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Nathan Summers

Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,409
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Subj: Re: Some questions re: the Gatherers
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 at 11:12:19 pm CDT (Viewed 297 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Some questions re: the Gatherers
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 at 12:46:27 pm CDT (Viewed 12 times)

    The earlier parts of the Gatherer arc make it seem it's going to tie into the Celestial Madonna story.

I likewise felt the same but what made you think that in particular besides Swordsman?

    When Javert is shown a hologram of Moondragon he calls her Mantis,

How mistake Heather Douglas for Mantis?

    and his partner is (probably) named after Mary Magdalene

Magdalene was a weird choice of name given she was never ever referred to in RTL apocryphal material as an warrior woman.

Plus if you think about it, Mantis really fitted the role of Baigent and Leigh's gnostic Magdalene if you think how the Celestial Madonna Saga first played out!

    I never understood the deal with the Swordsman. Dane makes a big deal about Javert having the exact same fighting style as Duquesne so they're definitely counterparts, but later on they're treated like two separate people. And why two different names?

Yes my own exact thoughts at the time! So wassup?

    I always wondered about Exodus, too.

I have an actual theory about Exodus. When he was initially introduced in Fatal Attractions, a point was made of him being suggested to be Native American (by Warpath in X-Force #25 which Fabian revealed online was part of the background briefing he got from Scott Lobdell about that character).

Chris Claremont revealed in his famous 1996 interview with Ulrik Kristiansen and Tue Sorenson that a lot of his plots ideas ended up getting used after he was fired, but somewhat altered so they didn't have to credit him.

Claremont more recently revealed (in 2013 to David Rettenmaier) that as his original run began with Thunderbird, it was going to end with Thunderbird. There would be this huge, twenty year space in between of stories minus John Proudstar, but he had this epic in mind, and wanted Thunderbird appearances to be like bookends to his classic run. So what if his plot to bring Thunderbird back was altered and John became Exodus!? And the plot then got dropped!

All a mess in the end, mind you.

    When the Avengers first meet him, Dane says something about him seems familiar.

Yeah who knows what was intended there since when would Dane have likely met a Native American in the Crusades!?

    I always thought Exodus and Proctor looked a lot alike, which was probably just cuz Epting designed both of them (Thane Ector has kind of a similar look too I guess),

Yeah the hairstyle and the eyes;)

    but maybe there was originally going to be a connection? I doubt Exodus was originally supposed to be Eobar Garrington's 800 year old former bff, and he's another biblical name to boot.

See above re: Claremont

    Did Epting say anything else interesting about that Avengers team? I talked to Bob Harras at a con a long time ago and always wished I asked him more about it. Only things I remember from the conversation was that nobody told him about Bloodwraith until that Avengers Annual was already done and that the Black Knight wouldn't be in any Avengers cartoon because the people making the cartoons didn't care about the Black Knight.

But didn't he create Bloodwraith? Or was that character created by a committee? And did Dane get written out of the title because of a cartoon? But it hadn't been released by the end of the Gatherers Saga? That's all very bizarre.

All Epting confirmed was Proctor wasn't initially going to be Dane, and Bob only confirmed Rik to be Rick Jones but provided no clues about the others. He also asked the same question about Swordsman but Bob was cagey on that too.

I always felt the Gatherers Saga was intended to be the first stage of The Crossing myself, so the two villain groups were interconnected (and hated Busiek's later turn that the latter were all Space Phantoms and would love to work with interested board members to begin coming up with an alternative fix that doesn't resort to that).

Read more of my theorising here:) http://fanfix.wordpress.com
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