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America's Captain 

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I choose the latter. I don't really like having all these colored teams - Blue, Gold, Red - as isolated plot streams. We can have the colored teams, each with its own leader, but they should be sub-teams under the main banner and they should all interact with one another frequently. For one thing, if something particularly cool is happening with, say, Kitty, or Rogue, we can touch on it each week. We don't have to wait a month.

Each sub-team would still have its leader. But above them all would be the overall leader of the X-Men, who, in my opinion, should either be Jean or Storm. I think Jean might get the immediate obedience a split second more quickly, but Storm is probably the better leader, because her instincts are broader. She's been a vigilante, a thief, a goddess, and a queen. She brings more to the table. Plus she combines a potential for ruthlessness like Scott with a fierce maternal protectiveness like Jean. Also, minus the Phoenix, Jean just isn't as scary as Storm, and the overall leader should be a little bit scary. If Wolverine gets out of line, Storm could (and possibly would, given the particulars) leave him a smoldering husk on the beach to reconsider his approach to life.

Multiple X-Books or Weekly X-Men comic?











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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



One x book a month. And it can't be Wolverine related.







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The Black Guardian 

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,852


Multiple titles. I really don't like everything being marketed under one name. I don't even like the colour names. It seems very stifling and unimaginative.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Multiple titles. I really don't like everything being marketed under one name. I don't even like the colour names. It seems very stifling and unimaginative.


X-Men Taupe
X-Men Burnt Sienna
X-Men Eggshell
X-Men Cerise
X-Men Cyan

Lots of creative options...





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The Black Guardian 

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,852



    Quote:


      Quote:
      Multiple titles. I really don't like everything being marketed under one name. I don't even like the colour names. It seems very stifling and unimaginative.



    Quote:

    X-Men Burnt Sienna
    ...
    X-Men Cerise...



    Quote:
    Lots of creative options...

I might make exceptions for those, if they featured Siena Blaze and Cerise respectively. \:\)
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Siena_Blaze_(Earth-616)
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Cerise_(Earth-616)

Anyway, to me, it really seems like suddenly, the New Orleans Saints are going to be Called the New Orleans Patriots Gold. The heck?! Show some team spirit! And sometimes groups flatout don't and shouldn't want to be associated with another: X-Force, X-Factor, Excalibur, etc. These team specifically didn't care for the X-Men moniker.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Anyway, to me, it really seems like suddenly, the New Orleans Saints are going to be Called the New Orleans Patriots Gold. The heck?! Show some team spirit! And sometimes groups flatout don't and shouldn't want to be associated with another: X-Force, X-Factor, Excalibur, etc. These team specifically didn't care for the X-Men moniker.


That last bit I'm totally with you on. Excalibur, X-Force, New Mutants, X-Factor and Generation X should continue to call themselves by those names - and those names should be the titles of their books.

But if you're calling yourselves X-Men then I don't see the need for all this separation. Same as with the Avengers. Why do we need adjectiveless, Uncanny, and US? Bind them all together into a weekly book and - oh wait, Marvel is already doing that.

I think it would be so cool to have a weekly Avengers book and a weekly X-Men book! It would feel like Marvel was taking over the world!

Except DC is taking over the world. But I digress.






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The Black Guardian 

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,852



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Anyway, to me, it really seems like suddenly, the New Orleans Saints are going to be Called the New Orleans Patriots Gold. The heck?! Show some team spirit! And sometimes groups flatout don't and shouldn't want to be associated with another: X-Force, X-Factor, Excalibur, etc. These team specifically didn't care for the X-Men moniker.



    Quote:
    That last bit I'm totally with you on. Excalibur, X-Force, New Mutants, X-Factor and Generation X should continue to call themselves by those names - and those names should be the titles of their books.




    Quote:
    But if you're calling yourselves X-Men then I don't see the need for all this separation. Same as with the Avengers. Why do we need adjectiveless, Uncanny, and US? Bind them all together into a weekly book and - oh wait, Marvel is already doing that.

They are really not part of the same organization. Each of those Avengers teams had a completely different mission statement. Uncanny is/was for mutant situations (and now Inhuman sitches). USAvengers was a group of outlaws (when they were AIM) that gained support by the US government. Technically, they operated under the US government and weren't under the Avengers Charter. And I still don't see a reason for the three groups to be hanging out together. We've already seen this causes friction. It makes sense only for this pseudo-crossover we're having right now.

