Seriously, if you led a couple of hundred men and a dozen or so got killed, how p!ssed would you be?

I would have killed Daryl, Abraham and Rick. These are the most dangerous, through size, reputation or leadership position.

I would have left Maggie and Glenn (as they have a kid they would be easy to intimidate). Probably leave Aaron and Eugene as they looked suitably intimidated.

It's likely Sasha and Rosita would probably go the way that attractive women do in these situations. Michonne would probably have just been killed for trying to defend herself.

So, yeah Glenn, Carl, Eugene, Aaron, Maggie, Rosita and Sasha left. Put Glenn in charge on the understanding Maggie and thier kid would be in danger and most of the muscle and leadership dead with the rest traumatised.

You're right, it really made zero sense to leave Rick alive. Alive he is dangerous. Dead, he's no problem.

PPP

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Seriously, if you led a couple of hundred men and a dozen or so got killed, how p!ssed would you be?

I don't think the saviors lost that many. Your points stands but that number sounds awfully high.

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I would have killed Daryl, Abraham and Rick. These are the most dangerous, through size, reputation or leadership position.

No you don't want to kill Rick. Rick's too prideful to just kill. You want to break Rick. You want his people to know he's broken.

If I was Negan I would NEVER kill Rick. Every time Rick steps out of line someone else in his group dies. Rick would be a stressed out basketcase.

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I would have left Maggie and Glenn (as they have a kid they would be easy to intimidate). Probably leave Aaron and Eugene as they looked suitably intimidated.

eh...I think he was right to kill Glenn. Killing an expectant father in front of his pregnant wife really rattled them. It achieved the desired effect...not that Negan knew that at the first swing.

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It's likely Sasha and Rosita would probably go the way that attractive women do in these situations. Michonne would probably have just been killed for trying to defend herself.

Apparently in the comics Negan while having a harem does not (physically) force women into sex. He coerces them into it. Like I think in the comics Dwight's wife Sherry is part of Negan's harem...the implied threat of violence against Dwight is what keeps her there. Supposedly Negan claims to hate sexual violence....yet he has a harem of his supporters wives as his sex slaves and I think he threatened to have his men run a train on Carl.

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So, yeah Glenn, Carl, Eugene, Aaron, Maggie, Rosita and Sasha left. Put Glenn in charge on the understanding Maggie and thier kid would be in danger and most of the muscle and leadership dead with the rest traumatised.

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Seriously, if you led a couple of hundred men and a dozen or so got killed, how p!ssed would you be?


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I would have killed Daryl, Abraham and Rick. These are the most dangerous, through size, reputation or leadership position.


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I would have left Maggie and Glenn (as they have a kid they would be easy to intimidate). Probably leave Aaron and Eugene as they looked suitably intimidated.


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It's likely Sasha and Rosita would probably go the way that attractive women do in these situations. Michonne would probably have just been killed for trying to defend herself.


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So, yeah Glenn, Carl, Eugene, Aaron, Maggie, Rosita and Sasha left. Put Glenn in charge on the understanding Maggie and thier kid would be in danger and most of the muscle and leadership dead with the rest traumatised.

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You're right, it really made zero sense to leave Rick alive. Alive he is dangerous. Dead, he's no problem.

Granted you're going to be proven right in the end. But I see why Negan wanted Rick alive. Rick has someone to lose (Carl). Rick will presumably do whatever Negan says to keep Carl safe. And the more he breaks Rick's spirit the more he breaks the spirits of Rick's group.

Negan doesn't want Rick dead. He wants Rick to live as his bitch (nothing sexual) for the rest for his life. Really it's classic super villainy...villains end up going for the hurt not the kill. Villains don't want to kill Spider-Man...they want to break Spider-Man and have him acknowledge they're better than him.

To me this season sounds like it might be like Breaking Bad season 4. Where the protagonists are at the villain's mercy all season long and it's just a pressure cooker of stress.

By that logic, kill them all. But Negan's end game here isn't revenge, it's control. He wants Rick's group to be highly functioning, but subservient. He wants them to become his hunters and gatherers, so that on his monthly visits he gets half of their supplies. To do that, it helps to have a leader who is smart and capable, but broken.

Ultimately I don't think Negan gives a crap about his people who died. He will replace them with Rick's group and carry on. What he can't have is anyone challenging his authority, and right now he thinks he has Rick under his thumb.

Right, but that's a dumb villain.

Have you ever backed a cat or any animal into a corner? See how that works out for you.

PPP

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Seriously, if you led a couple of hundred men and a dozen or so got killed, how p!ssed would you be?

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I don't think the saviors lost that many. Your points stands but that number sounds awfully high.

