good example.


    Quote:
    You really think it's a nice thing to describe women who are larger or more muscular as monsters?


Current She-Hulk is drawn as a monster. She is drawn no different to Hulk in a bra. Hulk is a monster and always has been described thus.




You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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Upper_Krust


Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
Posts: 507



    Quote:
    Another example of gal power running amok in Marvel, thanks to Mickey Mouse!


I don't think 'girl power' is the problem.

She-Hulk was always extremely powerful.

I think Mary Sue characters are certainly a problem at Marvel.
I think making female characters masculine (both in appearance and attitude) is a problem at Marvel.
I think emasculating male characters is a problem at Marvel.

But having powerful female characters is not the problem, girls and women should have heroic (yet still feminine) women as positive role models.




You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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Late Great Donald Blake


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,576


...and 99%+ of men wouldn't find current She-Hulk remotely attractive. So who are Marvel pandering to by making her deliberately unattractive.

...and yes that's rhetorical.'


LGDB: Yeah, I just don't think it's that extreme. I think you're taking a certain dominant standard of beauty and arguing that that's objective because it's popular. I don't think that's the case.



Its not about me, for 50 years of the comic Thor was attracted to classically beautiful women.

Insert Progessive Propaganda and all of a sudden he is dating one of/if not THE most grotesque woman in the Marvel Universe.


LGDB: You make it sound like a covert agenda or something. I just think the writers at Marvel have different values than you and they're writing their values. I don't think people develop their moral beliefs with a particular intention to supplant your own. For 50 years, standards of beauty have been changing. And I'm sure they'll change some more. Thor's a ficitonal character. There's not a particular psychology constraining the targets of his attraction. He's attracted to whomever the writers have be attracted to, and that's obviously subject to any number of things including cultural standards and the personal perceptions of the writers.




Individually yes, socially no.

99%+ of men are not attracted to current Shulkie. So who are Marvel aiming the comic and this relationship at?


LGBD: This would be more compelling if you weren't just inventing these numbers. lol But seriously, I mean, I just find it hard to believe that you don't understand that standards of beauty do have a tendency to change over a period of time. Also, I'm not really sure that it's clear that even if a majority of people in our society think a certain image of woman is attractive that a writer has to be bound to reflect that with any particular character. So even if it were the case that standards of what were beautiful and attractive were static and the majority liked a certain thing, I don't think Thor has to necessarily conform to that. He's a god. Maybe he like stuff a lot of people wouldn't be into.

The thing I do agree with, at least in part, is that Jason Aaron wrote this relationship because it would have a sort of shocking affect. I think he wrote it because it would be unorthodox and unexpected. I don't that's to be necessarily conflated with some specific liberal agenda, outside of course with Aaron just being liberal and bound to write through that lense.



You are hardly the expert on the subject.

But let me ask you this, does Thor look MORE masculine in the kisses with She-Hulk or LESS masculine?


LGDB: Oh just because you're straight doesn't make you and expert! lol And sense you asked, I don't think who you're attracted to determines whether or not you are masculine or you act masculinely. I definitely know gay guys are more more masculine that certain straight guys. I know straights dudes who are down right girly, even though the like women. I don't really think generalization is itself bad or a problem so long as you understand that generalization don't necessarily accurately apply to individuals.




Well what we do know is that prior to 2015 the VAST percentage of women irradiated with Gamma energy were still classically beautiful.


LGDB: Well... things change. I've got no problem with things changing.




50+ years of continuity. That's who.


LGDB: I mean that's kind of a weak argument. For decades of continuity things are one way, and then they're not. I also think that it isn't clear that this is an actual break in continuity. Thor having a type and then dating one person who is against his type isn't a break in continuity. People do that all the time in real life.





Thor's been attracted to beautiful women for his entire run up until the insertion of the current political agenda.

...and since you mentioned it yes my girlfriend does actually look like Jessica Rabbit (albeit with dark hair). ;\-\)


LGDB: yeah, but again I'm not sure why it's so off the table that this change or if it does change that its necessary some nefarious agenda. I think that the writers are just looking for new avenues to expand or change the character. I don't always agree with those changes, but I think that's the force at work here. Or at least the primary one. I also think, that you have a tendency that if a writer expressed different views or beliefs than you, you suggest that it's some kind of illicit political propaganda operation. Why can't it just be someone that disagrees with you about politics that happens to be a writer on Thor (or was recently). Like half the country is on the other side of the aisle.



If by compromise you mean annoying the vast majority of straight guys (98% of the population) while being tolerated by some gay guys (2% of the population) by putting Thor in a relationship with an OVERTLY masculine woman in effect making it look like a gay relationship (which of course was the whole point Aaron started this relationship in the first place).