There's some grey area in X-Men, too, like with the X-Treme X-Men. Claremont's X-Treme team wanted nothing to do with the other X-Men and didn't trust them. The more recent X-Treme team was even more afield. But yes, the 90s Blue/Gold, Astonishing, Uncanny etc. are only marketing gimmicks. As much as I loathe the current X-Men Blue being around, if they're going to be around, they deserve their own title, and this extends to the upcoming roster change, as well.

This sort of ties into my general dislike of nearly ALL adjectives. Adjectives make sense for out-of-character marketing, because different teams absolutely deserve different titles. However, adjectives don't really make sense when it comes to team names.

And this is really the thing for me-- I like multiple teams. I dislike everybody being under the same banner, for any reason. And each team needs a completely different direction, even if that direction isn't very different.

This is the price we pay for having so many interesting characters. Back in the day, one Avengers title was all we needed for the 7 or so characters, but frankly, these days, I do want to see 30-40 different Avengers characters a month. Same goes for X-Men characters, and honestly, I don't think we're seeing enough of the characters we should be seeing. Plus, I want to see those 30-40 characters split into groups of 5-10 doing completely unrelated things. Each of those unrelated things deserves a separate series and title.

Now, I'd prefer it if they could come up with some completely original team names. Milk all of those English "ex" words for all they're worth, and tack on some "X-" to innocent nouns. Give me an X-League or something. *tries to be hipster* Um... the Fleek Freaks? Nono! The FleeX! Yeah!




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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Same as with the Avengers. Why do we need adjectiveless, Uncanny, and US? Bind them all together into a weekly book and - oh wait, Marvel is already doing that.

    They are really not part of the same organization. Each of those Avengers teams had a completely different mission statement. Uncanny is/was for mutant situations (and now Inhuman sitches). USAvengers was a group of outlaws (when they were AIM) that gained support by the US government. Technically, they operated under the US government and weren't under the Avengers Charter. And I still don't see a reason for the three groups to be hanging out together. We've already seen this causes friction. It makes sense only for this pseudo-crossover we're having right now.


I absolutely do not want the three Avengers books (as we currently know them) to start up again after the weekly series currently planned ends. But as I was writing this post I realized what I was writing belonged on the Avengers board. So I'm cutting and pasting.

As for the X-books:

I don't know why Red even exists, or will exist in the near future. None of us do. Difference is, I think most of you guys will buy the book to find out. I almost certainly won't because its only draw for me are the two young ladies with claws and I can read about those two elsewhere. Jean is not a draw for me in and of herself. I need to know what her new story is and if it's boring I won't be interested in it which means I won't be interested in her. Namor interests me but not as a member of an X-team. Being on a team like the X-Men actually plays against everything he stands for in my mind. (The Defenders were totally different. Doctor Strange would call and Namor would have the option of saying no and was quite capable of saying no unless the whole world or someone he actually cared about was in imminent danger.) I'm curious as to why he'll even be bothering to be on this team but unfortunately I don't trust Marvel to give me a reason that makes any real sense. Not after the travesty of the Phoenix weekly series. I will page through the first issue in the shop, mainly to find out (a) why Jean starts a team; (b) why the claws join; and (c) why Namor joins. If the answers surprise me by being cool, I'll buy the first issue.

Blue with its new roster is a very different matter. Every single one of its members interests me. Even Gazing Nightshade, due to her story line more than her power, which to me is a bit one dimensional. But her story line is excellent! It goes all the way back to Wolverine's days as Patch in Madripoor! Oh my God I love that! And then we have Polaris, Xorn, Bloodstorm, Jimmy Hudson, and Daken. Every single one of those characters fascinates me. Sign me up. Take my money, Marvel.

Gold currently bores me. There's just no juice. The mansion in Central Park is idiotic. Old Man Logan holds no interest for me at all, except in X-Force, and only because Sabretooth is on that team and the dynamic between the two is interesting. Kurt has really never interested me, except when he was studying to be a priest, and Marvel dropped that idea. Oh, Kurt also interests me as a friend of Logan, real Logan, but real Logan isn't in this book. Storm is only in the book for the occasional cameo. Kitty interests me as (1) a friend of Logan, real Logan, who isn't in the book; and (2) a friend of Storm, who might as well not be in the book. Rachel isn't doing anything Phoenix-y (or wasn't -
maybe she is now) and her Phoenix-y-ness is the essence of what makes her cool. There's just no juice for me in this book.