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I would have killed Daryl, Abraham and Rick. These are the most dangerous, through size, reputation or leadership position.

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No you don't want to kill Rick. Rick's too prideful to just kill. You want to break Rick. You want his people to know he's broken.

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If I was Negan I would NEVER kill Rick. Every time Rick steps out of line someone else in his group dies. Rick would be a stressed out basketcase.

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I would have left Maggie and Glenn (as they have a kid they would be easy to intimidate). Probably leave Aaron and Eugene as they looked suitably intimidated.

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eh...I think he was right to kill Glenn. Killing an expectant father in front of his pregnant wife really rattled them. It achieved the desired effect...not that Negan knew that at the first swing.

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It's likely Sasha and Rosita would probably go the way that attractive women do in these situations. Michonne would probably have just been killed for trying to defend herself.

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Apparently in the comics Negan while having a harem does not (physically) force women into sex. He coerces them into it. Like I think in the comics Dwight's wife Sherry is part of Negan's harem...the implied threat of violence against Dwight is what keeps her there. Supposedly Negan claims to hate sexual violence....yet he has a harem of his supporters wives as his sex slaves and I think he threatened to have his men run a train on Carl.

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So, yeah Glenn, Carl, Eugene, Aaron, Maggie, Rosita and Sasha left. Put Glenn in charge on the understanding Maggie and thier kid would be in danger and most of the muscle and leadership dead with the rest traumatised.


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I think killing Rick, a father and leader of the group would bring them into control. Killing the others I mentioned due to them being dangerous (and Michonne will appear dangerous if the rape etc happened, so she too would be killed).

There would then be a group traumatised by death and sexual violence. However it is a group that appears to be very capable, but would be firmly under heel, plus it allows some of Negan's men some entertainment.

The only issue would be would if rape weakened Negan's moral authority. Hoever, after last night I don't think that's the case.

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Negan doesn't want Rick dead. He wants Rick to live as his bitch (nothing sexual) for the rest for his life. Really it's classic super villainy...villains end up going for the hurt not the kill. Villains don't want to kill Spider-Man...they want to break Spider-Man and have him acknowledge they're better than him.

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Right, but that's a dumb villain.

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Have you ever backed a cat or any animal into a corner? See how that works out for you.

Seeing how the same thing more or less went down in the comics...I would say it worked out fine for Negan. Just like it worked for numerous slave holders throughout history who didn't get a karma payback.

The slavery analogy is a good one, but Negan wants Rick under his thumb even though he is only going to come by every couple weeks or ideally send some of his men every couple weeks. Lots of time to think. Slaves lived in the same house or compound as the owner.

PPP

From a strategic point of view I agree with you, but Glenn was pretty impactful in the comics. So that one was fine. I guess they had to axe one of the main cast at some point. Probably will another at some point.

The logic that I could find would be trying to out alpha male the other guys or some stupid thing like that.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I was struck by the sharp difference between realistic behavior and the narrative necessity of the story. Realistically, Negan would kill the warriors and keep the weaker members as slaves. There is no logic in keeping a 200 pound cop who just declared his intent to kill you alive, and kill the 160 pound regular guy with a baby on the way.

However, the Walking Dead is Rick's story, always has been. All the other characters exist to give him something to love, mourn, and avenge. I noticed how they kept cutting to Rick's face as Glenn was being killed. It wasn't Glenn's story, it was the story of Rick being broken.

I disagree because the group is fiercely loyal to Rick. That loyalty would lead them to avenge his death (well, at least try). If Rick was more like Negan and they only followed him out of fear, then Negan would have taken him out. Breaking Rick is the only option because they're still going to follow his lead.

A broken leader is what Negan wants. And killing Rick would just as likely create a martyr, which would be extremely dangerous with such a competent outfit as Rick's. His group has no shortage of very good leaders to take his place. This is a tactic that has so far worked well for Negan. He's typically left the leaders and gone for the middle-management types.

Frankly, I don't think it much matters. Negan's fate was sealed the moment his men ran into Abe, Daryl, and Sasha.

Actually, I think the number is 40-something all combined (satellite dish station, the several Carol's group killed, the few that tried to kill Abe/Daryl/Sasha, etc.).

Negan's not looking for slaves though. He's looking for an already extant business to subsume. The weak slaves are easily replaced.

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Negan's not looking for slaves though. He's looking for an already extant business to subsume. The weak slaves are easily replaced.

He's looking for slaves...but he doesn't want weak ones. He wants the men who are earners or the women he can bang. You can't say he doesn't want slaves when he outright tells people he owns them. He's made himself pharaoh in the new world order.