LGDB: I'm not sure this is true. First, I'd say most people just don't care one way or another. Not caring or at least not being very annoyed probably takes the lions share here. Also I don't think that Shehulk is OVERTLY masculine. She's just really musuclar. Like if all of a sudden someone magically transformed your wife into having a body like Shehulk, she'd still have a primarly feminine attitude and set of affectation, right? Also, I hate to tell you, but a straight guy and a straight woman who happens to be really big and strong doesn't look like a gay relationship at all. \:D Shehulk's a woman Thor's a man, so they're straight. And I promise you that Aaron didn't do this to make Thor look gay! lol No that I think that would be the worst thing in the world, but that's just not how it works.



Fortunately Donny Cates has YET to sully his run with this emasculating nonsense.

Of course in one title Thor still appears like a man while in two others he is completely emasculated.


LGDB: I don't know. It just sounds to me like you've got a pretty fragile idea of masculinity. Like think about it, Thor under Aaron saves the universe a dozen times, get's in all kinds of fights, kicks ass and all that, gets his arm cut off and barely flinches. But his girl friend has big arms so he's not a man anymore? \:D What's a guy gotta do to be a guy in your eyes?



I don't think lying to them sets a good example.

LGDB: So it's a bigger lie to tell girls that a guy might be attracted to them even if they have an atypical body than it is to tell boys that they can save the universe with their mutant powers?





I don't think lying to them sets a good example.



Current She-Hulk is drawn as a monster. She is drawn no different to Hulk in a bra. Hulk is a monster and always has been described thus.


LGDB: A monster that Thor just happens to be sexually attracted to apparently lol Also she definitely looks different than the Hulk. Plus I mean, it makes sense. Girls that fight in the real world aren't usually petite looking super models. They usually have a lot of muscle on them. Like in UFC. Also they have husband that are attracted to them and love them very much. It makes sense to me.



cheers,
---the late great Donald Blake


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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,700


LGDB: okay, but like what percentage of women are irradiated with gamma energy. Probably less.


Well what we do know is that prior to 2015 the VAST percentage of women irradiated with Gamma energy were still classically beautiful.

LOVE IT! \:\)



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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,700


nt


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skrayper


Member Since: Mon Jul 24, 2017
Posts: 177



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jazzbass6


Member Since: Tue Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 835



    Quote:
    ...and 99%+ of men wouldn't find current She-Hulk remotely attractive. So who are Marvel pandering to by making her deliberately unattractive.



    Quote:
    ...and yes that's rhetorical.'



    Quote:

    LGDB: Yeah, I just don't think it's that extreme. I think you're taking a certain dominant standard of beauty and arguing that that's objective because it's popular. I don't think that's the case.



    Quote:
    Its not about me, for 50 years of the comic Thor was attracted to classically beautiful women.



    Quote:
    Insert Progessive Propaganda and all of a sudden he is dating one of/if not THE most grotesque woman in the Marvel Universe.



    Quote:

    LGDB: You make it sound like a covert agenda or something. I just think the writers at Marvel have different values than you and they're writing their values. I don't think people develop their moral beliefs with a particular intention to supplant your own. For 50 years, standards of beauty have been changing. And I'm sure they'll change some more. Thor's a ficitonal character. There's not a particular psychology constraining the targets of his attraction. He's attracted to whomever the writers have be attracted to, and that's obviously subject to any number of things including cultural standards and the personal perceptions of the writers.



    Quote:

    Individually yes, socially no.



    Quote:
    99%+ of men are not attracted to current Shulkie. So who are Marvel aiming the comic and this relationship at?



    Quote:

    LGBD: This would be more compelling if you weren't just inventing these numbers. lol But seriously, I mean, I just find it hard to believe that you don't understand that standards of beauty do have a tendency to change over a period of time. Also, I'm not really sure that it's clear that even if a majority of people in our society think a certain image of woman is attractive that a writer has to be bound to reflect that with any particular character. So even if it were the case that standards of what were beautiful and attractive were static and the majority liked a certain thing, I don't think Thor has to necessarily conform to that. He's a god. Maybe he like stuff a lot of people wouldn't be into.



    Quote:
    The thing I do agree with, at least in part, is that Jason Aaron wrote this relationship because it would have a sort of shocking affect. I think he wrote it because it would be unorthodox and unexpected. I don't that's to be necessarily conflated with some specific liberal agenda, outside of course with Aaron just being liberal and bound to write through that lense.


That's ALL Aaron knows how to write. Stunt, gimmick, and shock. He's all frosting with no cake to back it up.


    Quote:
    You are hardly the expert on the subject.



    Quote:
    But let me ask you this, does Thor look MORE masculine in the kisses with She-Hulk or LESS masculine?