Conclusion: Red and Gold are a waste of paper for me personally. The New Blue I'm awaiting so eagerly it's giving me heart palpitations! So: three X-Men books? Maybe, but I only care about one. And that's my real point. Having three X-Men books for the sake of having three means I probably will only care about one or maybe on a really good month or year, two. Me caring about all three is too unlikely to be seriously entertained. It just won't happen. Partly because of X-Force, which gives me all the claws I could ever want. There's a chance that if X-Force didn't exist, I might buy an X-Men book purely to get claws in a team setting, but as things stand, I can have claws in a team setting without any X-Men books, which means every X-Men book really has to work hard to draw me in. They have to amp up their coolness factors really high. Bloodstorm high.

A weekly X-Men book would be a whole different animal, because all the cool characters I want to read about could be in every issue! Bloodstorm, for example, and Xorn, and Polaris, they could all be in every issue! I would buy those issues. I would buy a weekly book. Marvel would get more of my money.

When real Logan returns, and Excalibur starts, things will presumably change, and I'll revisit my buying choices at that point.






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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,322


I don't understand why you consider it a good idea to put the characters that interest you in a weekly book with those that you consider a waste of paper. There's little likelihood that you would get more occasions to see them shine than you would have in a monthly title focusing on just them, the main difference would be you get to spend three to four times what you pay now (depending on whether the monthly X-book would also include the Astonishing team and whether you are buying Astonishing X-Men now).

From a storytelling and logistics POV it makes much more sense to have separate teams. I think there's a reason why the 22 pp. comicbook and teams consisting of about five or six members emerged as the well-established standard in superhero series. With more members on a team you risk neglecting some characters to a degree that could be considered damaging. With a monthly X-Men title that contains all the characters of the current three or four X-Men books (Blue, Gold, Red, plus Astonishing) you would come to a situation where you had less than a page per issue to devote to each individual X-Man (don't forget you also have to let the villains do stuff ;\-\) ). So the result would probably soon be writers considering which X-Men to get rid off, and who's to say they won't decide to consider Polaris, Xorn, Bloodstorm, Daken and/or Gazing Nightshade expendable rather than Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, Storm, Rachel etc.? I mean, I know the latter have a lot of fans, but Polaris (never the most activ X-Man)? Bloodstorm (who needs her when we have the non-vampire one on the team)? Seems to me that the characters on the new Blue team would run the greater risk of being written out...


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    I don't understand why you consider it a good idea to put the characters that interest you in a weekly book with those that you consider a waste of paper. There's little likelihood that you would get more occasions to see them shine than you would have in a monthly title focusing on just them, the main difference would be you get to spend three to four times what you pay now (depending on whether the monthly X-book would also include the Astonishing team and whether you are buying Astonishing X-Men now).


(begin flippant tone for the sake of having some fun)

The boring characters would get less and less page space because they're boring. They wouldn't be needed for filler as in the separate books. The writers would say, "Well, I can spend page space on Yawn Guy, or I can have a page where Bloodstorm bites Magneto in the neck. Hmm. Yawn Guy, vein fang, Yawn Guy, vein fang. Yup. I see my path forward."

Darwinian competition for maximum territory in the comic. Survival of the fittest. Natural selection by coolness optimization.

I know what you're thinking. Everybody is somebody's favorite character. But Yawn Guy's six fans would have to get over it. It's a jungle out there.

Oh wait - I see you've anticipated this argument.


    Quote:
    From a storytelling and logistics POV it makes much more sense to have separate teams. I think there's a reason why the 22 pp. comicbook and teams consisting of about five or six members emerged as the well-established standard in superhero series. With more members on a team you risk neglecting some characters to a degree that could be considered damaging. With a monthly X-Men title that contains all the characters of the current three or four X-Men books (Blue, Gold, Red, plus Astonishing) you would come to a situation where you had less than a page per issue to devote to each individual X-Man (don't forget you also have to let the villains do stuff ;\-\) ). So the result would probably soon be writers considering which X-Men to get rid off


Exactly!


    Quote:
    and who's to say they won't decide to consider Polaris, Xorn, Bloodstorm, Daken and/or Gazing Nightshade expendable rather than Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, Storm, Rachel etc.?


Never! Because Nightcrawler and Rachel (and Kitty) will be in Excalibur! Storm and Jean are tougher to beat, but that's OK, they can stay.


    Quote:
    I mean, I know the latter have a lot of fans, but Polaris (never the most activ X-Man)? Bloodstorm (who needs her when we have the non-vampire one on the team)? Seems to me that the characters on the new Blue team would run the greater risk of being written out...


