Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
Snowblind

In Reply To
Nathan Summers

Member Since: Fri Dec 26, 2014
Posts: 1,401
Subj: Re: Some questions re: the Gatherers
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 at 05:02:38 pm CDT (Viewed 4 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Some questions re: the Gatherers
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 at 11:12:19 pm CDT (Viewed 261 times)



    Quote:
    I likewise felt the same but what made you think that in particular besides Swordsman?


Mostly the fact that Swordsman was brought back at all. And add in the Mantis/Moondragon thing, Magdalene, and the fact that, like Epting said to you, Proctor was supposed to be something else entirely.

Also, I always had the feeling that Harras was trying to tell a story that had roots in Avengers history, after 40 or so issues where it was sort of a bunch of costumed people doing random stuff. There was a scene in the 340's I think where he has Black Widow and Cap talk a bit about how the Avengers feel like an actual team again. And the issue (380?) during the Stern/Buscema run where Jarvis reminisces while recovering after the mansion siege was guest written by Harras, so Avengers history seemed pretty important to him. Jarvis says in that issue that cleaning out Swordsman's room after he dies was the saddest part of his Avengers duty.



    Quote:
    How mistake Heather Douglas for Mantis?

It was when they first capture Javert. Something gives Dane and Natasha the idea to show him a hologram of Moondragon and he calls her Mantis and they cut away. They busted out the big font for him shouting her name so it seemed important but they never mentioned it again.


    Quote:

    I have an actual theory about Exodus. When he was initially introduced in Fatal Attractions, a point was made of him being suggested to be Native American (by Warpath in X-Force #25 which Fabian revealed online was part of the background briefing he got from Scott Lobdell about that character).

Wow, that's really interesting. Did Claremont ever talk about what his original plans for that run were?


    Quote:
    Yeah the hairstyle and the eyes;)

And those sweet silver space boots! Even Dane got in on that trend. Chrome boots, blue chain-mail, authentic Avengers branded leather jacket and permanent 5 o'clock shadow. Who was styling harder in the 90s, Dane or the Kevin Sorbo-fied Hercules? If Proctor had that look Sersi never would have bailed on him in the first place.


    Quote:
    But didn't he create Bloodwraith? Or was that character created by a committee? And did Dane get written out of the title because of a cartoon? But it hadn't been released by the end of the Gatherers Saga? That's all very bizarre.


He said Bloodwraith was created by whoever wrote that story and they didn't even ask for his input. The gimmick that year was every annual introduced a new character so they didn't seem too concerned about the annuals flowing organically from the main books or anything. I think I asked him something about the Ebony Blade and that's how it came up.

The con I met Harras at was sometime around the time #375 came out, so right around the end of the Gatherers arc. It was definitely after #363 (I won an uncut printer sheet of that foil cover by answering some trivia question) but probably before the Crossing started. The Avengers cartoon was just a rumor at the time I think, but ended up being either that Iron Man cartoon on Fox Kids or that weird AWC cartoon that had the extra fluffy Tigra and Christmas color Wonder Man in it.


    Quote:
    I always felt the Gatherers Saga was intended to be the first stage of The Crossing myself, so the two villain groups were interconnected


I see that connection too, but think it's more that some of the earlier plans for the Gatherers arc were recycled for the Crossing. That might have even been the reason the story was changed so abruptly, they decided to push back the bigger elements to tie in more books.


    Quote:
    (and hated Busiek's later turn that the latter were all Space Phantoms

I feel that way too. I get that Busiek had to clean that up, but I wish some more of the story had been left intact. Not sure what I would have come up with if I was in his shoes, though.

One cool Gatherers-era related thing in Avengers Forever, it implies that the dystopian future they're trying to prevent (with Rick Jones XIVish as emperor and guerilla GotG) is created when the Black Knight starts getting the Avengers more involved interfering in Kree/Shia'ar/etc business after Deathcry joins the team. Busiek doesn't come all the way out and say that but I always thought that was implication. Did anybody else read it that way?


    Quote:
    and would love to work with interested board members to begin coming up with an alternative fix that doesn't resort to that).


My theory is that the Marvel universe is actually one third Space Phantom, one third Skrull and one third Wolverine, and the only characters who actually exist are the Tetrachs of Entropy.


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