    Quote:

    LGDB: Oh just because you're straight doesn't make you and expert! lol And sense you asked, I don't think who you're attracted to determines whether or not you are masculine or you act masculinely. I definitely know gay guys are more more masculine that certain straight guys. I know straights dudes who are down right girly, even though the like women. I don't really think generalization is itself bad or a problem so long as you understand that generalization don't necessarily accurately apply to individuals.



    Quote:

    Well what we do know is that prior to 2015 the VAST percentage of women irradiated with Gamma energy were still classically beautiful.



    Quote:

    LGDB: Well... things change. I've got no problem with things changing.



    Quote:

    50+ years of continuity. That's who.



    Quote:

    LGDB: I mean that's kind of a weak argument. For decades of continuity things are one way, and then they're not. I also think that it isn't clear that this is an actual break in continuity. Thor having a type and then dating one person who is against his type isn't a break in continuity. People do that all the time in real life.



    Quote:




    Quote:

    Thor's been attracted to beautiful women for his entire run up until the insertion of the current political agenda.



    Quote:
    ...and since you mentioned it yes my girlfriend does actually look like Jessica Rabbit (albeit with dark hair). ;\-\)



    Quote:

    LGDB: yeah, but again I'm not sure why it's so off the table that this change or if it does change that its necessary some nefarious agenda. I think that the writers are just looking for new avenues to expand or change the character. I don't always agree with those changes, but I think that's the force at work here. Or at least the primary one. I also think, that you have a tendency that if a writer expressed different views or beliefs than you, you suggest that it's some kind of illicit political propaganda operation. Why can't it just be someone that disagrees with you about politics that happens to be a writer on Thor (or was recently). Like half the country is on the other side of the aisle.



    Quote:
    If by compromise you mean annoying the vast majority of straight guys (98% of the population) while being tolerated by some gay guys (2% of the population) by putting Thor in a relationship with an OVERTLY masculine woman in effect making it look like a gay relationship (which of course was the whole point Aaron started this relationship in the first place).



    Quote:

    LGDB: I'm not sure this is true. First, I'd say most people just don't care one way or another. Not caring or at least not being very annoyed probably takes the lions share here. Also I don't think that Shehulk is OVERTLY masculine. She's just really musuclar. Like if all of a sudden someone magically transformed your wife into having a body like Shehulk, she'd still have a primarly feminine attitude and set of affectation, right? Also, I hate to tell you, but a straight guy and a straight woman who happens to be really big and strong doesn't look like a gay relationship at all. \:D Shehulk's a woman Thor's a man, so they're straight. And I promise you that Aaron didn't do this to make Thor look gay! lol No that I think that would be the worst thing in the world, but that's just not how it works.



    Quote:
    Fortunately Donny Cates has YET to sully his run with this emasculating nonsense.



    Quote:
    Of course in one title Thor still appears like a man while in two others he is completely emasculated.



    Quote:

    LGDB: I don't know. It just sounds to me like you've got a pretty fragile idea of masculinity. Like think about it, Thor under Aaron saves the universe a dozen times, get's in all kinds of fights, kicks ass and all that, gets his arm cut off and barely flinches. But his girl friend has big arms so he's not a man anymore? \:D What's a guy gotta do to be a guy in your eyes?



    Quote:
    I don't think lying to them sets a good example.



    Quote:
    LGDB: So it's a bigger lie to tell girls that a guy might be attracted to them even if they have an atypical body than it is to tell boys that they can save the universe with their mutant powers?



    Quote:
    I don't think lying to them sets a good example.



    Quote:
    Current She-Hulk is drawn as a monster. She is drawn no different to Hulk in a bra. Hulk is a monster and always has been described thus.



    Quote:

    LGDB: A monster that Thor just happens to be sexually attracted to apparently lol Also she definitely looks different than the Hulk. Plus I mean, it makes sense. Girls that fight in the real world aren't usually petite looking super models. They usually have a lot of muscle on them. Like in UFC. Also they have husband that are attracted to them and love them very much. It makes sense to me.



    Quote:
    cheers,
    ---the late great Donald Blake


Even at her most "roided", Joanie "Chyna" Laurer was still very feminine looking and still had an attractiveness to her despite the muscle mass. Chyna's appearance should be the basis for Shulkie, NOT Banner Hulk in drag.




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skrayper


Member Since: Mon Jul 24, 2017
Posts: 177



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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 17,564


I am confused, how is it progressive propaganda? Original She Hulk was more attractive and less muscular and got muscles over time but was still attractive. The newer version is more Hulk like I guess.

But I am not sure I see why a sterotypical progressive would want to make her strong but less attractive.

What is attractive would also be pretty subjective. Thor or gods are probably less bothered by such things than some posters are.




Look Raist bunnies...
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