(begin sarcasm) Right, because Gentle and Trinary are so compelling they would never be dropped. Namor too, because Namor as an X-Man is what everyone wants to read about. (end sarcasm)

So let's see. We'd have the Excalibur book and the weekly X-Men book. The latter would have the new Blue team plus Storm, Jean, All-New Wolverine and Honey Badger. Perfect!

(end flippant tone)

Cool nested pseudocode, if I do say so myself.






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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,322



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I don't understand why you consider it a good idea to put the characters that interest you in a weekly book with those that you consider a waste of paper. There's little likelihood that you would get more occasions to see them shine than you would have in a monthly title focusing on just them, the main difference would be you get to spend three to four times what you pay now (depending on whether the monthly X-book would also include the Astonishing team and whether you are buying Astonishing X-Men now).



    Quote:
    (begin flippant tone for the sake of having some fun)



    Quote:
    The boring characters would get less and less page space because they're boring. They wouldn't be needed for filler as in the separate books. The writers would say, "Well, I can spend page space on Yawn Guy, or I can have a page where Bloodstorm bites Magneto in the neck. Hmm. Yawn Guy, vein fang, Yawn Guy, vein fang. Yup. I see my path forward."



    Quote:
    Darwinian competition for maximum territory in the comic. Survival of the fittest. Natural selection by coolness optimization.



    Quote:
    I know what you're thinking. Everybody is somebody's favorite character. But Yawn Guy's six fans would have to get over it. It's a jungle out there.


And it's ruled by Bloodstorm's three fans (and Daken's two). Oh wait, that may actually be less than five people all told because of the overlap... ;\-\)


    Quote:
    Oh wait - I see you've anticipated this argument.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      From a storytelling and logistics POV it makes much more sense to have separate teams. I think there's a reason why the 22 pp. comicbook and teams consisting of about five or six members emerged as the well-established standard in superhero series. With more members on a team you risk neglecting some characters to a degree that could be considered damaging. With a monthly X-Men title that contains all the characters of the current three or four X-Men books (Blue, Gold, Red, plus Astonishing) you would come to a situation where you had less than a page per issue to devote to each individual X-Man (don't forget you also have to let the villains do stuff ;\-\) ). So the result would probably soon be writers considering which X-Men to get rid off



    Quote:
    Exactly!



    Quote:

      Quote:
      and who's to say they won't decide to consider Polaris, Xorn, Bloodstorm, Daken and/or Gazing Nightshade expendable rather than Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, Storm, Rachel etc.?



    Quote:
    Never! Because Nightcrawler and Rachel (and Kitty) will be in Excalibur! Storm and Jean are tougher to beat, but that's OK, they can stay.


Let's just say this: I feel no nostalgia for the Madripoor-era Wolverine (which apparently is the only reason to find Gazing Nightshade remotely interesting) and Xorn would for me be a reason to seriously consider not buying a book in which he's appearing (he reeks of the stench of the abomination that was Grant Morrison's run).


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I mean, I know the latter have a lot of fans, but Polaris (never the most activ X-Man)? Bloodstorm (who needs her when we have the non-vampire one on the team)? Seems to me that the characters on the new Blue team would run the greater risk of being written out...



    Quote:
    (begin sarcasm) Right, because Gentle and Trinary are so compelling they would never be dropped. Namor too, because Namor as an X-Man is what everyone wants to read about. (end sarcasm)



    Quote:
    So let's see. We'd have the Excalibur book and the weekly X-Men book. The latter would have the new Blue team plus Storm, Jean, All-New Wolverine and Honey Badger. Perfect!


Yup. I wouldn't have to spend any money on weekly X-Men because (real) Storm would not be enough to make me want to buy it. (I was one of the guys who not only did not ask for the return of Jean Grey, but who asked for her to stay dead).


    Quote:
    (end flippant tone)



    Quote:
    Cool nested pseudocode, if I do say so myself.





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The Black Guardian 

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,852


I was sorta stoked about them using Bloodstorm, but it's not even the real Mutant X Bloodstorm. This one lacks all of the cool backstory.

I see this Xorn more as the first Morrison retcon, created by Austen. I like him because I don't like Morrison's run.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,322



    Quote:
    I was sorta stoked about them using Bloodstorm, but it's not even the real Mutant X Bloodstorm. This one lacks all of the cool backstory.



    Quote:
    I see this Xorn more as the first Morrison retcon, created by Austen. I like him because I don't like Morrison's run.


Well, I'm all for undoing Morrison's run, but some of us also dislike Austen's run, so a character combining the "legacies" of two of the most disliked X-Men runs can be seen as a bit of a turn-off.




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